Dying Divide

[articuno75]

Well I have done everything that I could possibly do. Provide adequate light, water, nutrients and humidity. Everything that this Catt needed, adjusted accordingly for proper growth, to get it to thrive. IT'S DYING !!! I'm losing several leads, one by one. This big division on my Catt is being treated no different than the little ones that I have made and now I only have 2 good leads left on it. In one last feable attempt, I have removed the dead and taken the big divide down further. (This large division didn't have a real viable root system to begin with. Most of the roots was dead or rotted. What leads that died had not taken root. ) I have a picture of the dying and will post a pic of the divisions made. I'm sad.

[PhalPal]

I only have a few catts, but are you sure it's dying?? It may be sliding a little bit adjusting to being divided but it still has some viable parts. Just in case, have you taken it out of the pot and looked at the roots??

[tom499]

I can see new growth, I think.

If so all is not lost. If that part of the plant is very old then it will slowly decay. The older growths will be fueling the new growths soon to come on strong

[articuno75]

Connie~ I took it out of the pot to check it cause the leads and new growths started dying. The roots that I left to begin with were bad, but figured they would regenerate some type of new growth in place. Instead it dried up and died! I don't get it, I have this big ass pot, water average once a week and mist up to 2-3 times a day. It wasn't root rot cause the roots didn't even sit 1/4 of the way in the damn pot! (Sorry, getting upset now.) All of the divides that I have made from this plant are happy and taking root now and not having problems. I'm totally stumped. Skewer method, everything.

[articuno75]

Originally Posted by tom499

I can see new growth, I think.

If so all is not lost. If that part of the plant is very old then it will slowly decay. The older growths will be fueling the new growths soon to come on strong

This "decay" has been going now for weeks, but when the new growths and leads started to go just recently, I know there's a problem.

[PhalPal]

Jenny any professional grower will tell you that all will not thrive and some loss is to be expected. I heard that 30% of christmas trees die in the field every year, even under the best of conditions. (It's amazing what you will watch on TV when home with a bad cold) Orchids are no different. I like to know where I went wrong so I won't repeat the same mistake, but sometimes they don't make it despite our best efforts.

[articuno75]

Oh I know, but If I can't save this it will be my first orchid death that I will chalk up in my book.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

This plant looks like it has a bacterial infection. If it were me, I would pull this plant out of the pot and start cutting away all discolored material. You will probably be left with nothing but backbulb like pieces when done. Do you have any Phyton 27? This is why all of you out there should find a 2 oz bottle for sale somewhere and get it. When you need it, you need it now, not a week from now. So, you need to use a sterile tool for cutting, and maybe it would be best to heat the tool between each cut, so when you make your last cut well into fresh material, you will not be infecting the cut with whatever is progressing thru the plant. If and when you can get a systemic fungicide, or Phyton 27, which is a systemic for both fungal and bacterial problems, soak the plant in it for a while. Then I would just sphag and bag the remains. I think this is truly the only hope for this plant. What you are doing is trying to save the genetic material. It is going to be a long time before it blooms again, 2 to 3 years.

I notice that Camp Lot of Noise Tropicals is having a 25% off sale on their Fungicides, and you can get Thiophanate Methyl (Thiomyl) for $16 for 2oz. This is another great product to have on hand for emergencies.

[articuno75]

Cynthia~ Unfortunately this is the inherited Catt that I got back in the beginning of November. Yes sad to say it has a bacterial/fungal infection of some sort that I've been battling this whole time. The smaller divides have conquered and are doing great, but sadly this bigger half is not fairing well at all. I've been using Bayer 3 in 1, Physan, Peroxide and Brookn's special dishsoap mix. I think it just look at me and coughed and said "this is it..." I have tried everything.

[jerrymeola]

I do not think the plant is sick or that you did anything wrong.

When a Cattleya gets old and overgrown, the plant chocks out the middle of the plant and kills it off. The new growth just fights for survival and wins.

When I divide a plant like this, I discard the middle old pseudo-bulbs. You cut off all the growing eyes when you removed the new growths. The old bulbs you left had no young roots to feed it and no growing eyes to initiate new growth. sometimes you can initiate new growth with a lot of time and effort but it is not worth it.

Cattleya grow in one direction along a rhizome. I remove old (over 3-4 years) pseudo-bulbs and discard them.

[brookn]

I am sad about this plant, I thought that it would get over it's issues. Have you divided yet, and if so, how is it?

[articuno75]

I went ahead and divided it down There simply wasn't any roots growing. I'll post pics of the aftermath.

Now on the other hand all of the divides that I made from before are kicking butt, rid of fungi and bacteria, springing roots, taking foot and greened up.

All in all, now I have made a total of 12 divides of this plant. This includes the two that were given to you and Cj. With this last divide that I did though, I don't think it will make it. We'll see. I'm not giving up just yet. Total determination here. (either that or total stubborness, LOL!)

How is your monter doing?
Cj, is yours doing well too?

[rmt135]

Best of luck & may you succeed Jenny.

[epiphyte]

I've purchased (for really cheap) several Cattleyas that were in the same condition and what I tend to notice is that the potting material, usually bark, has broken down which prevents good drainage which leads to wet conditions which encourages rot. The life span of bark is considerably shorter than the time it takes a Cattleya to get that size. There are quite a few folks who choose rocky mediums for that reason. Personally, I prefer to just mount my orchids and not have to worry about repotting.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Jenny, if you have pieces of this that are doing well, then count your blessings. To get a big plant again is just a mater of time and good culture. You should not feel bad about losing a piece of a plant. You have to learn the rule of a good orchid grower, and that rule is to have patience. What was will come again, if you have the genetic material in good shape.

[brookn]

My monster piece is doing well. It is still pretty much plastic, just sitting there not doing much. I have noticed swelling around the eyes, but one has a pretty good ding on it, and I am not sure it will produce anything. Basically right now it is like watching paint dry, great patience is needed to say the least. About once a day I pick it up and look it over, but I think it is just overkill lol.

[articuno75]

I'm surprised you don't have any new roots starting. Everyone of the smaller divides have little nubby starts...

[brookn]

Well, I have not looked today, so I may be surprised. I have to tell myself to leave it alone, but I love it (I am going to worry the poor thing to death at this rate).

[11Orchid126]

I think it's worth a try giving it a couple of doses of liquid seaweed which promotes roots and growth. You might also give it one dose of a teaspoon to a gallon of some whisky, which is pure sugar that the plant can absorb immediately.

[brookn]

Aha! I did not check last night, but today I can see where the new growth is starting. There is growth with the damaged area also. I counted 3 growths starting. Whoo hoo!
No new roots yet, but I imagine the new parts are taking a lot of it's energy right now.

11orchid, I actually soaked it in a revive recipe when I recieved it, that had water, sugar, epsom salt, superthrive, and dish soap. I found it somewhere on the forum, and it has worked wonders for me with bare root dried out plants that I recieved in the mail. I knew it was a matter of time, the newest growth when I received it was damaged unfortunately, and eventually had to be taken off (I was sad, as it had a sheath on it).

[PhalPal]

Brook do you have that recipe handy? I cannot seem to find it on the forum and it would be a good one to print out and have handy. While you are at it and we are talking about recipes......how about your cinnamon concoction as well????

[articuno75]

Connie hang on it took me an hour to find it.

[articuno75]

Mix well 3/4 cups of granulated sugar, 1 finely crushed Centrum vitamin with minerals tablet, 1/2 teaspoon of epson salt, and 1 teaspoon of liquid dish detergent per gallon of water. Submerge your plant in this solution, pot & all in for 4 hours, then drain, Take a towel thats been wetted with this solution & wrung out until just moist, & wrap your plants in this moist towel over night in a warm (70-75 degrees)place. you'll find your plant revived by the next day! unwrap your plant, & run tempid water over the plant & planting mix well, to remove the residue sugar.

[articuno75]

1 tsp. cinnamon extract
5 -10 drops of phosphate free dishsoap, ie: Dove, Dawn, etc.
1 1/2 -2 cups of room temp water

This recipe is excellent for fighting fungi, cleaning leaves and mite teterant. (Add more water, adjust accordingly.)

[brookn]

Thanks Jenny, I was busy at Hogwart's Extreme with my son, then went to ebay. Sorry Connie I should have checked in. I adjust the recipe according to need, my mood, the weather (lol),...so far it has just done beautiful things for the plants. For bug spray I just take the original recipe and then fill the sprayer with water. I add cinnamon extract by smell when mixed(how scientific), and I use the red colored extract, I like to get the spray a nice opaque pink color. On the revive recipe I replace the centrum with Superthrive.

[slippery_biscuit]

Just read this thread... is that sphag moss in the pot?

[PhalPal]

Thanks Jenny and Brooke!!!! Your efforts are most appreciated. I wonder if Geritol, the liquid form, would be a good replacement for the vitamin ingredient??? Sometimes I buy it if I'm really feeling run down because of all the iron in it, about 50 mgs/teaspoon. Then again, the vitamins in it would be helpful but not all that iron. Just thinking anything liquid would dissolve better and be more absorbable?? They do have Centrum in liquid form I think.

Thanks again for the recipes - printed and saved. You girls are great!

[brookn]

Connie Superthrive is liquid plant vitamins. I use 3 or so drops for the revive recipe in place of the centrum. If you use the geritol just do a comparison of the ingredients of it and the centrum. I like to think that I am not great, just experimental and frugal (poor lol).

[articuno75]

Originally Posted by slippery_biscuit

Just read this thread... is that sphag moss in the pot?

Just covers the top layer of bark like a blanket. Between the rhizomes and bark.

[brookn]

It's official, one of the spots where I could see the new growth coming has popped up and is growing!!!!!!

I am so excited. I decided to start fertilizing it the last watering (I had not fertilized it at all) as looked like it might finally be doing something. I thought it would be too much after being divided, shipped, and while it was trying to acclimate. Now I am glad that I waited, because the plant seems to finally be happy with being here.

Yes! I am not killing it, I thought for sure that I would.

[rmt135]

Congratulation Brooke. Great work. It just give you so much satisfaction after all the effort.

[brookn]

Thanks rmt it was worth all the effort. That poor plant has been picked up and examined so many times, it's a wonder that it decided to grow. I can't wait to see what it does next.

[articuno75]

YAY !!!

It's alive !!! ALIVE !!!

Two green thumbs for you!!!

[evagentry]

congratulations Brookyn, Ive been following this post and was happy for you that your plant is showing new growth, its hard not to worry when you want a plant to grow so badly, I am glad things worked out.

[brookn]

Whoo hoo it's alive! Yes! Getting bigger every day, this is so cool. Thanks evangentry, it was a plastic plant for a long time.

[Orchidflowerchild]

Originally Posted by articuno75

I went ahead and divided it down There simply wasn't any roots growing. I'll post pics of the aftermath.

Now on the other hand all of the divides that I made from before are kicking butt, rid of fungi and bacteria, springing roots, taking foot and greened up.

All in all, now I have made a total of 12 divides of this plant. This includes the two that were given to you and Cj. With this last divide that I did though, I don't think it will make it. We'll see. I'm not giving up just yet. Total determination here. (either that or total stubborness, LOL!)

How is your monter doing?
Cj, is yours doing well too?

Oh, yes. My division has a 2" new growth and is making roots.

-Cj

[articuno75]

That is sooo awesome! I can't wait to see these guys flourish and bloom. This is way cool.