I chopped off the roots...

[slippery_biscuit]

A few recent threads have spurred this one. Lots of viewpoints on root horticulture, and references to removing all the roots. On 12/23 I removed a perfectly good Hawaiian Wedding cattleya from its pot. Don't think I found one bad root, but brought the nippers to bear regardless. Here are the pictures and we will see what happens.

One thing to note is that there were a few very small new roots coming out already, so the timing of this looks to fall within Cynthia's guidelines.

[kot444]

O my god!
I read about trimming roots for different genera when repoting, but still tend to leave everything that is alive..... Lets see.
Natalia

[MSPProductions]

Slippery B, looks good, I tend to trim a little tighter but you should what others say.
I have a couple of Hawaiian Wedding Songs too, what a great orchid. What are you going to plant them up in?

[exasperatus2002]

If the roots arent rotting what purpose does it serve to give the orchid a haircut?? Are there benefits to this method than just replanting it as is in a new pot? What orchids does this method serve best?

[kmarch]

slippery biscuit,

I apologize for slacking off in my forum moderation and not correcting this bad advice in time to prevent you cutting all the roots off your plant.

I hate to say this but the only thing you've accomplished here is to cut off the plant's primary means of taking in water and nutrients. The plant will be set back. There's no justifiable reason to remove perfectly healthy roots from an orchid.

Were members actually recommending that people cut all the healthy roots off their orchids? If so I apologize for not doing my moderator duty and clearly correcting this. It's not sound cultural advice. If someone can refer me to the posts that recommended this, please direct me to them and I'll correct them.

Again, my apologies for not catching this earlier and thus preventing this unfortunate move.

[slippery_biscuit]

No apology is necessary kmarch. I understood you quite well, I believe. Minimal upside with much larger potential downside. This is of my own free will . May have set the plant back, but I have plenty of others to occupy my time, and a second HW Song to enjoy. Let's just see what happens here. Reminds me of the fun I had in lab back in college!

Note pending results... Whatever the outcome, it is truly only applicable to this plant at this time. I don't want to lead anyone into thinking that should lots of roots pop out, this would work on your orchid at home. It is just something I wanted to do as I've heard a reference to it more than once, and am just madcap enough to do it.

Explanatory footnote: I learned most of my sociology, humanities, etc after college. 'Till then it was all varieties of science. Jack of all Trades, Master of None sort. Degree in Zoology, lots of other stuff including botany in there. Point being made is if you knew me, you would realize I'm just trying to figure out how this works, this orchid thing. Lab 201... we are experimenting with orchid root growth. Perhaps we'll learn something. My biggest regret is the lack of a control plant. My second HW Song is mounted and not available for use. Oh well. We press on.

I have a strong suspicion that with this subject, the cutting off of good roots, everybody has valid and true information.

MSPProduction: I left a bit on as there was the beginning of some new roots emerging. Wanted to leave those intact. This was done with pruning shears, not the pointy little ones for nipping a leaf here or there. Target for the orchid may be a large piece of cork.

exasperatus2002: The purpose for this whack job is of experimental nature. Should the plant fare well, then one benefit will be moving a mature plant from a pot to a mount, where the new roots will attach themselves. To put a seedling on a mount and reach the size of this plant would take several years.

cheers!

[wieb]

I'm curious to see your results, too. Thus, I am subscribing to this thread. Please keep us posted.

When root pruning trees (to move), or bonsai (pot root bound), or shrubs (to move), you don't remove all the roots ... energy reserves are stored there. They root prune wisteria to get a non-flowering plant to flower (the stress induces them to flower -- a survival mechanism is postulated). I suspect the experts, like Kmarch, are probably spot on on this one, that removing so many of the roots will cause irreversible stress and possibly (likely?) death. But you never know. In my brief readings on orchids (I'm new to this), I think I read that there are some energy reserves stored in the pseudobulbs. Hopefully these reserves will be enough to aid in some new root growth ... maybe to the detriment of blooms for quite some time. I think it is an interesting test. And thanks for sharing. Please keep us posted.

But just so it is clear, I am NOT advocating the cutting off of all the roots from any orchids ...

[fred]

just another footnote to this thread for all the Newbies
the trimming ( cutting off ) of healthy roots from your orchid is NOT RECOMMENDED.

[Anton]

I wait with bated breath.

You're a braver man than me Gungadin.

[patticake]

I am curious to hear of the out-come. I too, like to experiment, but don't think I would be quite so drastic!

[Aleksa]

Oh godness.. Why did you do that?

[jerrymeola]

I see a lot of reaction to this experiment.

The theory behind cutting roots drastically is that it induces new root growth. While the roots on this plant were healthy none were growing. This is normal.

I am not so quick to condemn your action as Kmarch and Fred. While I seldom cut off all roots that look that good, I often cut Cattleya back to to where they look like yours when they have at least 1/2 bad roots. I find it does not set the plant back very much. Many bloom next blooming season as normal and most are usually pot bound in under six months.

The biggest problem I find is to keep the plant stable in the pot so that the new roots are not rubbed raw and broken while growing. I usually pot clip the plant on top of the pot and do not cover the rhizome.

I found this very healthy plant in my greenhouse last month I did not recognize and saw on the back of the tag '10/06 no roots'. It was part of a large number of
re-pots. It was pot bound and about twice the size from when it was cut. This was not the first 'no root plant' from this group that was pot bound from nothing. Maybe 15% of the re-pots where the roots were not cut rotted and died. Unfortunately I was not keeping records and do not know how many of each I made.

It was the recommendation for many years that when re-potting that you cut all roots to a length no more than 2/3 the height of your pot. The theory being that the long roots do not bring water all the way to the plant and tend to rot. I find this happens all too often when I leave too many roots.

You may well find several of the old leaves and bulbs yellow and shrivel as the plant steals nutrients for the new growth.

Many commercial growers when dividing Cattleya and cutting roots leave the plant unpotted for several hours to a day or more to harden the roots.

This thread interests me so much it is the first ever to which I have subscribed.

[digitalgate]

oh my goodness. I dont dare to watch. But i like to see this experiment

[Aleksa]

I think that this plant will not die. From my experience, Cattleyas can live for a months without the roots. This plant have a lot of pbulbs and it will make a new growth and roots... In this period, high humidity is beneficial.

[wieb]

slippery_biscuit,
If you are willing, could you please let us know what else you have done or are planning to do with regards to this Hawaiian Wedding cattleya? Have you or are you: going directly back into a pot? placing it in a polyethylene bag to increase the humidity for a period of time (in or out of the pot)? What type of medium are you putting it back in? What about lighting in near term; and what type? Typical humidity it will be living in once it is back on the shelf?

It would be interesting for me to see what others would do in such a situation to revive an orchid if they were faced with a similar situation. You never know when you may find yourself in such a rescue situation (I nearly killed my 1st orchid; severe root rot due to overwatering). The recommendations above regarding high humidity and good stabilization until roots can take hold seemed excellent to me. What would the experts do?

[kmarch]

A bit of clarification that may prove useful:

1) The pruning of other plants' roots has been mentioned. It is worth pointing out that a root is not a root is not a root. Trees and shrubs have terrestrial roots while cattleyas have epiphytic roots. They're different and they don't respond the same when pruned.

2) I don't necessarily think the damage is irreversable i just think the plant will be set back. Slippery mentions that some new roots have started, this is of course good. The plant will soon be able to take in water and nutrients and will not have to rely entirely on its reserves for so long. This new root growth will lessen the stress on the plant and will hopefully lessen the degree to which it is set back.

3) Jerry notes that rootsless plants in his care have not seemed to suffer much. It's worth noting that as Jerry is a commercial grower, he likely has excellent conditions in which he grows his plants. Excellent conditions will certainly lessen the stress on a plant and speed its recovery.

4) While I will admit my initial reaction of complete horror may have been a bit over the top, I believe it is worth reiterating, especially to all of us hobby growers, that removing healthy roots from a healthy orchid is never recommended.

[brookn]

I find this thread very interesting, and I cannot wait to see what the results might be. I experiment with my plants sometimes, so that I can see for myself if tips from other sources will also work for me. Good luck with your growing, and please keep us updated.

[patticake]

I too, am looking forward to the results from this experiment. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. Other times, that's NOT the way to go. With african violets, people would be horrified when I gave a demonstration on cutting back on leaves and blooms & bloom-stalks! -BUT-There was a bountifull end !! It was for the good of the plant, and it showed up eventually! Every plant has a different way of being treated and how that will affect the outcome. You have to get a "feel" for each plant's personallity! I'm thrilled with this thread- Keep it going.

[evagentry]

Very interesting experiment, not only regarding the fate of the orchid, but also to see the different reactions of member geeks,like other have said I too experimented in small ways but not this radical yet!

[Nancy]

My reaction is one of horror. I went through a lot with a sick little cattleya with no roots. After three months it seems to be pulling out of it. The new growth is growing and it has its first root. It just seems that this plant has struggled so. Mistakes in culture happen and sometimes a grower must cut off roots. I think if I were you I would've waited until I found a plant that needed special techniques to save it, not created one.