I Got A New Greenhouse!!!

[dionysus]

i got to celebrate x-mas early this year with one side of my family because i am going up to detroit, and to a large amount of cheering, i got a greenhouse! it is a hobbist greenhouse, and i was wondering if anyone had any suggestions about orchids in them. i will have a seperate smaller greenhouse with a shade and a flourescent light in it for plants in need of TLC. any help is apperciated. thanks and merry christmas!!!

[sandra]

Congratulations dionysus. What a nice Christmas gift. Enjoy and have fun filling it!

Seasons Greetings and enjoy your holiday.

[pikevi]

Congratulations, dionysus.

What size is it?

Good luck with 'stocking' it

[robb]

a greenhouse would be wonderful, though with our climate (read, temperature swings) it would be expensive, here.

[pikevi]

robb: You are so right. It is even worse here.

I checked around a bit.

A 6m X 9m (> 20' X 30') will be $40,000- $100,000. The high end one is with fully automated 'climate' control and with a walk-through to the main house via the patio door or basement door. And apparently they use a special plexiglass for the building the high end one.

I have collected about $40 , so far and when I get a sufficient amount I will think about it... in another 300 years..hehehehe. No wonder I like to be a Dracula/Vampire

[dionysus]

it is 6x8 ft ad it is 6'6'' at it's peak height.

[fred]

Congrats with your Christmas gift.
now you can have some fun filling the Greenhouse full of Orchids
It would be nice to see some pics soon

make sure you leave enough room for your bed as well

[pikevi]

Thanks dionysus.

There will be plenty of room for Cymbidiums as well

[articuno75]

Oh how awesome! Now take your time filling it or you'll have to ask the Easter Bunny for another one, LOL. BTW, I was going to ask if you was a member of the TROS in Ft. Wayne?

[dmacch]

How about some pics of the greenhouse

[kmarch]

How are you going to heat it in winter?

[slippery_biscuit]

Yes, about that heat. Here is what I've done with a 6x12. At first I thought to just keep the chill off. As it quickly filled with plants (close to 100) I ended up doing my best to simulate an intermediate environment. 55 to 60 deg winter nights and a bump to around 70 for daytime temp. We have had almost continuos low 30 deg nights for a couple of months now. Highs in the forties. Recently I removed the two 1500 watt (120v) heaters and installed a single 240v 2500 watt heater. Power consumption went from 25 amps to about 11 amps. Halved the power consumption and it is warm inside. With all the cloud cover and short days a 400 watt MH boosts the light inside.

It is nice that your greenhouse was a gift. You'll be spending your $$$ on plants!

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Hi Dionysus. Sounds like your GH is exactly half the size of mine and same height. My winters have been down to 10F so far (5 years). I insulate with bubble wrap. I have 2 1500 Watt heaters, and can barely maintain 60F with baffling on all vents in winter. Check out my picture site of my GH. You'll see the baffling in some of the last few pictures.
Temporary Greenhouse Photo Gallery by Admiral Schnitz at pbase.com

[dionysus]

sorry i havn't posted back on this one, i have been busy the past couple of days. i do fear the winter, we tend to get down into the 10's in feb. but with this global warming, you never can tell. next sunday it is suppossed to hit somwhere near 50 degrees! i am so ticked abot that. that means the snow is going to melt, and winter is annoying without any snow. but back to the GH. i like the bubble wrap idea. we have a small kerosene heater, but just to be more safe(and earth friendly) i plan to buy an electric one at walmart this summer/fall when they're cheapest.

right now it isn't set up, but i will take pics withmy new digital camera when it is set up in spring. i am going to have to hold off on orchid binging this year and see how well the greenhouse holds heat. but after that....hehehe... it will be filled with plants VERY soon after winter ends. i will have to send pics of the insides too! i am just salivating over all the fun i am going to have.

oh, i have a question. my dad, being a control freak and overlord of know-it-alls, says that a foundation needs to be layed before we can set it up. he's talking about tearing up the soil and laying gravel, sand and top soil. is this nessicery?

[dionysus]

whoops, sorry. i forgot to answer your question articuno 75. i will have to answer it with another question though. what is TROS? there is a three rivers orchid society, and that's all i know of. where is portland in relation to FW? i live 20 or so miles north Auburn

[PhalPal]

Congratulations!! What a great gift. I hope the person who purchased this for you knows the expense to follow in filling every square inch of it, after all, THAT will be their responsiblity as well don't ya think??

[dionysus]

in a way, i suppose. i think that i would prefer to buy my own plants. if you buy your own plants, they are totally your own, whereas if someone else buys it for you, it is not a piece of you. you know what i mean? it's kind of like buying a house. you don't want someone to buy the interior, right? same with a greenhouse in my opinion. however, if they want to fund what i am buying, i am totally fine with that!

[articuno75]

Originally Posted by dionysus

whoops, sorry. i forgot to answer your question articuno 75. i will have to answer it with another question though. what is TROS? there is a three rivers orchid society, and that's all i know of. where is portland in relation to FW? i live 20 or so miles north Auburn

TROS= Three Rivers Orchid Society. Portland is about 50 miles south of Ft. Wayne. (The true boonies)

[pikevi]

dionysus: I am not sure how cold it gets in Auburn,Indiana. Your dad may be right in suggesting a foundation. In fact I have been thinking of building a GH myself(- I am game for many things) with some hired help. While researching it I found that the foundation has to go down to the 'frost line' (depth where the atmospheric temperature has no effect). It is 42" in Toronto. Yours may not go that deep. You also could use just posts ( like fence posts) to re-inforce the structure than having a full foundation.{cost in Toronto:- $20 per post (with auger) plus materials or $250/per hour for a back-hoe plus materials}

If the foundation does not go that deep it will crack or shift and will be useless. But if you are not thinking of automation of controls you could try without the foundation. I have left one of my cheap ($200) hexogonal GH outside this winter,zipped up, just to see how it handles down to -20C (-4F).
It is made entirely of plastic.

If you want a permanent structure and if it is not too costly your dad's advice is the best.

I hope we will get more input from others soon.

Good luck

[dionysus]

if it is at all possible, can i take it out from the foundation when i get my own house? i really want to take it with me when i go.

[pikevi]

I don't think so. Foundation will have to stay. But I am sure that the rest of the structure (above ground) can be built in such a way (modules) that it can be moved. I am not a civil or structural engineer but I am almost certain that modular greenhouse can be built . The price may be higher.

Usually there will be 'home-shows' in spring and if you visit them and talk to the vendors they will give you some estimates. They are usually quite pricey but you can get some ideas.

Good luck.

[articuno75]

Instead of "laying foundation" you could dig a sand pit and lay with rock or pebbles. That's what a neighbor of mine years ago did when she had a greenhouse built. It was cool. There was no foundation and it was attached directly to the house. She only dug about 6-8 inches down and lined with so many inches of sand, then with pebbles and patio tile. The structure was built around this. When she watered her plants it went straight to the ground, no problem. Temps stayed around 86 degrees constantly all year.

[pikevi]

That is a great idea, articuno75. Was that in Indiana too?

[slippery_biscuit]

My 6x12 greenhouse is on a "foundation" of used railroad ties. Sitting in a very shallow trench, just a couple of inches, they are wide enough to allow the frame to sit on the top (screwed into the ties) and support the floor. I've used 5/4 cedar decking. The decking is screwed into the ties with good sized gaps between boards to allow debris to fall through.

This could all be undone, loaded into a pickup and set up at a new site. Don't know if the cost is more or less, but it wouldn't be much difference than a more permanent foundation. And it is portable.

Something to consider....
happy new year!

[articuno75]

Originally Posted by pikevi

That is a great idea, articuno75. Was that in Indiana too?

Yeah, actually just off of the Ohio state line. Her Greenhouse is beautiful !

[articuno75]

Also something to check into. Orchidflowerchild built a greenhouse here a while back. Her's is also a portable set-up. If you can find the thread on it, I'm sure she explains how she did her floors. If I'm not mistaken, I think she did hers in mulch.

[dionysus]

if you want a pic of the greenhouse and additional info, go to Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices and search the product code 47712.

[pikevi]

Thanks for the link.

I am sorry I was visualising something different. It seems like slippery_biscuit's suggestion would be well suited for the one you are thinking of. And to the 'floor' you could have what articuno75 suggested.

Good luck.

[slippery_biscuit]

I checked your link... That is a facsimile of what I have. Just a bit smaller and shorter. Suggestions come to mind. If you have the skill and means to build an 12" - 18" wall to raise your greenhouse height I think you would be glad you did. Benefits include extra headroom, space to hang plants, room for a light (planning ahead here), room for misting or water systems, room for more plants (did I say that already?), and lastly, room for more plants.

Or put it up as it looks. You will enjoy it for sure.

[dionysus]

i could use brick and mortar to do that maybe. not sure my parents would be too up to that though. i could dig a few feet into the ground and cover only a foot and leave teh rest for open space.

[slippery_biscuit]

No, you don't want to dig a big hole. Just put it up and put it to use. Later, if you gotta have more height, you could move it temporarily and lift it (with help from friends) up onto a short pony wall.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

I had a sunken floor in my first GH, 11 x 14, but only because I leveled a sloping yard, and the GH was at the low end of the leveled yard. So, that meant I had a nearby low area to drain the water to. But, occasionally I had a blockage in that drain, and had a swimming pool when I came out after the auto watering system finished, which worked by turning the greenhouse into a rain forest with about 40-50 misters going for an hour.

[dionysus]

sounds likemy kind of greenhouse! i love humid greenhouses! especially when they are really over grown.

could i lay potting soil down and grow either moss or low grass in the greenhouse just for asthetics? or would that be too difficult?

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Growing anything on the floor of the greenhouse is an open invitation to snails and slugs. All GH floors are places where 'stuff' collects fast. Old potting mix that gets knocked loose, old leaves, you name it. My next GH will have a concrete floor that I can hose clean. My last GH with a gravel floor, after 25 years, was a bark floor mixed with old broken labels, twist ties, dried leaves, perlite, vermiculite, charcoal, bits of plastic pot shards, even some clay pot shards. It was disgusting.

[dionysus]

sounds like fun!!! i plan to keep my greenhouse as neat as possible, if it's possible!lol

[tom499]

I would strongly agree. The tidier the GH the less chance of fungi, viruses, rodents etc.

Mice love old bags of potting mix for nesting. Damp + soil = insect breeding grounds.

We only keep the plants in our GH. all other orchid utensils etc are stored in the garage so as to keep the GH as empty as possible.

Tom499

[cindiras]

Yumm! A greenhouse! What would I do in my zone 5 central Iowa location? Butt one side against the house for sure. Probably lay landscape fabric down over a slight slope (away from the house for drainage) and pea gravel covering the fabric. Then I would peg the structure down with mobil home ties (wind). That would make a temporary, easily removable, foundation. Frost heave might cause some twisting and wracking of the greenhouse over time, but the pea gravel could be raked out from under a high point, or shoveled under a low point to relevel the structure if necessary. Gosh, I have a basement egress window. I could place the door opening of the greenhouse against the window, put steps inside the house, walk in and out of the greenhouse without ever having to go out into the blustery winter wind... Thanks guys! You've set my imagination to working here- Dionysus, I hope your imagination has taken flight, too and you can put some of the idesa from these amazing people to work!

[dionysus]

i like your idea, but not too sure that my parents might. they are adamant about the whole "Make it look clean thing." but oh well. if i have to diasassemble it entirely and cutit off the ground to take it with, i will. lol

[articuno75]

You could line with diatomite gravel to ward off the snails and slugs. You can also get it in a dust form for treatment if necessary.

[PhalPal]

Jeny do you mean diatomaceaous earth?? (garden variety not the pool store stuff)

[dionysus]

how much would that cost for 2cu liters? and doesn't that get rid of neematodes? or snails and slugs and gnats too?

[Orchidflowerchild]

Originally Posted by articuno75

Also something to check into. Orchidflowerchild built a greenhouse here a while back. Her's is also a portable set-up. If you can find the thread on it, I'm sure she explains how she did her floors. If I'm not mistaken, I think she did hers in mulch.

Actually, I opted not to have mulching. What I did was pick the most level place in my yard and set 4' rebar posts into the ground one for each pvc 'leg' of the outside perimeter. FOr the inside legs, I drove 2' lengths of smaller diameter PVC to hold the bench legs stable. Before I put the sections of greenhouse onto the inside posts, I layed out a tripple layer of road fabric, which is free draining, due to the open weave, durable, and easy to clean. Then I just cut small holes in the fabric to drive the PVC posts for the inside legs, and slipped them over the posts. As a bonus, it absorbs and radiates quite a bit of warmth (being black), when the sun is hitting it. The biggest reason I decided to stick with the road fabric is that it is very easy to clean, I just go in and sweep out the GH, once in a while.

My main motivation for not building a real foundation or frame in which to set the GH is that I will be moving from here, within a coule of years, for grad school. I needed a greenhouse that is easily dismantled and packed up for a move that could very well be across country. Also, I'd rather bang a rebar pole into the ground than have to deal with a friggin post-hole digger and concrete. I really hate working with cement of any sort. It's heavy, messy, and it dries your skin out BAD, if you get in contact with it.

Pics:

Here's the frame. There are 12 rebar poles driven in the ground, one for each of the eight frame legs on each long side and one each for both sides of the door and the two middle posts in the back wall.



Here is the door side of the completed greenhouse, with my wind baffle made of road fabric, as well (the black aroudn the door).



ANd the other end wall:



Interior:



-Cj

[articuno75]

Originally Posted by PhalPal

Jeny do you mean diatomaceaous earth?? (garden variety not the pool store stuff)

Yess that's it!! (Sorry for the brain fart) The stuff is great and it's a earth friendly way of killing just about every little booger you can think of... Great for fleas and ticks too. What it does is dry the bugs from the inside out to the point their exoskeleton falls off. (Gross!)

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Pool store stuff worked for me.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Cj, your greenhouse looks like it is the same material I used for my cold frame, but I had the advantage of being able to attach it to the GH for rigidity. Next time around you may want to check out car port fittings. I got them at a Chinese tool supply. They were very cheap, on a par with your PVC fittings, and a great deal sturdier than the PVC. I used redwood 2 x 2's bolted to the carport tubing to allow the plastic sheeting to be stapled down. I tried using PVC on a shade structure, and had to give up because it was so flexible.

Temporary Greenhouse Photo Gallery by Admiral Schnitz at pbase.com

[Orchidflowerchild]

It's actually pretty sturdy piping. It also has a whole bunch of cross-wires to prevent the frame from moving in the wind too much, and hell, if my fat butt can hang from the crossmembers, I think it'll be okay.

-Cj

[dionysus]

tha twas my idea, but here in IN, we have terrible winter weather, with 50mph winds and heavy wet snow(not lately though). so i had to go to an alternate option. ie a real greenhouse.

about the diotomaceous earth, that's nasty!!! what's the difference between pool and garden stuff? expense, earth friendlyness, effectiveness?

[PhalPal]

I think the garden variety is more fine powder and also way more expensive. I have had good luck with the pool stuff also, but I guess it depends what you are trying to get rid of.

[Orchidflowerchild]

Originally Posted by dionysus

tha twas my idea, but here in IN, we have terrible winter weather, with 50mph winds and heavy wet snow(not lately though). so i had to go to an alternate option. ie a real greenhouse.

Hehe, the plan, when I move up to oregon/washington (whichever university I can get into and pay for), is to replace the thin platic sheeting with weather-sealed twin or triple-wall polycarb. Well, and probably a sturdier foundation. Pacific fronts, and all....

As it turns out, the PVC framework is wonderfully easy to modify.

ALso, fittings are universal. Greenhouse expansion is a matter of getting some pipe cut at home despot, building a new section, and popping it together. The application of a few screws and voila! More GH space.

Ever the frugal student,

-Cj

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Well, when I put mine together, I cut the tubing to make a short GH, because we have extremely strong winds up here. We are on a ridge, and the wind never stops blowing. Its Santa Ana winds most of the time. We also have snow. Had about 10" in one day last year. There is enough heat escaping, probably by radiation, to melt the snow off the top pretty fast. Since I used agricultural bubble insulation sandwiched between 2 sheets of agricultural plastic sheeting, the GH is very well insulated. During winter, because of the constant blowing of the wind, I baffle the wall vents, and the place is as snug as a bug in a rug. Only problem is that I have to have powered ventilation or it gets too hot in there in the middle of winter to cook plants. Last winter, I had the ventilation off for 2 days (operator error) and lost a half dozen plants, and still have some that have not yet recovered. I just recently bought a solar powered vent fan from Harbor Freight to take care of any power outage in the future.

[PhalPal]

OFC - Did you know that PVC is easliy cut with a hack saw?? It would save you some time and trouble to cut it yourself.

[dionysus]

actually, you don't even need a hack saw. a regular old handsaw will do. but i think that i would have someone else cut it for me, if possible. it's just too dangerous with a rolling item and a saw. we learned that with dowel rods in shop class last semester.

[PhalPal]

Dionysus - the hacksaw is much smaller and handy, which is why I use that versus a regular saw. It takes 10 seconds to get through a 3/4 inch pipe and I haven't had a problem with it rolling around at all. And just in case I did slip....lots less damage!

[dionysus]

whatever floats your boat. i just think that it would be alittle dangerous. my mom's boyfriend tried cutting pipes and nearly got into an accident. i would use clamps with a hacksaw atleast.

[Brooke]

They make a PVC pipe cutter that slips over the pipe and you squeeze it and presto, it is cut. There is no way to hurt yourself with the cutter. If you intend to cut a lot of pipe, it is worth the price.

Brooke

[dionysus]

never heard of that before. that sounds pretty cool.

[PhalPal]

I might have known someone would have invented something special to cut PVC!! Thanks for the tip Brooke.

[Brooke]

Who can live without PVC pipe and duct tape - particularly since they make duct tape in designer colors now.

Brooke

[dionysus]

THEY MAKE DESIGNER DUCT TAPE???!???!??!!!??!??!?????? since when??:

[articuno75]

I've seen different colors at True Value. Even Flourescent colored.

[Orchidflowerchild]

Originally Posted by PhalPal

OFC - Did you know that PVC is easliy cut with a hack saw?? It would save you some time and trouble to cut it yourself.

Well, yeah, despite my blonde roots! But why do for myself something that home despot will do for me, at no extra charge?

Besides, the risk of my clumsy @$$ cutting off a finger is greatly reduced by having it done for me.

-Cj

[palito]

orchidflowerchild

what's the highest temp inside your greenhouse when the sun hits it during winter and summer?

[dionysus]

IM BACK!! Ok, i got my greenhouse set up adn it is spectacular!! It gets hot quick, but i leave the doors open. I put my plants in tehre, but the light was too bright... but i didn't loose any of them, thank God! but i had to take em out... at the moment, i have a banana tree, a bon fire begonia, a few amaryllis, adn a soon to be cypripedium if i can get it to sprout from the roots... and a bromeliade. i stuck two pahls in there under a shade tray cuz teh bromeliade was working under it well.

the greenhouse itself is 6x8 adn i can stand up in it. the floor is pea gravel, but i aim to make it moss in the next few years. I have already started. It will be the most awesome greenhouse ever when im done with it. lol

[solay]

Hee! Hee! Hee! That's my goal for mine too. I got a 8x8 easygrow with pea gravel for the base. Did you need to add a shade cloth to yours? Seems it gets really hot in there from the sun. I haven't put in any plants yet though. Got any pics. of yours? Love to see.

[articuno75]

PiCtUrEs !!!!!

[dionysus]

Im takin pics now! I had some from assembly, but i don't think they are around any more... i'll check to see if they're in my sent messages box.

[dionysus]

more on the way!!

[solay]

Very nice. Yours looks almost like mine except mine has green frame and a different door. I like that your foundation is raised up.

[fred]

looks pretty good to me as well.
I think two tips I could give right now would be a fan for air circulation and also some shade cloth to filter the afternoon summer sun.
also a thought needs to be made on the cold wintry days

other than that good job

[dionysus]

yes.... im dreading the first snow... and i am tryin to find a fan that will stand up to moisture. but i have the door adn vent open all the time adn that seems to work well. the breeze(from the west where the vent faces) comes in the vent and out the door. but i do need to find a fan....

and as for winter, I am gonna get a small space heater(we have like 6, lol) and wrap the inside in bubble wrap and coat the outside in a thin layer of ice to keep out moisture. the cracks will be sealed by a spray bottle and then a quick freeze and another once over. i think this will help some... i hope. lol