Sarcochilus Anyone???

[PhalPal]

I am going to the Santa Barbara Orchid Estate open house tomorrow and have a list of orchids to buy. A new variety I am considering is Sarcochilus hartmannii or Fitzhart, both aussie varieties. I have read the culture sheets and they seem to fit into my conditions but I haven't heard much talk about them on the forum; perhaps there is a reason why?? Either they are super EASY and no help needed, or super HARD and all of you have given up!??

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated, as always!

PS - I want to pot them, not mount, which seems to be quite common with these orchids. Mounting is just too difficult to manage in my current conditions and not an option.

[Vivienne]

PhalPhal - I have no information to provide for Sarcochilus but like your super easy/super hard thoughts. LOL YOU DESERVE a fun trip like this after the past month. Relax and enjoy yourself! And don't forget to share you new 'chids with us.

[PhalPal]

Thanks Vivienne; those are my husband thoughts exactly!!

[fred]

I give my Sarcochilus potted in squat pots also I have some growing in sphagnum moss and I have some fine bark mix
I have a few links for you to look at I hope they help you PhalPal

Sarcochilus

Tinonee Orchids

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~vcs_...ge%20Abell.pdf

Rodriguezia Orchids, Rodrigueziella Orchid, Rossioglossum Orchid Care

Rodriguezia Orchids, Rodrigueziella Orchid, Rossioglossum Orchid Care

[Tess1]

Hi PhalPal, my sarcs are just coming into bloom, when they are in flower I'll post some piccies. I have not had a lot of luck with them really, however that was my own fault as I had them into too coarse a mix. I have repotted them into a smaller bark, like I use for dens and now they are doing fine. One thing I learned is to water them regularly. They don't have pseudo bulbs or the thickened stem of dens, so they cannot store water. Keep them moist.

[dantheman351]

sarcs are good easy to grow and they really love chc i think its a shame that there aren't more of them over there in the us because breeders here are really doing well with them

[fred]

here is two Sarco I have one in bloom and one in spike

[Tess1]

Awwww fred, yours are much better than mine!

[fred]

I would not say that Tess I bet you have nice ones also ( Sarcochilus )

[Tess1]

Lol fred...........

[PhalPal]

Ahh Fred they are just too cute!! I went to the open house yesterday and had a ball!! I didn't end up with a Sarcochilus however. As huge as the SBOE is, they grow very few and he told me they really don't have good luck with them over here. Maybe they like your spragh Fred?? The man helping me has grown orchids for forty years and he has killed several of them and finally gave up. Since i do not have a greenhouse to control conditions better I decided against it until I get my orchid room set up.

They will remain on my wish list!!! Thanks for all your help everyone. I will post on another thread what I did end up bring home. (I'm glad I brought our SUV!)

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Very interesting. I recall seeing a whole bunch of these in bloom there on one occasion, but it was probably something one of their invited guests brought, or something they ordered from elsewhere to sell during one of the Santa Barbara events.

I personally can't grow them worth a darn. I buy them and watch them languish for a number of years. However, I just looked at the top link in Fred's post. The fact that they are described as being rupicolous gives me an idea. I went out to the GH and unpotted every one of them and raised them in the pot so that most of the remaining roots are exposed. Rupicolous Laelias not only want to dry out really fast, a danger for Sarcs, but normally have their roots exposed to the sun. So I am going to go with that idea. I've tried absolutely everything else, so what have I to lose.

[Andrew]

Fred, I'm currently in Sth Cal for work (no time for visiting orchid nurseries unfortunately) and your photo's are making me homesick. I've just left behind a bunch of Sarcs & Sarc intergenerics that are just opening up. Hopefully they'll still be out when I get back. There's a few I haven't flowered before that look to be showing some good colour. Will post some photo's if they're in good condition when I get back.

PhalPal,
Sarco. Fitzhart and hartmannii are very easy for Sarc's. they should do well where you live. Both of these do very well in pot culture (I can't say I've seen anyone in Melbourne growing these two mounted which should probably give you some confidence in pots.)

[fred]

good luck with that Cynthia please keep us posted
I would be very interested to see how the Sarcs go

Andrew
Garden World in Springvale has them mounted
there is an orchids place in Tyabb with hundreds of mounted sarcs
having said that I do grow most of my sarcs in squat posts
some in sphagnum moss and others in fine bark mix

[Andrew]

Fred,
I was referring more to lithophytes like hartmannii and the hartmannii/fitzgeraldii cross that Phalpal was thinking of buying. The epiphytic species like falcatus, olivaceous, etc do tend to do much better mounted than potted and, while I may be wrong, I thought most of the mounted Sarcs at Collectors Corner, Wayne Turville's, etc were epiphytic species. I have seen ceciliae mounted (usually horizontally) on wood or rock which suits the drier conditions this plant needs but I didn't realise people preferred it for hartmannii or fitzgeraldii.

[fred]

I saw that in Tyabb last February when I was visiting the Mornington Peninsula

[PhalPal]

Cynthia - SBOE had fewer than ten sarcs and they did not look all that great even though they were in spike. They were not hartmannii or fitzgeraldii.
Maybe they required a lot of special treatment and they have decided not to grow them? Interesting that they had a book for sale "Sarcochilus" signed by a man who was associated with SBOE. Now I'm even more confused.

I will say that the guy helping me was a bit judgemental and all but talked me out of the sarcs. He asked me how many orchids I had and I answered "less then 30" and he called me a 'beginner' and felt a sarc was not a good choice for me. I have chosen to stick with two varieties (cyms and phals) that I can grow easily and well and don't consider myself a true beginner simply because I don't have one of every variety. I'm trying to be very careful in choosing the types that grow easily in my area without a greenhouse!

[Andrew]

Looking at what's listed on the SBOE website, I wouldn't have thought there was anything they were selling that warranted a 'not for beginners' warning. They look like fairly standard hartmannii, fitzgeraldii, falcatus hybrids. Actually, if you give them Cymbidium temperatures and Phal light and water, they'd probably be fine.

Down Under Native Orchids attend shows in the US. If you're interested in Sarc's I'd contact them and see when they'll next be at a show near you.

[fred]

I find here in Tasmania that the Sarcs love the morning sun but do not like the afternoon sun at all.
when looking at sarcs if you feel the leaves and they feel thick and smooth I would recommend getting that one
if you feel a rough thin lot of leaves on the sarcs they need more care to bring them back to the above condition thick and smooth leaves.

lack of water is the main cause of rough thin leaves.
that is a good interaction on a healthy Sarc

[kmarch]

I see no one has offered up any comprehensive cultural info for Sarcs yet so here's the culture I give my Sarcs (all hybrids):

LIGHT - Bright indirect. A bit of direct sun in the early morning would be fine. Mine grow outside on a patio protected from direct sun. They never get direct sunlight yet grows and blooms fine. Also all of those in my orchid club here who grow lots of Sarcs, grow them under cover, again bright indirect light.

TEMPERATURE - Sarc hybrids seem to like a warm summer (mine experience temps as high as 40C (about 105F) and a cool winter as low as 5-10C (40-50F). They grow a lot when it is warm and stop when it is cool. They start to spike in late winter and bloom in spring.

WATER & HUMIDITY - My Sarcs are always kept a bit moist. Humidity varies wildly here in Melbourne. I've seen it be 85% humidity in winter and 8% in summer.

AIR - My Sarcs grow outside and Melbourne is one of the windiest places i know so they get lots fo fresh air and breeze.

POTTING - I pot mine in coconut choir or fine bark.

Like many other genera, Sarc hybrids tend to be more tolerant of a wide range of conditions than species.

As I look back at what I just wrote, I notice it is the same conditions as for Cymbidiums. And I do have my Sarcs sitting right next to my Cymbidiums. So I'm really, really suprised that SBOE say they can't grow Sarcs. I suspect there's just other orchids they're more interested in or perhaps that sell better.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

SBOE may be also growing them in one of their warm greenhouses out of ignorance, tho I bought a S. cecilae from them that was growing in their out door Cymbidium area. Thanks for the info. I will be moving many of these plants out to the cold frame. Max cold has been 38F, but this isn't a steady diet temperature, just on the coldest nights of the year.

I have cecilae, fitzgeraldii, and hartmannii. Would you recommend this location for all of them?

[PhalPal]

Thanks for all the information everyone. Your culture sheet is great Kevin. I always look up the culture requirements before choosing an orchid and felt they would work well with my cyms. It was a very busy open house and I think the guy helping me was just helping out and not a full time employee. He had to ask someone where the sarc's were, but when we did find them they didn't look so great. They were in the same house as the cyms, but everything was except for a few specialty houses.

Something he did stear me toward was a cork bark mounted Laelia anceps. I can grow them among my cyms outside. I am just in awe of this little plant!! I think it will be one of the few mounted orchids that can tolerate our heat. It has two spikes with another just starting; I will post pics when it blooms.

[kmarch]

Cynthia, I dont' know as much about growing Sarc species because I don't have any. But I do have an orchid club friend that grows those 3 species, cecilae, fitzgeraldii, and hartmannii in conditions similar to mine. His cecilae is mouunted on a large rock, no potting mix, no nothing. I've got a pic of it somewhere; when I find it I'll post it. He has to water it daily mounted this way.

[Andrew]

Cynthia,
Your cold frame should work well. Sarco. hartmannii and fitzgeraldii will grow well with Kevin's recommendations. Sarco. ceciliae prefers a slightly brighter location. Whereas most Sarc's do best under around 70% shade, you can raise it up to 50% for ceciliae. Sarco ceciliae also prefers a little less water. If you're using a pot, use a course mix that will dry out quickly. I use 30% course bark, 70% similar sized pebbles. Sarco ceciliae roots tend to run over the surface of the mix rather than into it so I use a shallow pot and plant high in the pot so the plant and roots essentially sit on top of the mix.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Whereas most Sarc's do best under around 70% shade, you can raise it up to 50% for ceciliae.

Remember this is 70% and 50% in Southern Australia where the sun is very intense. It will be different in other parts of the world. In most places in the US (except possibly the south west) you'd probably never use more than 50% for most and possibly none at all for a high light Sarc like ceciliae.

I reiterate yet once again. There is a significant difference between the plant's needs and how we provide those needs. The orchid's cultural needs are always the same, how we provide those needs differs from location ot location, situation to situation. Regardless of where in the world you live, Sarcs need bright indirect light. But in different geographical regions the way in which you give it the light it needs will be different.

Here in Victoria, Australia, we need 70% shade cloth to get the light down to "bright indirect." In a state like Michigan or a north west state like Oregon or Washington you'd never ever use 70% shade cloth, maybe during the hottest and brightest months of the summer you might use 50% for a short while.

[Tess1]

Interesting the way we all grow our sarcs. Mine never bloomed until I put them in the shade of the cyms. Here they are happy and blooming their little heads off, although somewhat later than what I expected.

[PhalPal]

Kevin 70% shadecloth is very commly sold here in the southwest. I doubt it could even be found north of San Francisco.

Tess you mentioned you grow your sarc's amoung your cyms?? This is exactly what I had in mind when I went hunting for some recently. I pick plants based on my conditions and don't try to fight Mother Nature; I've learned I won't win. Do yours tolerate your high's and low's if nestled under the cym leaves?? Our conditions are very similiar to Australia's so I learn a lot from you Aussies!

[Tess1]

PhalPal, yes I have mine growing behind the cymbids, on the same shelf. The sarcs seem to enjoy the little extra shade they get that way. The temeratures at which the cyms grow suits the sarcs as well. We get really hot days in spring and summer and of course pretty cold days and nights in winter, they don't seem to worry the sarcs. The only difference in culture that I found is that the sarcs need more water than the cyms. They don't have pseudo bulbs, so don't store water. I do not to let them dry out. I have them in squat pots.

[PhalPal]

Thanks for the info Tess. I think I will try a few and get them from a different grower. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, this guy didn't think I was capable of growing sarc's simply because I didn't have 100's of orchids. How many plants one has is not always indicative of capability. Obviously he ticked me off a little! My research matches what all of you are advising so I will give them a shot.

BTW - What is a squat pot? A few Aussie's have mentioned them; we may call them something different or not have them at all. Brief explanation please??

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by PhalPal

BTW - What is a squat pot? A few Aussie's have mentioned them; we may call them something different or not have them at all. Brief explanation please??

Squat pots are just shallow pots. Think along the lines of an azalea pot.

[Tess1]

About half the height of a normal pot?

[fred]

PhalPal here is 2 examples for you to view of normal pots and squat pots

[PhalPal]

Thanks Fred! We would call those azalea pots.

[Tess1]

PhalPal, have a look here:
Orchid Societies Council of Victoria Inc

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Tess1

PhalPal, have a look here:
Orchid Societies Council of Victoria Inc

Click on the articles link on that OSCOV site and you'll find a few articles about Sarc's. Most, if not all, are written with respect to a Victorian climate but they're still well worth reading.

[PhalPal]

Thanks Tess; very useful site. Those specimen plants are beautiful, WOW!

[Lucio]

Hi everybody, I am in Switzerland and I would like to get some more sarcochilus. I just have one hartmannii and one fitzgeraldii, fine plants, but in Europe it seems almost impossible to find any hybrids. Anybody could help me? how could I find some?
thanks :-)