Artificial lighting

[Sara]

I have a 48" flourescent fixture with two 40 watt grow light bulbs. It worked really well for African Violets. What species of Orchids can do well under these lights? I don't have a lot of money to add or change anything to the fixture, just want to know what I can put under them. Thanks!

[mayres]

As far as the main genera of orchids that people grow you have TWO options. Phals and Paphs. You will want to grow them as close as possible to the bulbs - literally an inch or two if possible. Ideally bulbs should be replaced every 6 months for optimum light output or at least every year - even though they will look to the eye to be normal. You can put medium and high light level orchids under them and keep them alive for a long time, but they will not bloom and thrive. Good luck! mike

[jbigio]

I would go with either of the 2 that mike suggested. Also it would depend on the height from the shelve to the lights some Phals can get long spikes. I've gotten hooked on phap's of late and just got some big boys also.

[Fabolusus]

In addition to phals and paphs, you could also do some bulbophylums, depending on your humidity and water quality. I have a Bulb. medusae that is thriving under 2-23 watt cfls.

[Nancy]

Is there an easy way to tell how much light I have? I grow phalaenopsis on a window seat and a dendrobium, an oncidium, and three cattleyas on the window sill. I would like to supplement the light just on the sill. I can figure out how to do it, I just need an easy way to read what I have so I know where to start. Thanks.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Sara

I have a 48" flourescent fixture with two 40 watt grow light bulbs. It worked really well for African Violets. What species of Orchids can do well under these lights? I don't have a lot of money to add or change anything to the fixture...

If you want to save some money, don't use grow lights. Instead use one ordinary "cool" flourescent tube and one "warm" tube. They will cost about half (or less) than 2 grow lights and will produce almost exactly the same spectrum of light.

I grew under this sort of set up for about 5 years. I don't agree that you have to have the lights only an inch or 2 form the plants, in my set up the lights were on average 4-8 inches form the plants.

Under these conditions i successfully grew and bloomed:
Paphs - especially the Brachypetalum and mottle-leaf hybrids, a few mottle leaf species (P sukhakulii, P appletonianum, P wolterianum). Multi-florals need more light.

Coelogyne - especially C. fimbriata, C. ovalis, and C. speciosa. These all bloomed twice a year under these lights. Also you could grow other speciosa-type like C. xyerekes.

Phrags - I grew and flowered P. besseae, P. schlimii, and P xerophyticum. Many Phrags will require more light than this to bloom well so choose carefully and avoid the caudatum section species and hybrids.

And a variety of other orchids like: Masdevallias, Restrepias, Dendrobium moniliforme, Haraella retrocalla, Phal deliciosa, and a few others that I am forgetting.

Do some research before you buy and choose orchids that do well in medium-to-low light conditions.

Avoid most Cattleyas, Oncidiums, and all Vandas/Ascocentrum/Ascocenda.

If you have questions abour or have a difficult time finding info about a particular kind of orchid, let us know.

Happy growing!

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Nancy

Is there an easy way to tell how much light I have? I grow phalaenopsis on a window seat ....

Where are you located (roughly) and what direction does your window face?

[kmarch]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Bulbos. Most of them do well in med-to-low light but you do have to have the humidity for them.

[mayres]

I do not doubt you CAN grow low light orchids at greater distances than a few inches (as I have and do do it with many of my own plants - in less than ideal conditions). However, the light intensity drops off dramatically with distance from the tubes - note a comment I made from a previous post:

Here are light intensities in footcandles noted from the University of Missouri Extension Service for fluorescent 40 watt tubes - depending upon lumen output of individual bulbs - your results may vary slightly - but will give you the general concept/intensity to expect:

2 tube fixture at 6" 500 footcandles, at 1 foot 260 footcandles, at 2 feet 110 footcandles, at four feet 40 footcandles

[Nancy]

I would say my window seat faces pretty much due north. This is the reason I want to supplement the light. The phalaenopsis appear to be doing fine in this light. I worry about the higher light demanding plants.

[mayres]

Due north windows is an EXCELLENT reason to add supplemental lighting! Have you gotten your phals to rebloom in the north window(s)? Someone I know here keeps her plant looking fairly healthy in a north but no reblooms - leaves are very dark green too (which generally indicates insufficient light). mike

[digitalgate]

hey i grow my phals, oncidium,mini cattleya, brassovola under FL. My
mini dendrodrium has bloom a few time under this arrangement.
Before you jump into buying plants. You must know , i am a orchid
hardcore. I spent a lot of money into the lighting, CO2 injection..
Your 80W is not enough to grow what I have. To do what I do
you need to do the follow
1)highly reflective aluminium reflector cost $15 , you need two so $15x2
2)four PL Osram Dulux constant each generate about 4500lux
each $15 so $15x4
3)electronic ballast dual tube connection each$10 you need two so $10x2
4) clip, wire,socket about $10
Total $120
plus you need to wire everything yourself.
you also need to change the PL FL tube every year.
Then your orchid will be happy.

[kot444]

Hi Digitalgate!
Can you clarify a little bit about ballast, Dulux need magnetic ballast, can it be obtained separately, where?

[digitalgate]

I am using ebiru electronic ballast 54W (on a 55watt PL) it work fine. I guess any e-ballast work just fine(proper wattage) . Dont use those that need to use
a starter , osram tube did specify that.
I stay in Asia. I remember when i was in Minneapolis
i had a hard time looking for electronic ballast. May be you can try google.
try google for eballast. that might help. But if you intend to go for my kind of
setup. I suggest trying the lastest in FL technology - T5HO. It rival
HID output without the heat.
I guess heat might not be a problem for you up north. it is also found on the osram website.
sorry I dont know any shop or site that sell eballast and T5 HO tube.
I just went to my local hardware shop for it.

[digitalgate]

e ballast come separately with the PL tube

[kmarch]

Or......

You could go to Lowe's and buy 2 2-tube shoplights (about $15 each) and 4 flourescent tubes (2 cool, 2 warm, about $4 each).

Total: about $46.

Mottle-leaf Paphs can grow well in the same light s your Phal.

[digitalgate]

ordinary FL is fine with Phal but you will be changing light tube very frequently.
Like the old saying , you get what you paid for.

[Nancy]

I added supplemental light to the window this p[ast weekend. I'm going to have to wait to see if there are any results. I added two 100 watt daylight bulbs in reflectors. My collection is small so hopefully this is enough light added to the natural light to keep the orchids happy. I have one shining directly down on the oncidium Sharry Baby, which is completing a new growth. Please let me know what you think.

[mayres]

The first winter I had orchids (about 3 years ago) I only had 6-8 plants and placed a 100 watt tungsten bulb w/reflector over them as you describe. It worked OK for a few plants, but was poor use of resources. A much better choice would be a CFL bulb in the same reflector - you should be able to find a compact fluorescent bulb at a place like Home Depot or Lowes that is the equivalent of a 150 or even 200 W tungsten bulb - that uses less electricity and provides more light for your orchids. They do not waste energy producing heat like conventional bulbs. Because they are not hot you can get them a lot closer to your plants too - which is good - generally the closer the better with non-commercial lighting.

[Nancy]

The two bulbs are flourescent. My husband is obsesively cost conscious about lightbulbs.

[digitalgate]

Originally Posted by Nancy

I added supplemental light to the window this p[ast weekend. I'm going to have to wait to see if there are any results. I added two 100 watt daylight bulbs in reflectors. My collection is small so hopefully this is enough light added to the natural light to keep the orchids happy. I have one shining directly down on the oncidium Sharry Baby, which is completing a new growth. Please let me know what you think.

100w daylight tube? the wattage sound weird. I have seen only maximum
55watt.you sure? Make sure you get a good aluminum reflector they are
important too.

[mayres]

Wow! Fooled me. I have never seen a 100W fluorescent either. Are you sure it is not a 100W "EQUIVALENT"?

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by digitalgate

ordinary FL is fine with Phal but you will be changing light tube very frequently.

Not really. I changed my bulbs whenever they started to flicker. My average bulb life was probably about 8-12 months, which I wouldn't call frequent. I also grew only a few Phals like this, the vast majority of plants I grew like this were Paphs and Coelogyne.

Originally Posted by digitalgate

Like the old saying , you get what you paid for.

The old saying doesn't apply here. I got vigorous growth with regular and fine blooms from my plants. It's a myth that that you have to spend a lot to get a lot, at least for lighting.

[Nancy]

The bulbs are 27 watts. The light output is equal to two 100 watt incandescents. The orchids are responding well. Any more suggestions would be very appreciated. Thank you so much for the help.

[digitalgate]

oh boy, you need at least 40watt per foot length wise. I suggest Add two more FL tube get the warm type.
The reflector will limit how many you can put width wise. I suggest 4 FL tube 3 feet in length. You have to put the plant really close to the tube. You will be using 120 watt of electricity. To calculate how much you be paying for electricity. use the following formula.(assuming 120watt setup to supplement the sunlight)

1) 0.12KW x (hours you intend to turn on FL)x 30 ( 30day in a month)x cost
of 1 KWH (you can find this in your bill)
my bill comes to about $12 per month (i can live with that!)
I turn on for 8 hours per day, 156watt setup, 30days in a month.
the rest of the day dependent on the sunlight to make up minimum 10 hrs
of light per day.
This i believe will help you through the winter. 6 hours of day light in winter
is really really short.

[Nancy]

So far I've just been experimenting with light. At this point there has been very good response to it. I see more root and leaf growth. It's too soon to know if my phalaenopsis will bloom. I will take your suggestions to heart and make changes, if need be, when the time comes. Thanks for the help.

[mayres]

Nancy - a bit difference with me - 16 hours of light per day with standard four foot shoplights - half with cool white tubes and half with full spectrum - phals and paphs do great. Other orchids light starved - difficult to bloom. I'm getting a T5 fixture soon that will provide 2X the amount of light as the shop lights - will be interesting to see what a difference it makes. I would think the two small lights you have will only adequately work for a half dozen (or so depending upon size) low light level need plants. Be careful about how much activity you see in your plants and associate with the current lighting. I have a significant number of plants spiking now under my shop lights - but they got their burst of energy from being outside in the morning sun for the past six months and just happen to now be under the lights. mike

[Orchidflowerchild]

I always get antsy about replacing the tubes so frequently, for my pleuro case, due to the waste factor. The tubes, however, are perfectly fine to use to light the utility room or the greenhouse. I rotate out old tubes into the greenhouse, so I have lights, if I go out there at night. THat way I get 2yrs out of each tube.

-Cj

[digitalgate]

now i have to do an experiment involve cheap FL tube and brightness decay with time.

[mayres]

Note the fluorescent tube brightness decay chart at this link - it is typical of what I have seen at other sites - http://www.sharpertechnology.com/ima...DecayCurve.pdf.
You loose 20% of the brightness of the lamp in the FIRST TWO MONTHS (1000 hours) at 16 hours of use per day. For the next two YEARS you only loose another 10%. In an industrial setting where maximum benefit vs. minimal cost is considered we change out lamps every SIX MONTHS for critical places. As Cindy has suggested, if you just need to see - use them until they go dark!

[digitalgate]

cool! I need to change to T5 already. He! He! He!
wait a minute, what about decay curve for HID?

[Fabolusus]

I replace my MH every 12 months, running them 12 hours per day. BTW there are cfls that are 85 watts and up (85 REAL watts, not equivalent). Most of the ones above 85 watts won't fit in a standard fixture.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/2-to-200-Wa...n-Light-Bulbs/

[digitalgate]

Now i want to experiment with HID Sodium. Anyone using this?

[mayres]

If I had the money I would purchase a dual 400W MH/HPS ballast - as you probably know one promotes growth and the other flowering - you can alternate to some degree in order to get both. This is about as high of wattage as you can go without having to vent significant heat. I've not used it yet, but looked at them in the hydroponics stores. Hopefully one day........

[Vivienne]

Just purchased an 18" 60W FL fixture. Will this be enough for Encyclia tampensis, Dendrochilum bicallosum, Angraecum Longiscott and my Vanda seedlings? It's definitely more than what they were getting before.

[digitalgate]

one FL tube? i use 4FL.

[Sara]

I also have a compact flourescent fixture for a 10 gallon fish tank I used for salt water. It has a total of 80 watts, and it 20" long. What can I grow under that? Obviously something small.

[digitalgate]

i think if you can have a mini green house that would be best where
you have sunlight all day.

[Nancy]

I went from the light of a north window and supplemented it with the two small lights. I'll be getting one more this weekend. It appears to be working. My collection is fairly small. I have two phalaenopsis in spike, so hopefully they will rebloom after doing it once in the Home Depot. I don't think it always has to be so complicated. I'll keep you updated on my blooming successes.

[Vivienne]

Originally Posted by digitalgate

one FL tube? i use 4FL.

If this is reference to my post about the 18" 60W FL... this is only used to light an area that is 15" deep, 20" wide and 16" tall. It also just supplements the natural light from the skylight.

[digitalgate]

Originally Posted by Vivienne

If this is reference to my post about the 18" 60W FL... this is only used to light an area that is 15" deep, 20" wide and 16" tall. It also just supplements the natural light from the skylight.

i hope i am wrong. Can you get your hand on a camera with a light meter?
IF not get a light meter to measure the light for your setup. I suspect your FL light will not pass 750 foot candle in the centre of the tray. Right now I am struggling with 750 footcandle , 1 foot from the PL light at the edge of my rack.
I did a bit of research on some guys who wrote some book on orchids.
They all recommend HPS.
Plus the cost for me is almost the same for HPS and T5.

[Nancy]

Does anyone know how much light comes in from a northern oriented window? I'd like to find out how much light I am providing.

[mayres]

It is going to depend upon a lot of factors - overcast, blue sky, any eaves on your roof, size of window, etc. Checked the center of an 8 foot picture window on a bright but cloudy day - 390 foot candles right at the surface of the window. It will drop off surprisingly fast - 190 at three feet, 50 at six feet.

[Nancy]

I definately need to add more light. Is it true that artificial light should be on for 16 hoursa day this time of year. This would cause it to be on longer than the shortest days of the year. What do they base the daily duration of light on, if not the general effects on day length from the different seasons of the year?

[mayres]

Nancy - I posted a thread some time ago concerning this whole concept of duration of lighting - changing with the seasons. To me it makes NO sense, because the bulk of the orchids in the world grow near the equator where the light is nearly constant year round. I can see the concept having validity with plants growing in temperate climates - but not otherwise. So far no one has given me a good explanation for this - maybe I will post the same question on a couple other forums and see if I can get a good response? I DO keep my lights on approximately 16 hours per day - part of the reason for this is that I do not have good strong lighting - until this week just six shop lights with two tubes each. They do OK with phals and paphs with 16 hours but the other genera I have don't do much of anything except stay alive. Hoping to get a T5 fixture today that puts out TWICE the amount of lighting and then keeping my fingers crossed that my catts and a few others will like it and GROW (?). We will see. No areas in the world and amount of light naturally in this thread - http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/gen...hlight=equator

[digitalgate]

Mayres
go for HPS. I was quoted the same thing they used on the street lamp
for $150 for a 250W . You have dont to worry about heat. I DO.
I am thinking very seriously about HPS as soon as heat is a problem for me.
My growing area is in the living room.

[mayres]

digi -
Eventually I do plan to try a combination fixture that accepts HPS and MH - probably a 400W. For now I plan on trying a six tube T5 - mainly for the education and experimentation I plan on doing with it - and it also fits the stand that I already have set up where two of my six current shop lights are hanging. I plan on lighting 20-30 plants with this - will see how it goes. My growing area is also INDOORS. I could use the excess heat during the winter but during the warm part of the season will probably have to set up a venting system.

[TZ-Long Island]

Light options for growing most orchids


2 -48” fluorescent shoplights (= 4 x32-40 watt tubes). You can go with 2 cool white+ 2 warm white, 4 GE plant tubes, or 4 daylight tubes. Hang lights 20-24“ up and put high light catts, dendrobiums etc in the center, Phals and Paphs at the end. This is the minimum in effective light setups

250, 400, 1000watt HIDs [high intensity discharge] , metal halide for better growth, sodium for funky growth but good flowering. Both have conversion bulbs that split the difference. They put out a lot of heat, are heavy , and buzz. Save them for a dedicated grow room.

T5 HO fluorescents--High output. The 8x 54 watt tube units put out the same lumens as a 400 watt HID. These are light weight, quiet, and don’t put out much heat.

Compact fluorescents[ CFLs]. These are the curly tubes you see as replacement bulbs. The number on the package refers to the lumen equivalent of a regular incandescent bulb so the common 100 watt replacement bulbs are only something like 23 watt fluorescents. You can get big 85, 105 and 150 watt bulbs which say they are 400-500 watt equivalents. This is not equivalent to a 400 watt HID or 400 watts of HO fluorescents. A 105 watt cfl (400 watt equivalent) puts out around 6500 lumens, a 400 watt HID puts out 40,000lumens [a 54 watt HO fluorescent tube puts out something like 5,000 lumens].

A lot of people are going for the CFLs without realizing that the light output is not the same per watt as the HIDs or HO fluorescents, but the good thing is that they will fit in a standard socket (if you buy the ones with that size base), and will fit in small spaces so you can grow a few plants in corners.

A big problem people make with artificial lights is wasting the light. If you surround your plants with white material or reflective Mylar (even underneath) the plants get 2-3 times as much as if you just shined the light down on them on an open shelf. A big CFL curly tube hanging over plants with no reflector above it is a huge waste of light.

Light temperature of bulbs… 3,000K (reddish) will stimulate flowering like sodium HID, 6,000K (bluish) better growth, and 5,000K split’s the difference. Daylight bulbs can be 5,000k or 6,000k. A combination of 3,000K and 6,000K is better than all 5,000k. K = degrees Kelvin = light output by a white hot filament at that temperature. Plants use red and blue light (low and high k) while people see best with a lot of green light (5,000k bulbs).

[mayres]

TZ-Long Island - welcome - can you update your profile to show your growing area? I assume NY?
After two seasons of using fixtures with 2 48" flourescents my analysis is that this type of lighting is NOT sufficient for cattleyas and dendrobium type orchids - even in the centers. I'm not saying that they will not stay alive, but they are not getting the light they want and will NOT flourish. They will most likely, for the most part, only bloom due to the higher light you may have provided BEFORE placing them under this type of lighting - such as a summer of outdoor lighting and then moving indoors under this lighting this time of year. Other than this addition I agree with your synopsis and would add you did a very good job of summarizing the situation! mike

[digitalgate]

spent $30 change all PL to T5HO. They are really really hot.
room temperature increase by 2c!!!
Can't imagine what room temperature will I have if I have MH and HPS combination

[mayres]

Just installed new T5 fixture myself last night - WOW! Have not checked the heat output yet, but the light output is major significantly more than standard shoplights - which before seemed fairly bright, but now next to my T5 appear to be half burned out. mike