Poll: Collecting Orchids From the Wild

[kmarch]

I would be interested in hearing members' opinions on whether or not you think it is ok for orchid species to be collected from the wild and if you think it is appropriate to have "jungle collected" plants in our collections.

There are many sensitive issues of conservation, collection, and commerce here and members will likely have strong opinions on the matters at hand. Therefore it is important that we be tactful and diplomatic in our posts and replies.

I'm looking forward to the discussion.

[Anton]

It IS a sensitive topic Kevin.

There are many species of Austrlian natives as you know, many terrestrial, and are not endangered.

My personal thoughts are definately NO collecting for commercial enterprises, but if a species is not endangered, then a few specimens (very few) should be able to be collected from licenced growers, similar to what happens with native parrots here in Australia.

This means that you could be subjected to spot checks to make sure you are conforming to the rules and regs and that your records are up to date.

Obviously there should be strict guidelines covering this, maybe the licence is offered to registered orchid clubs rather than individuals.

This subject is a veritable minefield, those for, and those against.

Good idea for a poll Kevin.

On my recent trip to Kangaroo Island I saw thousands of natives of the same species all over the island, 2 or 3 individual plants won't decimate the species, plus most of these wouldn't be recognised as anything but weeds by the untrained eye, so I can't see a rush to get them, therefore preserving the species.

I'll probably be shot down in flames here, but this is my opinion for what it is worth.

[tom499]

I am quite surprised by the outcome of the poll already, 5 out of 6 saying maybe.

For me the issue here, like with many environmental problems, is the numbers involved.

A plant could be common as grass in certain areas, but if theres a demand for it and people could collect them, it would surely be wiped out within a year.

Lets not forget when orchids were first being discovered, people were just ripping them up because there was a demand for them.

Most orchids are surely in commercial reach anyway, having long been propagated from wild ones, I dont see why we should need to pick more.

And if some orchids are covering landscapes then i think its great and they should be photographed and enjoyed, but left in their habitat.

I know as myself a collector of orchids fall into this trap, but i feel humans can be very greedy with such natural beauty, want to have it for ourselves and spend alot of money trying to recreate the environments in our own homes. This on the whole is fine, but I still believe we should not take any risks to ruin the natural habitats where orchids really do look their best.

I just dont think you can trust everyone to just take a few for their personal collection, and that they will be sold off and previously common species will become endangered.

UK orchids are surely a sign of that, where it takes physical barriers to stop people collecting previously common orchids, which are now only found in numbers in a few places.

[Anton]

Tom as I mentioned, it should be regulated and hefty fines for those that faulter. I have spent many hours photographing natives and I can categorically state have NOT take even one plant, boy, tempting though, but I DO have a moral side, although some may question that.

That's a reason I suggested Orchid Societies have the "licence" as I know in my Society there is a very strong climate of conservation. Some in our group do have permission from the Government to rescue threatened species and these are cultivated and shared within the Society with funds from the sales going towards conservation projects.

Wholesale pilfering should be stopped at all costs.

[Tobi]

Anton & Tom,
I pretty much agree with what you said. My concern is how to better monitor illegal cultivation of them in poorer countries where border travel
is not as stringent. I know that thousands of illegally cultivated wild orchids from Laos and Cambodia are brought into Thailand across mountain passes
that are not guarded. If people, especially those that have no money and
are barely able to make a living for themselves and their familes, can find
ways to collect orchids from the wild and sell them illegally, they will do so
at any cost.

[jerrymeola]

there is a belief that placing a plant or animal on the CITES endangered species list is a quarantee that it WILL

[kmarch]

For clarification, CITES is not protection regulation but rather commerce regulation. It does nothing to protect orchid in their habitats, the habitats themselves, or the collection of plants from the wild. It only regulates the movement of the plants across the borders of countries that have signed onto the treaty.

[Vivienne]

WOW - this is a great topic and I'm eager to see how every one feels about it. I do hope that we can all respect each others opinions.

My opinion is that wild orchids should stay wild. I originally voted NO but perhaps it should have been MAYBE. I would like to think that if institutions were able to collect wild orchids for identification and preservation that it would be okay; but in all reality, I do not feel that that is how it would be maintained. Greed is a powerful thing.

Originally Posted by Anton

That's a reason I suggested Orchid Societies have the "licence" as I know in my Society there is a very strong climate of conservation. Some in our group do have permission from the Government to rescue threatened species and these are cultivated and shared within the Society with funds from the sales going towards conservation projects.

This is a good idea. But it is up to us - the collectors and hobbyist - to be responsible with our purchases. If we are willing to spend the big bucks for a 'rare' orchid, then the pilfering of nature will continue.

[janet_a]

i'm with anton; but i also see tobi's point. i don't think your average joe out for a walk in the woods should collect anything; i'd prefer to see it regulated by the government. that said however, there are an awful lot of imbecilic incompetant governments out there, so it's a problem.

[prisana]

I agree with most of you. I don't think there's any way to work around greed. Too many people possess that , it's the ugly truth. The fines, the imprisonment , even death itself won't stop them from getting what they want. There are too many people involved and the poorest and most powerless usually are the ones paying the price. That, of course doesn't solve anything.

I will not buy anything rare or endangered..plants or animals. I don't need to feed my ego. I rather view them in their own habitat than own them in my habitat.

It's not okay to pick wild orchids, however , if the wild habitat is threatened , I believe picking them is the best conservation, but only if done by a certified group of people with expertise in caring for them. The rest should be protected in the same manner as all the other things are protected..but that's the hard part.

[tizzycat]

Greed, Lust, (call it what you will) is the enemy here.

I think that "licenced" collection should be permitted but only for the the purpose of preservation where a species is truly in danger of becoming extinct or being destroyed.

Some sort of botanical inspectorate should be responsible for monitoring what people are growing/selling/moving/destroying.

Surely native plants are equally as important as animals (which, incidentally, I also love).

[tom499]

Some vey valid points made there, and i agree that as long as there are people who will pay for illegal plants, people will pick them.

So in a way, maybe it would be better to have institutions that collect a few wild plants and then let them be mass propagated by growers and sold that way. If the rare plants can be made available legally then maybe less people would buy wild ones.

I said no believing most orchids are already available legally, so there is no excuse to pick wild ones.

[janet_a]

Originally Posted by tom499

So in a way, maybe it would be better to have institutions that collect a few wild plants and then let them be mass propagated by growers and sold that way. If the rare plants can be made available legally then maybe less people would buy wild ones.

yeah, this would be the ideal situation.

[PhalPal]

Prisana I could not have stated it better; I whole heartly agree with your stance. At first glance I was going to vote absolutely NO. Then with MAYBE came the qualifier of "if the environment was threatened" and I voted for MAYBE. And then here we go - who decides when an area is threatened, who will collect these orchids, and how will they be handled after saving them?? If there were a world wide ban on selling and purchasing such orchids it MAY help to save endangered species.

As Prisana so eloquently stated above, I would much rather see a plant or animal in the wild than stroke my own ego at their cost. Unfortunately, like most crime, it only takes 1% of the population to be criminals to ruin it for the rest of us who are honest.

[brookn]

My vote is maybe, but only in special circumstances, with proper permission. If someone is going to raze the land they are on, someone should be allowed to step in. I saw an add on ebay a couple of months ago touting wild lady slippers. When I inquired about them, the guy replied that they were collecting them from the forest, I must say I was furious. I reported to ebay, but they will not give you any info on the measures they take against these people.

[palito]

There are places that were plucked of the flashier orchids in the interest of "conservation", and now those plants are very rare to see...

With that said, I'd support efforts to fund the local botanical gardens in each country to collect, document and preserve their own species including those that have no horticultural value (the vast majority of orchids), that no commercial growers would be ever interested in breeding.

[19419n]

my Phal. aphrodite subsp. formosana 'Da Wu Mountain' is a stem prop from a jungle grown plant. this species is now considered extinct from the wild. i paid dearly for this plant not to brag or to show but to help preserve this. it now has a keikei growing on it which will be given to a grower in MO. who i know will do a great job with it. most of my phal species are jungle collected and i will be recieving a gigantea tomorrow from the jungle as well now none of these are for bragging rights or to be entered into any show. but to help maintain some of the true species before they dissapear for good. maybe someday my grandkids might enjoy growing them if not they will be donated to the Phipps conservatory in pittsburgh to live a happy and pampered life