limp ps.bulbs

[sandra]

Don't know if I'm doing something wrong, if I'm discouraging (somehow?) these 2 end ps.bulbs from getting stronger. They're stagnant, limp, not opening, sheaths have blackened. I purchased this a few months ago, a very young plant, am not sure if it's considered 'near blooming size' or if it's considered a 'seedling' but the others I have which were the same size when purchased, are all coming along just fine. I know that catts all have different time clocks for growth but am concerned that something is looming and want to correct it before it gets worse. Any advice? Thanks!

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

For the time being, I would stake these up so that they take a set/harden in the upright position. Are you using pure water? I had a problem with weak growths and flower spikes when using RO (reverse osmosis) water and regular fertilizer. Seems the plants were not getting macro minerals, not to be confused with micro minerals. It is Calcium, magnesium and I think one other macro mineral that they need. MSU fertilizer for pure water contains these minerals.

[kmarch]

Lets address the sheaths first. You say they are black? Are they truely black or have they just died? Are they dry? Or are they black and moist like we see with some kinds of rot? I've had Cattleya-types that grew growth after growth, cycle after cycle, and had many dry, dead looking sheaths, then suddenly one year most of the back growths with dry dead sheaths bloomed all together. If the sheaths are just dry and dead, I'd leave them as they may still bloom. I would not remove them as doing so may expose tender buds. If they are moist and truely black, it may be rot of some kind.

Are the 2 pseudobulbs at "the end" which you're concerned about, are they at the lead end of the plant where the new growth comes or are they at the oldest end of the plant? If they are at the old end of the plant, they will probably never do much more than what they're doing now. They may have already bloomed or for whatever reason they may not bloom. Their energy reserves may be depleted, which is normal. But, the "limp" part concerns me. When you say they are limp, is the bulb itself spongy or mushy feeling? Spongy and mushy bulbs are often signs of decay of some sort, rot or something similar. If they are rotting they will probably be a bit smelly too.

It's difficult to tell you if your plant is near blooming size or not because there's no point of reference in your picture by which to guage the size of your plant. What size pot is it in? Knowing the mane of the Cattleya would help too because then we'd know what blooming size is for that plant. Because there are many different kinds/sizes of Cattleyas (from micro Catts all the way up to veyr large standard size Catts) what is a seedling size for one type is blooming size for another.

Some Cattleyas, the twice a year bloomers, should probably just about be finishing their summer blooming so it may not be long before new growth starts. Have you had this plant long enough to see it through one or 2 full gorwth cycles? Are the new growths maturing to be as big or bigger than the old growths? If so, and if you're certain the plant does not have rot of any kind, I'd say a healthy dose of patience is what i'd perscribe.

[Tobi]

Sandra,
One of the members of the OS that I belong to was experiencing the same
problem with some of her larger Catts. She was also told it might be a vitamin
deficiency. She switched to MSU and it seemed to help. I've been using it for
about 2 years now and I love using it with my current water supply. I know
others have their own favs of fertilizers, but I found this very good.

[Ellen]

If the p-bulbs have sheaths, then the plant is blooming size. Sometimes when Catts grow very fast the new growth is limp at first, then quickly straightens up. I would stake the p-bulbs that are leaning over so that they grow vertically, though.

[sandra]

Well Kevin, the sheaths are a lot darker than any others I've seen. They're dry but not with the typical feel as others, not papery or crispy...these are pliable and almost soft but not wet. Also in these new photos, you can see how bruised the bulbs themselves look. I think this one's a goner.

Each ps.bulb is on opposite ends of the plant and I haven't a clue with this one where the the new growth is coming from, sorry. Both of these look like new growths that stopped development because of something wrong but I can't tell if they are at the oldest or newest end These definitely did not bloom though....they've yet to open.

No, not spongy, just limp, lifeless, floppy, no bad odors though.

Originally Posted by kmarch

It's difficult to tell you if your plant is near blooming size or not because there's no point of reference in your picture by which to guage the size of your plant. What size pot is it in? Knowing the mane of the Cattleya would help too because then we'd know what blooming size is for that plant.

Have you had this plant long enough to see it through one or 2 full gorwth cycles?

Sorry, I thought you were a mind reader also Kevin I took another photo to better show the size. I think it's in a 4" pot. All the tag said was HC195 BLC. Sang Yang Ruby - Purple. I've seen hardly any growth in the few months since I've had it except for a bunch of new roots starting which I just noticed a while ago when I repotted it and staked the bulbs.

I think there's something horribly wrong with this plant. It doesn't look healthy. I hate giving up on it. Maybe I should just ignore it and water it when needed? Patience, I've got plenty of if there's nothing more to do. Thanks for your help here.

[sandra]

Cynthia, I use regular tap water that I let sit out for 24 hours before using. I hardly ever fertilize, just once in a while but very rarely. I took your advice here and staked the bulbs up right. Thanks for your help here.

[sandra]

Originally Posted by Ellen

If the p-bulbs have sheaths, then the plant is blooming size. Sometimes when Catts grow very fast the new growth is limp at first, then quickly straightens up. I would stake the p-bulbs that are leaning over so that they grow vertically, though.

This makes soooooo much sense Ellen, probably why I didn't think of that! I feel a little more hopeful with this catt now. Thank you!

[fred]

sandra in the first pic that looks like the start of rot.
I would remove them and treat the cuts with cinnamon

[sandra]

Tobi, I'll have to look for MSU. I've never heard of it before. In fact, I'm not big on fertlizing but I think I'm going to start a regimen of every other week. Do you know if Home Depot carries it? I've been using the worm tea but I'm not convinced it's made a difference....yet.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

If you are using tap water, you do not need MSU. That is more for pure water, and their tap water formula is OK, but nothing to go out of your way for. Any fertilizer that has similar 3 number, like 10,10,10 or 15,15,15, or 13, 14,15, use half strength or so. After a thorough watering, dump a cup of fert solution thru the pot, once or twice a month.

The discolored beatup bulb looks OK to me. You might inspect the pseudo bulbs very closely for scale. That may be what made the rough texture. Remember, if the discoloration is on firm tissue, don't worry about rot.

New roots is the absolute best of all signs. Your plant may have had a problem taking in moisture from the pot. But with the new roots, the plant will start looking better and better with time. Just hang in there.

[kmarch]

Sandra, thanks for all the additional info. It's helpful.

I'm pretty sure your plant is blooming size. Since you have had it a short while, not long enough to see it through a full growing/blooming cycle, I would not worry about it not growing or blooming yet. You mention it is growing roots which of course is really good and desirable. After the new roots are in the mix and established, you may see the plant perk up, you may see some new growth, or you may even see a bloom (although given that the plant is a bit stressed I would not expect a bloom for a cycle or 2).

So here's what I'd do:
1) Review (if necessary) good Cattleya culture and make sure your plant is getting that. As the plant seems stressed perhaps give it a little more protection, keep it out of bright light and make sure it has nice comfortable humidity (probably really easy in Florida).
2) Watch the 2 growths you're concerned about for further decay or rot. Consider an application of fungicide. If they start to degrade quickly (i.e. turn black or get very mushy in a very short period of time - like a day or 2) remove them.

I think there's a good chance you plant is just stressed but that the root growth is a sign of recovery.

[sandra]

Kevin, all advice will be taken, thank you once again. If I get a moment today, I'll get more of the fungicide that I just ran out of and while at the store (Home Depot), I just may pick up another cattleya that I saw yesterday.... I woke up this morning, regretting not buying it so I just may have to do something about this.

Thanks again for all this advice.


Cynthia, I'll check for scale as soon as I've had another cup of coffee here. How do I check what's going on behind/under the sheath without removing it though? I'm going to quarantine this plant for a while. The thought of scale and I could be wiped out which will definitely solve my lack of space problem....and also my wallet.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

If the sheathing is tight on the bulb, don't worry about scale underneath. It is only loose sheathing that they can get under. I would also not worry too much about scale if it is caught early, as Bayer Advance Rose and Flower, which has imidacloprid, is an effective systemic, and very harmless to the plants.

[jerrymeola]

Your plant is well past the seedling stage. It is certainly blooming size especially in that it is growing in two directions. It would have flowered this summer.

Two growing directions almost guarantees that it was in a very tight pot before you bought it and the grower probably upsized the pot. If the plant had roots growing over the sides of the pot it is probable that the roots were stuffed into the pot rather than being cut off or left outside.

These roots have a bad tendancy to rot.

Watch the discolored bulb in the first photo. I agree with Fred that it look like rot. If it starts to get soft cut it quick. The two floppy bulbs on the sides is common on a badly overgrown plant. The roots that were supplying the bulbs with nutrients are no longer functional. If they were cut, off then it is beter for the plant but you may lose these two bulbs and a growing season.

If these get soft and blacked cut them out quick and I would recommend examining the roots and cut drasticly any that are bad.

The plant is generally good and you should be able to save it. The dark sheats are meaningless. Ignor them or remove them, sheats do not need to be kept.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Well, I have looked at the pictures again, and I have to agree with myself. I don't see any signs of rot in any of the pictures. The discoloration on the bulbs in the first picture of the second set look exactly like pigment to me, bulb in foreground and bulb in background. Look at the lower edge of the discoloration on the foreground bulb. It has a shadow line of the sheathing that covered the lower part of the bulb. The plant was probably put into higher light at that point in its development when the sheathing was on the lower section of the bulb. You can see a similar line on the stalled new growth where the bulb appears to have had a couple of starts and stops. This plant looks very fine to me, and I will be very surprised if Sandra reports sometime soon that there is a wet softness to anything. The new roots she reports will undoubtedly give the plant the boost it needs.

[sandra]

Jerry, this was one of those plants you see wrapped up in plastic bags on the shelves from Better-Gro. I don't know how long it was in it's original pot or how long it was laying on the shelf but I did have to cut away some roots when I got it home. (I've bought a few pre-wrapped orchids from this company and they've all had mostly nice, healthy roots already deep in the medium, just not this one though.) This would probably explain the limp ps. bulbs except that I've had the plant for a few months and the condition changed on it just recently. The bruised looking area, I'm watching carefully and if it worsens and begins to soften, I'm taking the plant back. I'm going to go with your optimism for the time being and give it a chance first.

Thanks for all your insight and advice here.

[sandra]

Originally Posted by Cynthia, Prescott, AZ

Well, I have looked at the pictures again, and I have to agree with myself.

Two opinions are better than one Cynthia, thanks!

While the color variation on the leaf doesn't concern me as much as the dark discoloration on the bulb, I seem to think that it may be rot or something just as fatal only because it wasn't there a couple of weeks ago but your opinion is more valid than my uneducated suspicions at this time.

I'm going with you, Kevin and Jerry on this one and staying hopeful.

I'll post updates with it's progress.

Thanks for your input here Cynthia.

FYI, the MSU fertilizer is not a brand name, but a type of fertilizer rich in minerals developed by the Michigan State University (I hope that's the right university). It comes in two formulas, one for tap water and one for R/O, rain, or purified water. Many places sell it. You might try Firstrays.

[Tobi]

MSU does stand for Michigan State University where the fertilizer was
developed. As I stated, I have been using it for about 2 years now. I
buy it from an orchid grower in Michigan and it's very inexpensive. I have
never had any problem with it following their directions as far as fertilizer
burn and my "kids" thrive with it. Once again, this is just my personal choice,
but it works great for my guys.