minicat(?) clarification

[pikevi]

I bought a few minicats and other orchids today. I will list them with photos soon. I have been planning to have a batch of minicats potted together.

This label on one of them is not very clear to me. Can anyone 'decipher' it for me please?

I hope the writing on the label is legible.

Thank you.

[Vivienne]

Using the RHS grex search, I came up with the following...

Brassocattleya Chian-Tzy Ingenuous
The 'epithet' is a little harder to pin down. To me it looks like 'CT Hime'.

Hope this helps.

[kmarch]

Here's the easy part:
I believe the top part is just a flower description.

Here's the rest:
The rest of the tag is a bit of a mystery. I can clearly read Bc. Chian-Tzy Ingenuous. Chian-Tzy Ingenuous (note the unusual spelling of the last word "Ingenuous". It's not supposed to be "Ingenious". It is spelled "Ingenuous" in the RHS database) is a cross made by Chian-Tzy Orchids in Taiwan. It was registered in 1996.

The 'C T Hime' bit is even more perplexing. It appears to be in single quotes like a cultivar name but there is an orchid registered with the name Blc. Chian-Tzy Hime. also registered in 1996 by Chian-Tzy Orchids. To further cloud the issue, I found a website where a number of their orchid crosses are listed and all of the names are abbreviated "C-T" which leads me to believe that "C T Hime" refers to the plant Chian-Tzy Hime.

So at this stage, this brings us to a couple of possibilities:
1) Chian-Tzy Ingenuous crossed with Chian-Tzy Hime
2) Chian-Tzy Ingenuous with a cultivar name of 'Chian-Tzy Hime' or 'CT Hime'

I've left off the generic names for a reason. My search for info on these plants uncovered some problems with their genera and has uncovered some consistency problems with their records in the RHS database. But first a bit of info you'll need to know before diving into all of this.

There are 2 species that used to be called Brassavola but some time ago were changed to Rhyncholaelia*. They are Rhy. glauca and Rhy. digbyana. Rhy. digbyana is in the background of Chian-Tzy Ingenuous. Here's where it starts to get a little tricky: I have heard (but I have not been able to confirm) that eventhough the RHS recognizes the genus of these 2 plants to be Rhyncholaelia, for the purposes of hybrid registration they are still called Brassavola. This isn't unheard of. All of the orchids we know as Encyclia today were once Epidendrum and that generic name is still the one used for forming hybrid names (for example if you cross an Encyclia with a Cattleya, the result is not an Encycliocattleya, but rather it is an Epicattleya - Epidendrum + Cattleya). If this is correct that Rhyncholaelia are considered Brassavola for the purposes of hybrid registry, then the genus resulting from a Rhyncolaelia + Cattleya is a Brassocattleya.

The first problem we encounter with the RHS database is that it sometimes lists these crosses as Rhyncolaeliocattleya* and sometimes as Brassocattleya. So depending on the convention, the genus of this plant is either Rhyncolaeliocattleya or Brassocattleya.

The RHS database entry for the other plant, Chian-Tzy Hime reveals a more complex problem. The parents of this plant are: Rhyncolaeliocattleya (aka Brassocattleya) Pastoral and Sophrocattleya Orglade's Glow but it lists, as the offspring's genus, Brassolaeliocattleya....oops.

Rhyncolaeliocattleya contains 2 genera Rhyncholaelia* (Brassavola) and Cattleya. Sophrocattleya also contains 2 genera Sophronitis and Cattleya. So according to the parents, Chian-Tzy Hime contains 3 genera: Rhyncolaelia (Brassavola), Cattleya, and Sophronitis. The correct genus for this is Rolfeara (Rolf.).

But the offspring's genera is listed as Brassolaeliocattleya which consists of: Brassavola, Laelia, and Cattleya. You can see this is incorrect as the genus Laelia does not appear in the parentage while Sophronitis which does appear in the parentage does not appear in the genus. It looks like someone mistook the "Laelia" in Rhyncholaelia to mean that the cross contained Laelia, which it doesn't and who knows what happened to the poor little Sophrinitis.

Conclusion
So you've got a plant that is either:
1) Rhyncolaeliocattleya Chian-Tzy Ingenuous 'CT Hime', or Brassocattleya Chian-Tzy Ingenuous 'CT Hime', depending on what the convention is for using Rhyncolaelia in intergeneric hybrid names, or either
2) Rhyncolaeliocattleya Chian-Tzy Ingenuous x Rolf. Chian-Tzy Hime, or Brassocattleya Chian-Tzy Ingenuous x Rolf Chian-Tzy Hime.

Anyone care to contact the RHS to have them sort this one out? pikevi, did you have any idea you'd open this kind of can of worms?

-------------------------------

*NOTE: The geneus Rhyncolaelia should not be thought to contain the genus Laelia. Rhyncolaelia is a natural genus (the genus of a species) and is not an intergeneric hybrid name like Laeliocattleya (which does contain the genus Laelia). Therefore the intergeneric name Rhyncolaeliocattleya, although it sounds like it might contain Laelia, does not. It contains only Rhyncolaelia (Brassavola) and Cattleya.

[Vivienne]

yeeeshh - that's just really really really confusing.

[kmarch]

It left my head swimming too Vivienne. Ultimately the bottom line is this: Which generic name, Rhyncolaelia or Brassavola, does the RHS use for hybrid registration? The answer to a question like this would normally be easy, you'd just look up some hybrids in the HRS database and see, but in this instance, the database entries are not consistent. So I have to look elsewhere for the answer.

[pikevi]

wow!!!!

Thanks kmarch. I never dreamt that I will have such a load of info.

As you said , the first line does not mean anything? I read it as [L. pr] or [C.pr]

I assume it is still a 'minicatt'.

I really thought the ingenous was a spelling error for "ingenuous" or "indigenous". I guess "ingenious" will fit nicely too.

Thanks very much, kmarch, Vivienne.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Pikevi, I don't think this plant looks very healthy. Check to make sure it has good roots and that there isn't any scale on it. I think I would keep this guy isolated for a while to see if the new growths come out undesicated and there are no bug problems.

[pikevi]

Thanks Cynthia. It is NOT healthy. May be that is why I got it for $10. Even the label is dying : yellow and brittle.

I bought quite a number of plants (orchids) yesterday and most are not in good shape. I have them in three trays and I gave all of them a good bath with safer's soap right after bringing them home. All the trays are tucked away in isolation under diffused sunlight.

I will check the roots when I re-pot it, hopefully by next weekend.

Will post some photos soon.