Growing Lady Slppiers in Water culture

[jerrymeola]

.
Paphs are a fabulous orchid that grows almost everywhere in the world in heavily shaded moist to bog condition forests.

To grow them in a pot they should not be allowed to dry out and also not too wet to where fungus and root rot develope.

Even in nature when the natural conditions change a field of thousands one year will disappear the next year.

They are much easier to grow in water.

Since they are a low light level plant they are perfect for a living room or bedroom, even a bright bathroom. They grow roots very slowly and can live in the crystal vase pictured for many years.

And doesn't the crystal vase look so much better than a plastic pot inside.

All orchids can grow in water culture but outside you have algae, misquitos and you have to break the glass to repot.

Basically keep the roots in water and the leaves out. Leaves sinking intot he water WILL cause the leaves to rot. It is not easy to see in the photo but there is a metal holder I make to attach the plant and keep it at a consistent light.

The rots do not rot in water because fungus needs air to grow and there is no air on the roots. If the roots are out of the water rot can develope but I have not found this to be a big problem and usually disappears when the water is added.

Fertilize very weak a half teaspoon per gallon (balanced 10-10-10 or 20-20-20). You can use fertilizer with every water change (but it clouds the water over time) or every second or third time. You can change the water as often as you want for looks but every week or two is sufficient.

my test plant (10 months) had the flowers last 4 1/2 months and the new growth grew six inches in six weeks after the flower was removed. It has never been closer to a window than 10 feet. And it is neglected as it is not in the greenhouse. It has only been fertilized twice in ten months and about 4 water changes. But do as I say not as I do - even if they are very forgiving.

[vseraphim]

Can you add some pebbles on the bottom to make it prettier? If they are steralized???

[jerrymeola]

Versapim

My wife adds those pretty glass disks you find at Pier One. I would think anything will work.

It has the advantage of holding the plant in position better,but if they are too heavy on the roots it might cause a problem. My test plant had the glass for six months at about half full and it did well. I wonder if there is anything a little lighter that still will not float. Anything sterile (washing will be sufficient) and inert will not harm the plant.

The photo has a holder to keep the plant up but with anything else in the bowl it is not as necessary as the beads will hold it in place.

[Matt]

Maybe I will do this with my Paphiopedilum. I find this site to be very useful. Thanks for the advice.

[Lucinda Brown]

How do you make your holder that keeps the paphiopedilum in place? This looks like a great idea, I have many paph's, some mystery ones I bought on special, doing great but I'd like to try this, I've spent quite a bit just on potting medium. Thanks, Lucinda Brown

[Maba]

That is such an elegant look--I am amazed you can grow orchids like that. It seems to go against all the advice about overwatering and the roots needing air. But seeing is believing--that plant is obviously lovin' it!

[Dave]

Simply amazing! I never knew it could be done...I'm gonna experiment with some of my own .

[mythymna]

wow that looks like a good idea. I'm trying it with my paph that is on its last leg. The healthy roots are way short though. I hope that they won't rot as the water level goes down during the week.

[jerrymeola]

Lucinda the holder is just bent wire. I use the green vinal covered stakes from the orchid supply houses. It is bent to clip on one edge of the container and stick up to which I tie the flower stem.

The container in the photo is a Libby candle voltive holder. Since the opening is so large the holder is necessary. Many people use the leaves to hold the plant up but then you need a smaller opening in the container.

If you look at the photo carefully it seems there are two green stems slightly different in color. One is the holder. Done carefully they are almost invisible.

Mythymna - I have reserrected sick paphs with the water treatment, if they are not too far gone. since I have had the opertunity to see the roots of many paphs I am amazed at how small the roots are. I have had a flowering paph with only 2 roots each smaller than 1/2 inch. It is still living well.

All paph roots grow extremely slow. My test plant is over a year now in water and the roots have only 1/8 inch of new growth while the new leaves have grown 6 inches.

[mythymna]

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

Mythymna - I have reserrected sick paphs with the water treatment, if they are not too far gone. since I have had the opertunity to see the roots of many paphs I am amazed at how small the roots are. I have had a flowering paph with only 2 roots each smaller than 1/2 inch. It is still living well.

All paph roots grow extremely slow. My test plant is over a year now in water and the roots have only 1/8 inch of new growth while the new leaves have grown 6 inches.

Thank you so much for your comments. My mother in law gave it to me as a gift 2 years ago. I have kept a flowering dendrobium for 7 years (so everyone in the family thinks I'm the "orchid person") but never had luck with Phal's so I half expected I wouldn't have luck with with this Paph.. He're is a picture of it now that I've suspended it (as much as possible) with the roots in the water and the growth resting on an old egg holder (the kind you keep in your fridge):



Would you recommendI keep this on the mantle (1.5 yards from window) or put it in my east facing window (we live in southern England) or another window (we have a south facing window and a west facing window as well)?

Thank you for all your help. It's nice to go somewhere and not feel stupid for asking questions.

[jerrymeola]

My test plant has never been closer to a window than 10 feet, but I abuse this plant to see what it can take. Give the plant as much light as it can take without buring or showing signs of stress. Either condition you suggested should work well.

You can remove or leave the old dead leaves. Paphs do this a lot after flowering. The new pup you have growing looks very heatly and this is where you will get the next flowering.

[Maba]

If I had that pretty little thing it would be the prize of my collection. I would NEVER abuse it (I'm shocked!) I would treat it with tender loving care. And it would probably die. :-)

I am jealous of your growing skills Jerry. I console myself thinking that being in Florida helps!

[Flower power]

Hello Jerry
I was very interested in your experiment with growing the lady slipper orchid in water. Have you tried growing any other types of orchid in just a glass of water (ie no medium) I was thinking of trying Phaelanopsis?
regards
Derek (uk)

[ryan_d_cruz]

Jerry, thanks for another of your informative articles. Did you do any thing additional to increase circulation around the plant ?? also would adding an aquarium anti -algae agent to the water allow me to keep the plant in a brighter place or will it affect the plant

[eka]

Hi,

I have recently aquired two paphs. One is Maudie and one is a hybrid of Hsinying Lajo 'Ching Hua' X Ruby Leopard 'Kuo Jang'.
would either of these be hydroponically grown?
I've grown spathaphilum (sp?) Peace Lillies like this for years.
Also I have 2 types of fertalizers
Better-Gro Orchid Bloom booster 11-35-15
and
Better-Gro Orchid Plus 20-14-13
Would either one of these be ok for the water culture?
Thanks,
Monica

[jerrymeola]

Flower Power

I have seen on the internet where other people grow everything in water, but phals may be the most difficult. I have hear of it being done but have never tried myself. I chose paphs because of the elegant look and I have a hydroponic method of growing phals that I like. But take a phal you can risk and try it. They will be very top heavy and securing it will be your major issue.

Ryan if you do not mind the look of the algae it is actually very good for the plant. A couple I had outside turned very dark green with algae and the plants seemed to love it. Possibly outside you can find another type of container that is not clear glass to look better. You can only experiment. I have no idea of an anti algacide will work but have a gut feeling that anything that kills vegetation can not be good for a plant.

Monica your paphs will work fine. The bloom boost fertilzer is an attempt to force flowering. It does not work as well on orchids as other flowers. The Plus is heavy on nitrogen to grow leaves and make a larger plant. I recomend a balanced fertilizer but you can alternate between the 2 using the Plus twice followed by the boost. This will give the plant a balanced diet without the need to buy another package of fertilizer. You could also mix them 3/4 treaspoons of Plus and 1/4 tgeaspoon of Boost in a gallon of water and this will be balanced.

[katrina]

I'm curious....is the plant still alive? How are your water culture paphs doing Jerry?

To be perfectly frank...I just don't see how they would survive long term in that type of set up. Any updates on your trials w/this growing method?

[Ray]

Rod Venger (of the now-defunct Venger's Orchids from Colorado Springs) started this technique about 15 years ago, and was successful with a wide variety of plants.

It works because the plants - as you have heard me say before - grow roots that are tailored to the environment in which they grow, so function perfectly well there. Submersing old roots will surely suffocate them. It's the same as moving a plant into S/H culture, only more extreme.

I do have to disagree with Jerry's comment that there is no oxygen in water, there's actually plenty in equilibrium with air:


A couple of things that Rod noted:

• Algae is a good thing, as Jerry mentioned. The waste products that build up in the water will become a nasty breeding ground for bacteria, making the water stink to high heavens. Algae apparently consumes some of the wastes, keeping the water clearer longer.
• It is important with some genera that the water temperature be kept at a minimum of 70°F, or the roots will not grow and may die. I think this is especially the case with phals.

[-k-]

Yeah.... My interest has been raised through the roof on this one, don't know how I have not stumbled across this thread before! Would love to know the outcome to this experiment!

[Irene]

I currently have several in water that also have LECA in it, I guess to help hold it up.

They are doing well so far. But it's early yet

[kmarch]

I'd never noticed this thread before but I see it was started in 2006 which was a whole year before I joined the forum. Anyway, it contains a few factual mistakes that I think are important to correct:

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

Paphs are a fabulous orchid that grows almost everywhere in the world in heavily shaded moist to bog condition forests.

While it is an absolute, undeniable, irrefutable FACT that paphs are fabulous, (he, he, he) the rest of the statement is factually inaccurate. Paphs are only found naturally in southern and south-eastern Asia and the tropical Asian Pacific islands. While many of them do grow in heafily shaded areas, they do not grow in bogs. Many paphs grow on limestone cliffs, in cracks filled with leaf litter.

It sounds like Jerry might be talking about Cypripediums here because they are native to most of North America, Europe, and Asia and some of them do live in damp forested areas. There is of course a huge difference between Paphs and Cyps and when discussing their habitats it's important to know the differences.

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

Even in nature when the natural conditions change a field of thousands one year will disappear the next year.

Again it sounds like Paph and Cyp habitats are being confused. This statement can be true for Cyps who grow from small tubers or stolons which must be grown anew every year if the population is to survive. If for some reason a population of Cyps does not grow new stolons, the next year no Cyps will grow in that area.

This however is not true for Paphs. Paphs tend to form small (in some cases large) colonies that persist from year to year. While old growths do die off new growths are always present in various stages of development and large populations are usually not wiped out completely unless they're collected or unless some other disaster occurs.

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

All orchids can grow in water culture...

This is an over generalization. Mostly because I think Jerry is probably mostly talking about epiphytic/lythophytic or perhaps semi-terrestrial orchids (I'm guessing)?

[Irene]

There was another thread about this too. This other thread had more pictures and, I think, showed a paph that had been in water and then moved to water and LECA. That's the thread where I got the idea to try it. I can't locate it now, though.

[Brooke]

Ray is correct about phals in s/h not liking cool temps. I only heat the g/h to 62 and I think the water/Prime Agra was just too chilly for them. My mottle leaved paphs also didn't like it - I wonder if they didn't like those cool temps either?

Brooke

[kmarch]

It's possible Brooke. My experiences with the mottle leaf paphs (normal culture not s/h or water culture) is that they will tolerate the cooler temps but perform best with warmer (intermediate) temps. I keep mine at about 15C minimum (59F).

[Irene]

Here are my paphs in water

sorry so blurry





Here is one that's going to my mom. It has a new growth on the left side, just above the second leaf from the bottom.

[kmarch]

Interesting Irene and thanks for posting. Can you give us some more details about how you're caring for these? Do you change the water? If yes, how often? Do you use any additives, fertilizers, etc?

[Irene]

Here's a better pic




These were only transplanted from their nursery medium to the LECA and water a few weeks ago. Probably early to call it a success.

I keep the water below the edge of the pot, to keep the lower leaves from sitting in it (learned that the hard way and lost a leaf). When the water level goes down about 1/2 inch, I fill back up. I have not replaced the water yet. I'm keeping an eye on it but want the roots to get a better hold before I turn the pots on end.

I have 20/20/20 fertilizer very diluted. I add water to the container with a spray bottle. I also have the fertilizer water in a spray bottle. I give the container a squirt or two with the fertilizer water and then spray it down with the regular water, to make sure the fertilizer gets well mixed and doesn't sit on the roots. I've also given them a squirt or two of Superthrive.


The phals on either end of them are in S/H. The one on the left was in Sphag and too wet. The one on the right was on a mount and too dry. They both seem happier in the S/H.

eta: I don't fertilize with every watering. They get topped off every day but only fertilized about once a week or less.

eta2: I'm thinking about trying it with pretty glass pebbles instead of LECA

[katrina]

Interesting Irene! I sure hope you keep us posted on these guys...I'm curious to see how all of this goes.

One thought/pondering over the fert regimen. If you're not dumping the water and replacing w/fresh...I would be concerned over a fertilizer build up over time. ?? You know...while it's diluted today....2 or 3 months from now all those diluted fert sprays would equate to a much stronger concentration down in the glass. Again...just a note/pondering on my part when I was reading your post.

Thanks for sharing Irene!

[Irene]

Thank you for bringing that up, katrina. I hadn't thought of that. If I'm going to do the fertilizer thing, I'm going to have to figure out how to change that water.

I'll post update pics. How long should the intervals be?

[englandfx]

I think I will experiment with Phalaenopsis being grown in water!

I have a phal that I can spare and experiment with

[sunshine]

1. Is hydroton and LECA the same thing

2. Is Phaphiopedlum Snow Squall (delentii x greyii 'Ching Hua') a good candidate for this type of culture and what about a phrag

3. How deep do you plant your chid.

[Irene]

1) Hydroton is a type of LECA.

2) I'm a newbie so won't try to answer that. I want to try my Phrag in it but haven't had the courage yet.

3) I planted them high enough that the leaves did not sit in water.


eta: Keep in mind that I only moved mine to the water culture a few weeks ago. It's early still. They could all keel over tomorrow (although, the one I have picked out for my mom is growing a new bud ) .

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by sunshine

1. Is hydroton and LECA the same thing

The answer to this can be found in our orchidgeeks dictionary:
http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/glo...s/12365-h.html
http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/glo...s/12369-l.html

Originally Posted by sunshine

2. Is Phaphiopedlum Snow Squall (delentii x greyii 'Ching Hua') a good candidate for this type of culture and what about a phrag

IMHO, although I have not tried water culture, I think the phrag would make a much better candidate than the Paph, unless it is a catudatum-type phrag. Phrags love water and even when grown in bark mixes, non-caudatum paphs are often grown sitting in trays of water, so a sort of S/H. And (he says sheepishly), I have ulterior motives for suggesting the Phrag in addition to its better suited needs, Paph Snow Squall is one of my all time favorite Brachy hybrids and I'd hate to see it go the way of the angels as an experiment. BTW, Paph Greyi (note spelling - only one "i") is a hybrid and not a species so Greyi should be capitalized.

Originally Posted by sunshine

3. How deep do you plant your chid.

Originally Posted by Irene

I keep the water below the edge of the pot, to keep the lower leaves from sitting in it (learned that the hard way and lost a leaf).

[Brooke]

Sunshine my delantii did not care for s/h. Most phrags love it. As Kevin said a caudatum won't and some bessae won't but to make it more confusing, some bessae love it. What is the name of your phrag?

Brooke

[sunshine]

Originally Posted by Brooke

Sunshine my delantii did not care for s/h. Most phrags love it. As Kevin said a caudatum won't and some bessae won't but to make it more confusing, some bessae love it. What is the name of your phrag?

Brooke

Here is the name of my phrag
Phrag. Magdaline Rose x wallissi

How long do you soak your hydroton (LECA) for?

And yes, now I'm really confused

Thanks Kevin, I don't want my Snow Squall to go to the angels just yet. It has just finished blooming not too long ago.

[Irene]

The first bit, I soaked for 24 hours or so.

Now, I keep it all in a large mixing bowl of water. I grab out what I need and rinse it off well in a colander before using it.

[kmarch]

Phrag wallisii is one of the members of the caudatum group but Magdalene Rose is one of the water-loving phrags. So it's difficult to know how well your phrag will take to the water culture.

If I can offer a suggestion, whenever I want to experiment with something that is radically different than conventional orchid culture (which I admit has not been often or recently) I would go out and buy as cheap (yet still healthy) plant as I could. For example if I wanted to try a paph in this water culture, I'd go out and see if I could find a $5-10 noid Maudiae-type (as they seem to be little more tolerant of a range of conditions) and then experiment with that - essentially experimenting with a plant I have no emotional attachment to (gosh this orchid growing gets complicated doesn't it?).

[Brooke]

Sunshine an orchid that doesn't like s/h doesn't fall over dead. You can tell if they are happy and growing or if they go backwards. With your work schedule, s/h could be a great answer for your 'chids that are water hogs.

I would wait until you have active new growth before any switch.

Brooke

[sunshine]

Thanks Brooke and Kevin. When I bought my phrag I paid a whole whooping $12 as it is in a 2 in pot. Was told to keep it in about inch of water. There's times I come home and it has drank every drop water. My phrag sit's with my catts. I really like Irene's set up and it looks really nice. I have seen those glass vases/pots in the craft section at Walmart. This is one of my goals is to experiment with different mediums and kinda shyed away from s/h as it sounded and looked complicated to do. But this way looks a lot easier and less complicated.

Yes Kevin, I am attached to all my plants. But sometimes mother nature has other plans. Gives me a good excuse to go to the nursey and buy another

[Irene]

Sunshine, if you have a Dollar Tree take a look there for containers. I found the ones I used at Dollar Tree and the same ones were at Walmart for more than a dollar. Except the one that's going to Mom. I did get that one at Walmart (around 3 dollars).

Look in the candle section as well as glasses and vases. The short square ones are candle holders.

[Irene]

I took the plunge with my Prag, figuring that it's media is kept so wet (sitting in saucer of water) that the change wouldn't shock it.

Here it is


This guy has 6 new growths. I tried to photo the larger ones




Do you think I should plant this deeper?




eta: camera has some serious contrast (Only had it 2 days. Still figuring it out). The dark parts of the plant aren't that dark in reality. I don't suspect any rot.

[Brooke]

Sunshine s/h is not hard or confusing. If the plant likes it, it is a very easy way to grow them. IMO, the closed containers would be harder to maintain the proper conditions optimal for growth and would need constant vigil. Ray on this forum has great, easy to understand directions on setting up a s/h container.

Irene IMO I would lower the plant in the container. Active phrag roots have hairs on them and new roots are very susceptible to drying out if they remain out of the media. You might also reduce the amount of water in your container. Phrags want their toes to dangle in the water, not their butts

Phrags are not heavy feeders and will show their distaste for fertilizer/high sodium content of water with brown tips on the foliage.

Brooke

[Irene]

Originally Posted by Brooke

Phrags want their toes to dangle in the water, not their butts

Hah! thank you!

And thanks for the other advice. I'll try lowering the plant and the water. I use Distilled water for the plants in the water culture. Didn't know about the fertilizer so thanks for that too!

[Irene]

Quick update.

I've never had any of these types of plants before so I don't know the rate they usually grow and bloom. The little paph I have for my mother has a new bloom and has been in the water culture for 3-4 weeks. There is another bud and I think a 4th developing behind it. Looks like the little growth on the left side has gotten a little bigger too. Although the second pic is a closer shot

At any rate, the paphs are not declining yet. Keeping a close eye on them.

I'm thinking about getting a tiny hose from an aquarium shop to syphon out the water so I can put in fresh.

Previous photo from 12/24/09


Tonight 12/28/09



eta: Brooke, I repotted my phrag a little deeper, as you suggested (and lowered the water to keep his butt dry). His bloom is now opening too. Here's the shot from tonight:


These guys both sit in front of a SW window, behind other plants and with the blinds partially closed to keep the mid-day sun off of them while I'm at work.

[Schlyne]

What paph is that? It'd be nice to have a white multifloral...

[Irene]

Both are noids.

The camera doesn't show it but the flower has a little pink on the top petal and some spots. I'll see if I can find a link to a similar flower.

[Schlyne]

Oh well. I have a detailed paph book, so I can figure out what paphs species or ones that would go into something like that to give me a white multifloral, and I can always ask the growers. If you can't find a similiar link, that's ok.
I'm sure it's got Paph niveum in it somewhere and it has to have a multifloral species in it.

EDIT: Ok, I feel quite impressed with myself and my growing knowledge. I looked at your paph and said ok, it has to have this, and by the shape and the multifloral it probably has Paph primulinum in it and stuck that into the RHS and that gives me Paphiopedilum Ron Williamson which looks like http://lh4.ggpht.com/__TUb3W9tNB0/R8..._02%20copy.jpg And I have to say that looks remarkably like your paph.

And I did that without looking anything up

[Irene]

Nice work! I'd say that looks very much like my flowers, minus the little blush of pink on top.

[kmarch]

Paph Ron Williamson is certainly a good possibility. It is most certainly a cross between something from the Brachypetalum section (e.g. niveum, godefroyae, bellatulum, et al) and something from the Cochlopetalum (e.g. primulinum, et al). It will unfortunately be impossible to be certain precisely which one it is, but as Ron Williamson is probably more commonly found than some of the others, I'd think that was the most likely possibility. Is there any chance you could go back to the seller and get some more info?

[Irene]

I don't know how knowledgeable the folks at this shop are. The owners are never there and the employees don't seem to know a lot.

The phrag was bone dry when I bought it and the roots and whatever they were wrapped around were hard as a rock.

They do have some ID tags on some of the plants, but, not all. They don't seem to replace them when they fall out. This paph was the only one left of it's kind, in with a bunch of Pinocchio. They lady who rang it up said "oh you should water that."

None of the phals are IDd.They label them by the color of the flowers. "Purple orchid, pink orchid, white orchid".

[Irene]

Tonight the flower dropped off my Pinocchio. Looked fine yesterday and then I find it on the floor a few moments ago. Is that how they do it? Maybe this one doesn't like the water? This is the same plant that I lost a leaf from by letting it rest in the water.

It can be seen in the group shot from 12/24/09. The tallest spike.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Irene

Tonight the flower dropped off my Pinocchio. Looked fine yesterday and then I find it on the floor a few moments ago. Is that how they do it?

That's how they do it. I have a paph flower that has been open for some time. Yesterday it looked fine, today it's all brown and shriveled and will probably drop off today or tomorrow. How long did the flower last? My experience with primulinum is that they do not put out as many blooms as other Cochlopetalum species, especially if taken to a new environment or repotted. It seems like a lot fo people grow Paph primulinum here on the forum. Maybe some of them can chime in with their experiences as well.

[Irene]

It was in bloom when I got it. I got it some time in November. Maybe a little before Thanksgiving.

This morning I noticed the bud on that spike is just barely starting to open.

[LauraGR]

Irene - the presentation is so pretty as well. I do wonder if in a little time it will get all green even out of direct light, and then how to clean except to pull the whole thing out - same as your question of changing the water. I'll be interested if the little hose does the trick.
I have a Pinocchio and yes, the flowers just drop off when they're done - sometimes I didn't think they looked like they were done but they knew better.

[Irene]

That new flower turned out to be quite pretty, imo. (I lost the older bloom yesterday)


Do not let the leaves sit in the damp. I thought it was just the water that damaged them. However, today I found that one of my leaves was rotting due to just being in contact with one piece of LECA. This LECA was not in water itself. The leaf came from the lower right side. The pics will show what I mean.







You can see that I don't keep the water high. I guess the moisture wicking up from the LECA was enough. I found a piece of LECA touching the leaf where the leaf was browning.

As an aside, my pinocchio bud is blooming, after losing the flower a couple of days ago.





eta: I have not yet changed the water. The pretty white one is going to Mom tomorrow so I will try to change the water before I head out.

[Irene]

Syphoning works.

I didn't get the small aquarium hose yet so I used a flexible straw. Could only get the short end of the straw about 2/3 of the way into the pot, due to the length of the straw. Got it started and the water drained right out, down to the level of the end of the straw. Then I filled back up with new water.

I am happy to say that when I was getting the water flow started, I noticed that the water had no flavor other than water. No fungus or mold or anything like that. Just clean water taste.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by Irene

Syphoning works.

I didn't get the small aquarium hose yet so I used a flexible straw. Could only get the short end of the straw about 2/3 of the way into the pot, due to the length of the straw. Got it started and the water drained right out, down to the level of the end of the straw. Then I filled back up with new water.

Something to be aware of...if the plants take off and do well in that set up...the roots will glue the clay pellets together as if someone had used superglue and it will become vitually impossible to get anything squeezed down in there. You might want to rig it w/a permanent straw that you can put the hose into or over for any future water changes.

Originally Posted by Irene

I am happy to say that when I was getting the water flow started, I noticed that the water had no flavor other than water. No fungus or mold or anything like that. Just clean water taste.

EWWWWW I don't believe I would want to accidentally taste water coming out of the vase.

[Irene]

Originally Posted by katrina

Something to be aware of...if the plants take off and do well in that set up...the roots will glue the clay pellets together as if someone had used superglue and it will become vitually impossible to get anything squeezed down in there. You might want to rig it w/a permanent straw that you can put the hose into or over for any future water changes.

That's a good idea. I'm hoping that when the roots take good hold, I can just tip the container and let the water spill out.

EWWWWW I don't believe I would want to accidentally taste water coming out of the vase.

Have you never been swimming in a lake or the ocean? At least my vase doesn't have fish poo in it

[maiseymoo]

This is a really interesting thread, I have three paphs now and I find I am watering them much more than the phals I may try this and see what happens. I have two that are at a flowering size and one that is a seedling size, which one should I try

[katrina]

Originally Posted by Irene

Have you never been swimming in a lake or the ocean? At least my vase doesn't have fish poo in it

Actually...no, not in years. But when I did...well...you got a point about the water however, I never swallowed it on purpose. LOL!! Still...yuck.

Originally Posted by maiseymoo

This is a really interesting thread, I have three paphs now and I find I am watering them much more than the phals I may try this and see what happens. I have two that are at a flowering size and one that is a seedling size, which one should I try

If you're going to try it...I would use one that you don't mind losing should it not like having wet feet.

[maiseymoo]

I may try it with the smaller one as it hasn't flowered yet so don't mind (so much). Will keep you posted I need to find a suitable glass container first..

[kmarch]

What are the three paphs you have maisymoo? The one pictures at the start of this thread is a Maudiae-type hybrid. Maudiae-type hybrids tend to be tolerant of a wider range of conditions (or less than ideal conditions) and so in some instances make better subjects for unique growing methods such as this. It might be easier ot know which of your 3 to try this method on if we knew what they were.

[maiseymoo]

My three paphs are Pahpiodilum Luna Moth x Maudia (average size, just finsihed flowering two days ago) Pahpiopedilum Spicerianum (one average size plant and one that is quite small)

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by maiseymoo

My three paphs are Pahpiodilum Luna Moth x Maudia (average size, just finsihed flowering two days ago)

This cross has been registered and named. It is: Paphiopedilum Hsinying Luna.

Originally Posted by maiseymoo

Pahpiopedilum Spicerianum (one average size plant and one that is quite small)

This orchid is a species so no capital "S" on spicerianum.

Of these two, I'd say the first one, Paph Hsinying Luna is the better candidate. On the other hand Paph spicerianum is a pretty hardy orchid so it might work too....

That's not much help is it.

[maiseymoo]

It is a help as now I know the proper names and spelling! I think that I may try it with the smaller spicerianum as I would prefer to lose a smaller plant that hasn't flowered yet rather than a larger one that I have seen the flowers on! Although as you say the Paph Hsinying Luna is more hardy and this is uite a large plant so it may cope better. See now I am confusing myself!! Firstly I need to find a suitable container and then get some LECA or could I just use pebbles if I clean them first??
Decisions decisons!!!

[Schlyne]

Wait and get the LECA. The LECA will have the wicking action

[maiseymoo]

Wicking action?? Is this where the troots have something to grow round? There is always something new to learn!!

[Irene]

Update:

Do you remember how I grossed katrina out with my water syphoning? Well she was right! It got nasty in short time. It was like sucking swamp water. I also noticed a really bad smell coming from the pots. So I started dumping the water completely and replacing with new water (distilled). Still the ugh swamp smell. So then I was dumping water and washing plants. The fresh, clean plant smell didn't last long.

Then I saw ysanabria's post with her funny water beads. I remembered I had a bunch of glass beads and replaced the LECA for glass beads in one of my Paph's pots. The plant seemed to perk up immediately. It was in good shape to start with but still it was noticeable.

Then I noticed my Phrag. UGH! So I dumped him out, washed him up, and put him in glass beads with water too.

Tonight, I repotted another Paph in glass beads and water.

Don't know if this will help keep them fresh. I was thinking that maybe the LECA was storing the nasty stuff, so that it stuck around even when changing water.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Ok here are some pics:

[Brooke]

No the LECA wasn't to blame, nor will the glass beads be to blame, it is the fact you are growing them in a bog. You have created an atmosphere where clean water and oxygen cannot get to the roots.

If you want to grow them in water culture, s/h would be the way to go. If you want them in pretty clear vases, holes can be drilled with the proper drill bit. The containers can then be flooded with water to make sure oxygen gets to the roots.

You will also need to switch back to LECA for the wicking action unless you intend to water daily.

Brooke

[katrina]

Yeah, I was afraid of this Irene. Ditto what Brooke said. Anaerobic bacteria...they do get stinky.


Jerry-- An update would be quite helpful for those who are trying or thinking about trying this set up. I'm thinking it didn't make it long term but..obviously...I could be wrong.

[Irene]

I would like an update from Jerry too.

Here's another thread where he talks about it:
Tutorial - hydroponic Lady Slippers

[Irene]

Yes, yes I understand about anaerobic bacteria. It can be washed off of glass beads easily. Not so easily from LECA, as it has been absorbed.

Brooke, have you seen the posts/pics from that person on 'another board' that grows their orchids almost exclusively in water? What are your thoughts on that? The plants seem to be doing well except for discoloration of the water from algae. Although the poster doesn't seem to mind it, and, I rather like algae too.

[Brooke]

I don't frequent the other board so can't offer an opinion. I have grown non-orchid plants in a hydroponics system and orchids in s/h and know how they work supplying fresh water and oxygen to the roots.

I don't know if your system would be fine for other species but phrags and paphs are super picky about clean fresh media and water quality. Since both of those species have fine hairs on the roots necessary for good health, repotting constantly might cause them not to flourish.

You can clean your LECA with bleach and remove any toxins.

Brooke

[Irene]

Oh ok. I saw some of your posts over there but they might have been from a long time ago. I do tend to go far back in a forum to look at ealier posts.

Anyway, I know I can't post links here but I guess it's ok to give it out in PMs? Right? So if anyone wants a link to some really interesting info about growing in water, I guess you can PM me for it. If that's against the rules, please let me know so I don't do it again.