Den cane problem

[Sharyn]

Brief History: This den was received in January frozen. It seems to be recovering, however, I'm not sure that all is well.

Pic #1 shows new growth starting - no new roots yet.
Pic #2 flower stem forming
Pic#3 Lower left front small pbulb dying off - that's normal
The problem is with the tallest cane: (Upper right hand side) large cane soft & turning yellow about two-three inches from the base of the cane. Only the bottom portion is soft to the touch. The rest of the cane is green and firm as you can see from the middle picture.

Question: I don't know if it's just dying off now or if it should be removed due to the soft tissue. Suggestions?

[BillC]

Sharyn, I have not come up against this kind of thing before. From the look of the third pic, and from your description it would appear that some form of rot is causing the softness and yellowing in the lower part of the cane. But if you have examined the cane beneath the media level and have not found any rot then I suggest for the time being you carry on as normal but carefully monitor the area which is soft and yellowing. If the softness increases or starts to move higher up the cane then I would recommend you remove the cane completely. I am sure that you have looked for bugs and not found any, so the cause of the trouble would probably not respond to any sort of pesticide. It really needs someone with experience of this particular problem to help.

Keep updating, Bill

[Sharyn]

Thanks Bill. I haven't totally removed it from the pot to check underneath the cane. I gently pulled it out of the pot half-way. I couldn't see any bugs - have been using worm tea - no sign of critters; the roots, from what I saw, looked good. I think for the time being, I'll wait until it flowers and then repot. At that time, I should be able to see if the cane is rotting underneath. Hopefully, it won't sustain further damage. If I do need to remove the cane, I'll probably be asking for help.

Thanks for your reply.

[kmarch]

Sharyn,

I have had this happen with Dens. Cut the mushy cane off, all the mushy flesh if possible and treat with cinnamon. Take a look at your culture. I would usually see this in winter when my temps were cooler. I believe it was bing caused by the combination of being cool and wet at the same time. I've lost 3-4 of these types of Dens this way.

[Sharyn]

Originally Posted by kmarch

I believe it was being caused by the combination of being cool and wet at the same time.

That makes sense Kevin. It was pretty cool all winter and even through our Spring this year. Just turned warm a couple weeks ago. A lesson for me to give less water in those cooler periods.

Do you think I should remove this cane immediately or wait until after it flowers? If I wait, I know it's a risk of more damage, but I'd really like to see what this den looks like in bloom.

[kmarch]

Sharyn,

Is it the spiking cane that is getting mushy?

Maybe we're not talking about the same kind of "mushy." The mushy I'm talking about gets really mushy really fast, and just within a few days most of the cane is almost over-ripe banana kind of mushy. It's quite a drastic thing.

Maybe you are talking about a slight softening of the cane? That can happen when the cane's stores are being depleted. A cane can soften a little then beef back up.

Tell me more about the "mushy."

[Sharyn]

No, it's not the spiking cane. If you look at my pics above - middle pick shows the spike. The soft cane is the one to the right (green almost all the way up, except the bottom 3 inches, which are yellowed and soft to the touch - not real mushy). Photo on the right shows the discoloration.

[kmarch]

Ok, it's like I thought then. You don't have to repot to remove the bulb, just cut it off, the sooner the better in my opinion.

[Sharyn]

Surgery performed! Removed the cane. Hopefully, the others will be ok. If not, it will prove to be "another learning" experience. Finding the remedies for problems is not quite as easy as finding normal cultural information. Most people don't post pictures of their worst looking orchids on the internet, so it's hard to compare problems and find cures without experience and know-how. Thankfully, Kevin, you have both. Thanks again for your help.

[kmarch]

Sharyn (and everyone else too), the American Orchid Sciety has published a book I think is titled Orchid Pests & Diseases which is really quite a good book to assist in diagnosing and treating these little things that pop up. It's not expensive either. check it out at the AOS website bookstore at www.aos.org

[Sharyn]

Well, the cane was removed and treated with cinnamon. In the process, I damaged one small new growth while cutting off the cane, however, the other larger new growth on the opposite side is doing well.

Several buds blasted, but a few are opening now. Just wanted to see the color of the flowers before I removed the flower spike, which I think the den will recover better if removed. The camera color does not represent the true color. It's actually much darker - almost a blackish maroon, so I don't know why this den was labeled Den. Blue 'Hawaii' - maybe mislabled?

Anyway, thank you Kevin for the advice to save this den. It seems to be doing pretty well.

[kmarch]

Glad to hear your Den is on the road to recovery! It won't be long and you'll be a pro at diagnosing these things too!

Cheers!

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

In a case like this, where the plant has some growing to do to get back to normal size and strength, it is better for the new growth if the plant is only having to put energy into one new growth. The downside to removing the smaller of the two, and I have done it many times, is that you don't have a backup if something goes wrong with the remaining growth. In your case I would probably have removed one of the growths, as the plant looks fairly strong compared to the plants I will leave all growths on. Did you cut off the discolored cane as low as possible? I would have taken a sterile pruner and reached down into the pot to the point where the neighbor cane was attached and cut there. But by now, all results should be in if a problem was going to continue. I guess this post came up while I was emersed in my repotting. Looks like a really nice color. I also have a problem getting pictures of really dark reds. They always come out bright red.

[Sharyn]

Thanks for your input Cynthia.

Originally Posted by Cynthia, Prescott, AZ

In a case like this, where the plant has some growing to do to get back to normal size and strength, it is better for the new growth if the plant is only having to put energy into one new growth.

Now I don't feel so bad about destroying the little growth. I intend to remove the flower spike today to give it a better chance to spend it's energy only on new growth.

Did you cut off the discolored cane as low as possible? I would have taken a sterile pruner and reached down into the pot to the point where the neighbor cane was attached and cut there.

Yes, and I learned this technique from one of your previous posts. Thank you for your teaching tip.