Vandas-newbie

[Jaydiggity21]

Hello all,
I am new to orchids and absolutely love them, and now have a few questions. I currently own 2 cymb, 1 phal, and 10 vandas that I got off of Ebay. At the time, I did nit know much about the vandas, and so i potted them in a medium orchid mix (from miracle grow) with perlite mixed in to improve drainage. I actually potted them in plastic cups (the type from keg parties) because that is all I had at the time that was small enough for these little specimens. Anyways, I got many holes in the cups to improve air circulation, and I fastened a wooden stick across the top of each and fastened the vandas on this stick. Consequently, some of the vandas have roots in the medium with some others sticking out. I have been misting them in the morning every day, and give them full sun from about 2 pm - sunset. I live in San Francisco, so the temps (i have a thermometer right at the place that I keep the vandas) range from approx 60 F to 90 F on any given day. The problem is that lately we have been having 3 days with nice sunny weather and then 3 days with nothing but fog, like a cycle. At the beginning, I had put some moss over the mix and under the vandas, but I took that away so that I could actually see the roots so that I could follow their progress. I have had them this way for something like 2-3 weeks, and some are doing ok (although all seem to have lost the set of leaves closest to the roots), while some seem not so ok. Also, for the last 2 days I have put a mini greenhouse plastic hood over them to increase the humidity, but I feel that this might either increase the chances of fungus growth and/or decrease the air circulation around the roots. I haven't actually watered the vandas since i got them because I am using the wooden skewer method and the skewer has not yet dried out. So, after that long-winded intro., my question is what should I do? Do these vandas have a chance, or is my impulsiveness and naivity going to lead to their ultimate demise? My thinking was that since some of the roots are not in the medium, that the medium could serve as a sort of humidifier for the plant, but who knows? Another point about my situation is that I am a medical student, so the money is not there to get all fancy. Thanks so much for any help and insight into this matter!

Jason

[prisana]

Hello Jason , welcome to the forum.
I have not tried vandas in the pots before , so I don't know how much I can help, but I'll try.
Vandas love, love, love water. Depending on what type of Vandas you have , only the ones with pencil-shaped leaves love full sun. The rest will not do well in the full afternoon sun, it's much too hot for them. Sounds like you have small plants or seedlings to fit in the cups, only the more raason to get them out of full sun. All my Vandas grow in baskets, with no medium, but I soak them everyday for at least 20 mins .

I would give them more shades--up to 50% , or more if they are seedlings . They don't like their roots to be messed with or constricted by anything, I hope someone with experience in growing vandas in pots will sign on and help you. You can also go to Home Depot or wallmart and get small wodden baskets for hanging , they're like 2 dollars each should you decide to try to grow them in baskets. It's super easy, you don't have to worry about them getting their roots rotten or repotting, all you'll have to do is make sure they get enough water everyday and when it's time to repot , just set them into a bigger baskets and ...viola!!! Good luck

[palito]

hi Jason.

the key for vandas is water, water and more water. If they dont have enough water every day the roots will suffer and the plant will drop the lower leaves faster than normal. you need to water them heavily or soak their roots in water every day or mist them several times a day every single day.

You can grow them as small plants in pots with coarse media to try to make the watering less demanding. but the roots will eventually grow several foot long out of the pots so any potting media really is irrelevant then and you will be a slave of the soak/mist routine as with any other bareroot vanda. so you might as well consider what prisana posted and think about growing in baskets so you can adapt to the vanda regime.

[kmarch]

Jay, First off, if your plants are growing roots (and possibly leaves too?) then they're doing what they're supposed to do and they aparently like the conditions you're giving them enough that they're rewarding you wiht growth. 2-3 days or even 2-3 weeks isn't long enough to expect any significant results. It sounds like you're doing just fine.

You are correct to think that covering them and thus raising the humidity will also increase the possibility of mold/fungus growth and decrease the air circulation. Vandas do like humidity and they may do a little better if you can somehow up the humidity some. But you don't say what your humidity level is so we can't say for certain if you need more. If you keep them covered, add a small fan (probably a small oscilating fan will suffice) to address the concerns of decreased air circulation and fungus.

Take a look at the Vanda culture sheet given out free of charge by the American Orchid Society (www.aos.org) and consider to what extent you are already giving them this culture and what else might be necessary. To my ear though it sounds like you are doing fine if they are growing nice roots. Orchid seedlings are not necessarily the fastest growing things and so patience is warranted.

Note about giving cultural advice:
There are lots of friendly folks on the forum who are eager to be helpful which is good. It is important however to be careful and not assume that the culture we give our plants in our particular part of the world applies to everyone in other parts of the world. Many (most?) parts of Texas are dry compared to San Francisco. If someone in a cooler more humid location watered as heavily as is required in somewhere like Texas, they may run the risk of loosing their roots to rot, especially if grown potted. In this sense saying somethign like, "Vandas like moisture and humidity so don't let the roots dry out." is much more helpful than saying, "Water every day." The first tells what the plant likes, the second only tells what you do in your conditions in your location which may be completely different than the conditions and location of the person seeking advice.

Cheers! and Happy Growing!

[palito]

oops Thanks kmarch. I should have written in those terms. high humidity and moisture. However, regardless of geographical location, vandas are not really suited for pot culture in the long run, just because of the nature of the plant itself as it grows old. Their long roots cant be kept in a pot in the end they will become just bare root vandas and the problem of how to keep the high humidity and air circulation for a thick bundle of 5 ft long hanging roots will be apparent.

[tom499]

Do not be worried about losing the occassional leaf at the bottom, I have big aerial roots that just push through the leaves from the stem (total rogues ) and go on growing.

I would also recommend a basket i possible. With a basket, you can put moss inside it, so that you can help retain moisture near some of the roots. now as already mentioned, Vanda roots grow and grow and grow! and you eventually have metre long aerial roots But as they grow out, with baskets, you can add a bigger basket around the older smaller one, and let the new roots grow into the bigger basket. I would also attach the new basket to the old one.

You have gone for the pot technique, which is viable as long as you allow for major root growth. Vanda's DO NOT like their roots disturbed, I'm not sure how big yours are, but if you choose to repot, which i think i would do, then you will probably go a year without flowers, but baskets do offer an easy watering method in the long run as you can easily attach more.


P.S. what Vanda's do you have?

[tom499]

Sorry! i messed up the pot against basket point.

What i mean is:

You will need to change the pot as it grows, as a pot is more retaining on the plant than a basket.

A basket is pretty much just a way to hold the plant upright, The roots can do whatever they want and can grow and grow without a problem.

I would also be thinking of a greenhouse for growing vanda's. They like humidiy, warmth and plenty of water. A greenhouse can give all 3 for less hassle. I'm sure San Francisco is hot, so you need to be watering it alot.

Having a basket and no medium means you can have a mister spraying maybe every hour onto the roots (lightly) would be a good thing in the summer, as your light and heat levels are going to be great, you just need to keep the humidity up, and of course the watering too.

So what im basically trying to say You have alot of vandas and so it is maybe worth investing in equipment like misters to grow them all.

I dont fancy dunking 10 vandas a day, for an hour each

[kmarch]

palito, Nothing to worry it's something we all do, and it is something I have to think about every single time I give cultural advice. I constantly have to ask myself, "Am I telling them what the plant likes or what I like?"

Regarding the whole basket debate, there's a whole thread somewhere on the forum in which people debate back and forth whether they should be grown in pots or not. I think it is Cynthia that grows lots of Vandas all in pots with good success. It is often the case, with people who grow them roots hanging bare, that they either have a nice humid green house or live in a warmer locale and water/mist/soak the roots often. Pot culture can aid in raising th humidity/moisture level around the roots.

I only have 1 vanda and grow it in a clear plastic pot. I can see the moisture condensed on the inner surface of the pot. When it is starting to look dry I water. I have lots, and lots of nce healrhy white roots circling around inside the pot and the plant is currently putting out a new leaf.

I need ot grow more vandas before I make up my mind but I am heavilt leaning toward the opinion that it makes no difference what the plant is grown in, pot, basket, or old boot, as long as it gets the cnditions it likes.

I reserve the right to change my mind without notice.

Oh and also, something I didn't think of before, Jay's working with seedlings not mature plants. I think it is wide to give seedlings slightly gentler conditions than usual a little more warmth a little more moisture. I forgot about that when writing earlier.

[tom499]

OOHHH If we're working with seedlings then its a nice clear pot anyway
I wouldnt put a vanda in a basket until the roots are quite big and could then start growing round the basket to help hold it in.

I believe that thread was marred by a member who was supporting baskets being abusive, so maybe doesnt give such a good view of baskets

Personally i think Vanda's look nicer in a basket with their roots hanging down, but growing them like this does take a lot of either time or equipment.
I am lucky to have time to care for mine, and mine have not quite got the huge roots yet.

I think kmarchs point is a good one to finish on

quote:
I need ot grow more vandas before I make up my mind but I am heavilt leaning toward the opinion that it makes no difference what the plant is grown in, pot, basket, or old boot, as long as it gets the cnditions it likes.

[kmarch]

Complete with my numerous typos. Thank goodness you guys read what I mean instead of what I type.

[chefatplay]

Typos or not, Kevin I read every word of your posts, I have learned a lot from you.

[flowerchild]

My aunt and I purchased vanda's the same day, she potted hers and I left mine in the little basket(much too small). After about a month her vanda's roots were mushy and gross looking, mine were not great as a bunch had fallen off from adjusting to its new enviroment. She has now put into a big Vanda basket and it is doing much better. Mine was just put into a lovely cedar vanda basket that my handy husband made and the roots are nice and green when watered, so I have hope that it is going to do well.

[Jaydiggity21]

I have since taken all 10 vandas out of their pots and fastened them to a "sort" of basket set up (in reality, I took the skewer they were attached to already and then put string on each side with a hook and hung them around the house). They can now have their roots hanging and I will mist them at least 2 times per day. Contrary to popular belief, SF is really not all that hot, and we average temps around 70 for the summer, but we have an Indian summer in Sept - Nov where its a little warmer. When I looked at the roots after 2 weeks poted, they were shriveling and turning black, so I don't think that they were going to do well in that set-up. A greenhouse is out of the question right because 1) Im a broke college student and 2)SF houses do not typically have backyards. So for now I am happy and will just watch them and see how they do. I was thinking that watering them with very dilute fertilizer each time (llike 10:1), to give them some extra juice as they grow up. I know not to fertilize too much because they are too young, but maybe a VERY dilute solution might help. Anyways, thanks so much for all the suggestions, and I have read many many threads and forums before this, so I know about the debate with baskets and pots. I'll post again with updates soon!

[arleneg]

Hi Jaydiggity21,

I just started my vanda collection and just wanted to share what I've learned recently.

The other night, our orchid society's guest speaker is an AOS judge and grows a lot of vandas in his Half Moon Bay greenhouse. He grows them in baskets with coarse, loose medium (to provide supplemental humidity) and pots (also with coarse, loose medium); waters his vandas when they're dry (keep in mind that Half Moon Bay's weather is much like San Francisco's -- cool and mostly foggy).

His potted vandas, especially ones that have roots growing out of the drainage holes, are not repotted, but transplanted into a bigger pot with a small amount of coarse, loose medium (e.g. medium size bark/perlite mix) around the base of the smaller pot. The reason for doing this is to minimize root disturbance. If roots are long, he wets them down to make them pliable before placing in the new bigger pot. With the transplanting method, however, you'll end up having several pots within a pot that will look funky. If you rather not go this route, placing them in baskets and placing a small amount of loose medium around the base of the vanda is fine, but not necessary. Fog = humidity. What your vandas will most likely need is bright to full sun and some warmth.

Another tip he gave us is that the closer you place your basket or pot to the walls outside will provide some heat.

HTH.

[turkeytaker]

I've had very good luck with vandas in pots, for long term. I put mine in clay pots with lavarock (saves the repotting hassles) and just put the entire pot in a larger pot when the roots cover the outside.

I grow indoors with extremely low humidity, so this works out very well for me. I water about once every two or three days, and my guy (guy, now, the others were getting way too big) seems to be doing okay. When I was growing outside during the summers (80-110F) with southeastern exposure (about 7 hrs of direct sun a day), it was a much better solution than having them hanging, where I'd have to hose three to four times a day. The big plants ended up going in 5-10 gallon buckets with lavarock and holes drilled on the bottom.

[Jaydiggity21]

Thanks so much for all your guys help! Since taking the vandas out of the pots and hanging them, they seem to be doing better, evidenced by greener roots, but SF hasn't seen the sun in like 5 days! I am doing my best to keep these babies alive! I have been misting them 3 times per day, so if anybody thinks that should be increased, let me know!

[Jaydiggity21]

I am going to post 2 more times because I want to put some pics on another thread, sorry!

[Jaydiggity21]

Arleneg, I was wondering if you know of any good orchid dealers with really reasonable prices in the SF Bay Area? Thanks!

[arleneg]

Hi Jaydiggity21,

I know of a few orchid nurseries in the bay area, but haven't visited them, yet. However, there's an orchid show and sale in San Jose this weekend. It's a place to start.

2007 Express Orchid Exhibition, San Jose, CA