another phal. in moss issue???

[mayres]

I purchased a new phal at the Oregon Orchid Society Show a month ago and noted it was in sphag. The cross was a special multifloral phal that won honors at the Tokyo Orchid show last year with what looked like a couple hundred flowers! It appeared to be in fairly loose sphag. Note that every plant I have purchased in sphag previously (big box sales) seemed to be packed very tightly and also had LOTS of rotten roots. Since this purchase was from what I considered to be a reputable local grower I decided to leave it as is (in its current sphag) and compare the progress with my other phals that are planted in a coir mixture. In the month that I have owned the plant I have watered it but twice. It seemed to be slowly going downhill so I decided I couldn't wait any longer and de-potted today. Aarrrrrrgh! Huge long roots over six inches long - ALL ROTTEN. After I removed all the bad roots I would estimate that 5-10% of the original root mass was left. If I ever purchase another phal in sphag I'm removing it as soon as I get home next time! I know some people swear by this stuff - but NOT me! mike

[brookn]

Mike,

I certainly don't swear by the stuff, I think if you live in an area of high humidity, probably just not going to work. Mine has done well in the sphag after I took a lot of it out of the pot, nice new green roots, but I could not wait for the blooms to finish knowing that the damaged ones in the middle still needed work.
I couldn't stand the wait anymore had to know it was okay. I repotted today, and because it is so humid here (the sphag remained wet for longer than 9 days) I went with sphag, bark, and charcoal. I am hoping that will make it happier. The middle roots were a wreck, but the outside roots looked good and it had six newish roots growing, the middle roots were also still too wrapped in sphag. With the constant rain here I have resorted to a box fan in the window across from the orchids on high, but have had to turn it off at night, because it was just too cool. Even then it took the sphag over 9 days to even begin to dry. I am sure a much drier climate would work for the phals in sphag, but I am beginning to think with humidity a bad idea.

I really am wondering how the growers make the sphag work so well for them, and when we get them home it is just the opposite, even when the grower is from the same area. Maybe a good question for Jerry.

Sorry to hear about your baby, hopefully it will recover just fine.

[sandra]

How strange for me to find this very topic going on now because I just logged on to search pros and cons regarding potting in sphag and bark and others' opinions on this. I just received from a friend 2 huge plants, a dend. and oncidium. The oncidium was packed tightly in sphag which I don't have any of my plants in, mainly because of living in Fla., where there's an over abundance of humidity. I spent over 2 hours running the plant under water, carefully removing all the sphag. last night. It's got a massive root system going on and lost only a tiny amount in this undertaking. I haven't repotted it yet...will do this morning and give it a heavy spraying with worm tea. Not knowing as much as a lot of the people here do in recognizing when the plants need watering, I find it much easier to judge these requirements when in bark as well as it's overall progress. I was very surprised to see how healthy the root system looked but am glad it's out of the sphag. nonetheless.

I'm with you Mike....no sphag. here as well.

[prisana]

Hi Mike,

I had a similar experience with one den nobile I bought from orchid show..it was't potted in sphag but it was in this loose pot, the 2 new growth were broken and it was in bloom and the roots were in bad shape. It was in blooms so I didn't mess with it, but of course the blooms didn't last long and when I took out the plant there were no good roots in the pot. That was in Jan. , and the plant is still in recovery now. You would think you spend that much money buying from what you thought was a reputable grower, and this is what you get... I just I won't be doing business with them again.

Sorry you had to experience that..it sure is frustrating. Better luck next time.

[pikevi]

I think fred has a different view of the sphag's use

Pardon my ignorance, what is a 'bigbox sale'?

[Sharyn]

Mike: I'm with you. I just don't have any luck with the stuff. We just discussed some moss issues on another thread.

Yet another Phal Question

[fred]

yes my views of spagh is different from other members on the forum.

I am pleased Sharyn brought the link over on the topic of spagh.

I have seen on the net alot of spagh is pre packed.

I have never used pre-packed spaghnum moss.

I dont think i would even think i would use the pre-packed stuff it looks dead to me.

the pre-packed spagh would take alot of time to get the spagh to where i would use that.

I only use fresh spagh.

My mini catts love the stuff.

I also know of big orchid growers that use tons of spagh.

I do not agree with packing the moss so tight in the pot as it has been said on here so many times.

when poting a plant up in spagh i dont just hold the plant and place the moss in the pot.
what i do is i place spagh around each one of the roots until i have a ball like shape then i place the worked spagh ball into the pot and 9 times out of 10 i do not have to add anymore spagh to the pot.

I find if the spagh is packed to tight the orchids roots suffer also the moss can not grow.

I guess i am just lucky i can get fresh spaghnum moss.

[prisana]

Fred,
You know, I've always been wondering about where to get fresh green sphag. I don't even know if they have a bog here big enough for people to harvest commercially . I read in an orchid book a while ago and they mentioned using green sphag in everything, from growing backbulbs to use as potting medium. All I've been able to find is the dried stuff. All I've seen growing around here is just reg moss..I doubt they work the same, I've even heard it blocks the roots from getting nutrients and other good stuff.

I want some green sphag !!

[fred]

regular moss wont work at all in pots although i have seen some mounted,s done with whats called bush moss that is a very dark brown color.

I use more spagh than orchid mix.

I have enclosed a few pics just to show how good spagh works for me.

I just lifted the plants out of the pot to take pics.

A Phal in the pot



now the same one out of the pot



i have also done the same with the 2 mini catts i have in flower right now.





as i posted this post i looked at the pics and you can also see that the spagh is not packed in tight.

[Aniko]

This discussion on Sphagnum moss is going me crazy.
First, I'm sorry for what happened to Mike (who obviously knows what he is doing).
Once more I see that checking the root system of a new Phal it's a necessity, without concern of it's origin.

Second, it's a mystery how such a contradictory outcome is produced by the same stuff.I'm sure though, that it's not a question of good or bad luck - has to be a more rational explanation.

I get to appreciate this medium which seems to me the easiest to handle, to control and give me good results not only for Phalaenopsis but Oncidium and Miltassia.
Of course I'm not going to try to convince anybody to switch to it.

The real concern for me is what to say to a newbie who desperately ask for advise. Such an contradictory context it's confusing rather than helpful...

[tom499]

The type of moss plays a big part in it. as fre pointed out, good quality live moss is a much safer bet and will work very well in the right conditons. i think heat and pot size plays a big role in getting spag to work well. Fred has his catts quite snug, so there isnt too much moss to get waterlogged if over watering were to occur. Moss does take a while to dry out, so warm temps and a moderate humidity help here. I myself have rather cold conditions so only use moss on masd. which like abit of a chill for their roots.

phals are quite epithytic and so i think they work best in medium bark, maybe with some moss if you dont water so often.

i wouldnt recommend pure moss for a large plant as i think its too easy for it too get water logged, but by freds pics, a snug pot seems to be the trick

[brookn]

Okay I think that saying humidity is relative, I should probably should explain the humidity here is 80%. If I wash my hair, and let it air dry, it takes around three hours in this humidity. In the spring and summer here 80% humidity is the norm. and it gets higher. Sometimes the air is so moisture laden it feels as if you are breathing water.

Compare it this way, in Keizer where mike lives it is 57 F with 89% humidity, here in missouri it is 77F with 80% humidity (and we have not gotten our daily thunderstorm yet), in connecticut it is 68F with 52% humidity, and in tasmania it is 45F with 79% humidity. Okay so I am using deducitve reasoning and saying that the sphag is going to dry much faster in your humidity. The reason Fred is having success is because his sphag is straight from a bog (? swamp?), it is fresh and green. Fresh green sphag actually inhibits fungus because of the ph. I don't know about mike, but our humidity is most always that high here, and for the exception of winter, the place has the look and feel of a jungle. We can't stop the plants from taking over around here. I think that is the variable that makes the sphag harder on our plants, I could be wrong.
I will say, that my catt. seedlings are in a pot with bark in the bottom, and only sphag at the top snugged around the roots, and they are loving it. No problems, new growth, green and happy. My phal was just not having it, but it was also from a box store and had been packed too snugly, and was probably abused badly before I got it. I did point out that there are new roots-6 of them and they grew in the sphag, I just did not want to risk any more problems.
Mike I would be p#$%^d also if I had such bad luck.

Fred i have a phal. bellina coming, and I know that they like sphag, so I am going to use your technique. I thank you for the instruction and pics-very helpful. I had actually been worrying over what I was going to do with it, and your post helped me decide the medium and tecnique.

Prisana florida has sphag bogs (?) I am not sure if they still harvest them, but I read some interesting things about the things that they discovered in them archaeologically (sp?). You might check it out.

[fred]

brookn

I am pleased that you found my technique helpful.

I also enjoyed reading your post.

very well said

[melissa]

Hi all,

I am a real newbie to orchids. My late brother was an EXPERT so I acquired little bit of knowledge from him by shear osmosis. Enough of this knowledge enabled me to recognize a Phal. in LOWES (yes - the building supply chain) that was getting ready to take a turn for the worse. Doing my best imitation of Charlie Brown, I brought it home and repotted it out of sphagnum and into orchid medium. It quickly grew two new roots up out of the medium and a new leaf! Great right?! Maybe not - the existing leaves are really rubbery. So, now what? I know it needs something but I don't know what. I observed the same as most people repotting an orchid from sphagnum moss - rotten, white roots with, (at best), 15-20 percent healthy roots left. Somebody help me help my poor little orchid who is fighting the good fight.

Melissa

[brookn]

Thanks Fred. You should have seen me going back and forth checking the weather conditions, the kiddies said I looked pretty serious. Flying fingers and all hee hee.

[brookn]

melissa, how long has it been since you repotted, and what kind of orchid medium. It will help us help you if you could tell us what is in the medium. Thanks.

[fred]

hi Melissa

welcome to the forum

I hope that you enjoy your stay here with all of us orchidgeeks.

Not all orchids do well in spagh as this has been stated in this thread.

just what might help your Phal is a half and half mix of spagh + potting medium.



brookn

I can just see your poor kiddies face when you were dong that lol