Repot Oriental Smiles

[Sharyn]

My nobile den is jumping out of the pot. It's about 24 inches tall, a new cane growing (7") and a few kikis or buds. The roots are wrapped around the top of the pot (4" pot) and the whole plant looks like it's going to jump right out.

I'd wait until after flowering, but that's still quite a few months away (I think.) So, when would be the best time to repot? I just can't figure out the timing.

Could also use a few suggestions for potting media. I'm not sure what this potting medium is made up of but it drains very quickly. It looks like fiberous chunks of something.

[prisana]

Hi Sharyn,
I wouldn't repot it now, or you'll risk losing the blooms and if the new growth isn't mature yet, it could get stunned . It happened to one of mine where the new growth wasn't producing roots yet and it was knocked over out of the pot and bunch of roots were damaged. I'm not 100% sure if that was the cause, but I blamed it on that . The new growth stopped growing right at that point and a couple of months later I got a new growth out of the stunned one, because it wasn't mature enough to produce spike, I had to wait an extra year for the flowers from the newer growth .

[kmarch]

Hi Sharyn,

As a general rule, I repot after blooming has finished.

It's potted in "fiberous chunks of something"? It sounds like maybe its coir chips. Coir is the outer, soft husk of a coconut, the part we almost never see because it's always removed before it gets to the store. I don't know if this is still the case in the US (someone else can fill us in) but It used to be that you really had to soak and rinse and soak and rinse and soak and rinse this stuff before using it because some of it had a high saly content. Here in Australia it comes in compressed blocks and has been "washed". I've never used it for a nobile-type but see no reason why it wouldn't work. I have mine potted in plain ole bark chips.

If the roots have gone around the pot on the outside, when you do repot after flowering has finished, you will want to soak the pot for a little while to make the roots more pliable. Less root damage this way. Keep the pot as small as possible.

Hope this helps.

Post a pic of it when it blooms if you are able. Lots of photo hounds here

Cheers

[Sharyn]

prisana & kmarch. Thanks for your replies. I thought I'd show you a pic of what I'm talking about. Sorry about the out of focus one. And those chunks ..........? I don't know what coir chunks look like. Maybe it's just bark, but much of it is a cubed shape.

[kmarch]

Hi again,

You've got coir chunks. They've been gradually becoming more and more popular for that last 8-10 years or so. One of the reasons they're becoming popular is that they do not seem to rot like fir bark does which translates into less repotting.

Your roots look voluminous (sp?) and healthy. I think, if it were me, I'd leave it for another year or so. Get a second opinion though because I only have grown a few of these. Can someone who has grown a lot of nobile-types please weigh in here?

[Sharyn]

Thanks Kevin. I'll wait for any repotting - just didn't know if this was one of those situations to repot NOW. Glad you identified the media for me. I've never seen coir chunks before. Once I used the powered coir in a phal with disasterous results, but this stuff is really nice and has excellent drainage. If I can find a source, I'll get some for my next repotting dens project.

By the way, I quit using regular fertilizers on my dens and have been watering with worm tea. They really like it. Thanks again for your help.

[kmarch]

The powered coir is sometimes called coir peat. I throw a couple of handsfull of coir peat into my Paph mix, just a little though.

[jerrymeola]

Oriental Smiles is an exclusive Yamamoto hybrid. It has been the most popular one this season for my customers.

The medium is coconut which is used exclusively by Yamamoto, but I think this is more economical in Hawaii rather than necessary. Coco is naturally sterile lacking benefical microbes and holds more water than bark.

I re-pot into normal bark perlite mix. I do not think it makes a difference.

The 4 inch pots always seem to develop like yours over the blooming season. (all varieties) When you re-pot you will be surprised to find the plant is probably not pot bound. The roots around the top seem to be a characteristic of the plant and not an indication of being pot bound. If the roots around the top are not dried out and dead I put them into the pot. If I do not trust the roots I cut them off. Nothing I do seems to harm the plant.

Nobile dens are the hardiest plant I grow. Nothing seems to hurt them. I have re-potted 2 inch pots to 4 inch while in bud and also while in bloom and never lost a flower. I have re-potted many 4 inch in flower (when they get knocked out in transporting them) out of necessity and never had a problem. Still it is always better advice to wait until the flowers are done.

I have a couple that bloomed twice this season probably because they were pre-chilled by Yamamoto for me in August and then again by nature in February.

[jerrymeola]

kMarch

I was interested in your comment about coir not rotting as fast as bark, because my impression (from growers pots shipped to me not first hand experience) was that it decayed faster.

One of my Hawaiian shippers has a long article on why he uses coir and the extreme top dressing (seaweed, fertilizers etc) he gives it to balance its sterile condition. He never considered bark which apparently has to be shipped into Hawaii unlike Coconut which is plentiful. I will try to get permission to reprint the article in our medium section.

[Sharyn]

Jerry: Thanks for your reply. After reading your post, I gently pulled it a little out of the pot. You're right - it's not pot bound at all. The roots surrounding the top are all healthy and are not dry. So, I'll wait for repotting. May need to ask your advice for a media recipe at that time.

My only other nobile den is a Himezakura, which is still quite small. The root pattern on this Oriental Smiles is quite different from what I've ever seen before. Now I know it's normal and I look forward to flowers.

The Yamamoto dendrobium site you referred to in another thread has a very nice and informative section on this type of den. I even read the growers tips. I found the temperature variations for different bloom periods to be of interest. To add a chuckle, I'm not sure where I saw it, but one of the orchid care sites recommended putting the nobile in the refrigerator if you were unable to get the night temperatures low enough in the fall! My family would probably eat it! Thanks again.

[E-Jag]

God, that Den Oriental Smile Fantasy is gorgeous. I don't mean to hijack this thread - will start another if a moderator prefers - but I have a couple of den phals. Are the blooming patterns similar? Does a den phal bloom all along the "stalk" or spike or basically just at the top? TIA.

E-Jag

[Sharyn]

E-jag: This particular dendrobium is a nobile den. The flowers will come from the canes with no leaves. They need a cooling off period in the fall and no fertilizers after August and very little water over the winter.

This is NOT the same as the dendrobium phal types. The flowers on those will come from a spike on Top. I think Jerry Meola & Kevin have some detailed information on both types. I'll see if I can find the threads and/or posts.

[E-Jag]

Sharyn - thanks for your quick reply. I'm basically familiar with the differences between the phal and nobile dens but, obviously, not the differences in blooming patterns. However, you answered my question and I appreciate it. I evidently can expect my phal type den to bloom off the top of the stalks as opposed to up and down the length of the stalk. Darn. The nobile blooms are impressive indeed. Thanks again. Love this site.

E-Jag

[E-Jag]

Sharyn - Thanks much for the pm. Unfortunately, I am a computer imbecile and can't seem to figure out how to get back to you. I tend to view modern technology much the same as I do unnecessary prostate surgery. I will take your advice and your efforts are certainly appreciated. Hope you see this. Will figure out the pm thing -reply doesn't seem to work so will keep at it.

E-Jag

[kmarch]

Jerry,

Regarding my comments about coir not breaking down: I was parroting what my orchid growing/coir fan friends have told me. They (meaning 4-5 others in my orchid club including one professional and one near-professional) use it for almost everything and say they have less root rot and less breakdown. I'm a bit of a traditionalist and to date have only used it as an additive to increase moisture retention.

[jerrymeola]

kMarch

For much the same reasons I have avoided coir since one or the two shippers who uses it a lot ships me Cattleya in 4 inch pots where the coir is totally broken down.

Because of the need to re-pot, I find I occasionally refuse to sell the plants to customers that I think do not have the ability to re-pot. When I warn of the need to re-pot after blooming they just look at another orchid to chose anyway.

With Yamamoto Dens I believe he re-pots every plant every season. I have never received a plant from him that did not look like fresh mix. But this is not fair since they need re-potting every year just because of the fast growth.

So neither experience is very conclusive. Most of all I like to use a smaller mix where there is more medium in contact with the roots.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

So neither experience is very conclusive.

Agreed. I'm going to see a bunch of my orchid buddies this weekend let me see if I can get some more info out of them. I'm pretty certain that onefo my froends uses only coir for all of his Zygos and he has a lot of them too...somethign like 200. Let me find out how often he repots.

[Sharyn]

My Oriental Smiles is doing quite well this summer with lots of new growth and roots. On one of the bare canes, I have a keiki growing which now has four leaves and roots about 1 1/2 inches long. I would like to leave it alone until after the plant flowers. I'm presuming that this will be ok. Will the keiki suck necessary energy from the plant? Is it also possible to just leave the keiki on the plant and forget about removing it altogether? Your comments welcome.