Identification needed

[Kamanax]

i Have inherited 4 orchids from my grandmother, 2 of which are vandas, the other two i am not certain of, im hoping someone here can I.D. them for me.

[Dendian]

Hello and to geeks.

The first one is a Dendrobium species. It looks like Den jenkinsii or Den lindleyi (syn. Den. aggregatum)

The second one also looks to me like a Dendrobium, Den. loddigesii or Den. aphyllum. Once you see the colors of the blooms you will be able to tell them apart (loddigesii is purple, aphyllum is whiteish).

Very nice.

[Reg22]

I agree with Dendian about the first one. Looks like Dendrobium aggregatum. I have a dendrobium jenkinsii and the leaves are a little smaller and rounder.
The 2nd and 3rd I have no idea about! :

[katrina]

That first one is definitely a Dendrobium and while it looks like the species mentioned...we can't be certain based on a picture alone.

The second also looks (A LOT ) like some Dens I have but until it flowers I am hesitant to say w/certainty that it's a den. I've learned over the years some are good at fooling me.

[kmarch]

Dendian's right on the first one, it's either Den jenkinsii or Den lindleyi Den jenkinsii leaves are smaller generally but the most prominent difference between the two species is the origin of the inflorescence. If the inflorescence comes form the base of the pseudobulb, it is jenkinsii. If it comes from a point along the side of the pseudobulb, it is lindleyi.

I think the other one is a den also but there are few that have these long thin bamboo-ish canes. Have you got a pic of the flowers? Maybe we can narrow it down that way.

[terra_australis]

I'm thinking the other one is more likely an Epidendrum. Sure, there are Dendrobiums that have a similar structure but from what I've seen they all have thin papery leaves. This example appears to have thick fleshy leaves like a reed-stemmed Epi. If I'm not mistaken you can even see the old flower stem section at the end of a number of the canes.

[orchids4me]

I'm thinking the second one is an epidendrum also. In the 1 shot of the basket there is what may be a bloom? Its orangey red thereon the right/middle sid of the 1st pic of the 2nd plant its facing the wall away from the camera. I may be mistaken but looks like a bloom there from this angle. Can you confirm what I'm seeing ??

[Brooke]

It is definitely not Den loddigessii or aphyllum. They don't present their leaves like the second picture.

Brooke

[katrina]

Originally Posted by kmarch

Dendian's right on the first one, it's either Den jenkinsii or Den lindleyi Den jenkinsii leaves are smaller generally but the most prominent difference between the two species is the origin of the inflorescence. If the inflorescence comes form the base of the pseudobulb, it is jenkinsii. If it comes from a point along the side of the pseudobulb, it is lindleyi.

Kevin, I don't have either of those 2 dens so please forgive me if the question is stupid but...is there something special about those 2 that would enable them to be ID'd by a pic only? Something distinctive that only the species carries and I'm not aware of it? Again, I apologize if my question seems really ignorant but I have no experience w/either of those dens.

[Reg22]

That's a good question, Katrina. Initially I jumped right in and suggested it is a dendrobium aggregatum because it "looks" that way, but then I regretted it because I learned on this forum that you can't definitively identify by picture only. Kevin, I would like to know the answer to Katrina's question too.

[terra_australis]

Sounds like you 2 are trying to beat Kevin at his own game...

The reason those 2 species can be identified easily from a picture is the structure of the flower combined with the shape of the cane/plant. The combination makes them quite distict from other Dendrobiums. That of course assumes the plant is a pure species and not a hybrid.

[Reg22]

Just trying to learn from those much wiser than I!
Thanks for the explanation, Dan.

[plantloverlisa]

I thought the plant in pictures 2 and 3 resemble my Den. hercoglossum. Just a thought.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by terra_australis

Sounds like you 2 are trying to beat Kevin at his own game...

No terra_australis...it was a legitimate question. I don't grow either of those 2 dens so I don't know the first thing about them. And, I never will know if I don't ask questions. Agreed?

Originally Posted by terra_australis

The reason those 2 species can be identified easily from a picture is the structure of the flower combined with the shape of the cane/plant. The combination makes them quite distict from other Dendrobiums. That of course assumes the plant is a pure species and not a hybrid.

Thank you. Now I know the answer to my question.

[terra_australis]

Originally Posted by katrina

No terra_australis...it was a legitimate question. I don't grow either of those 2 dens so I don't know the first thing about them. And, I never will know if I don't ask questions. Agreed?

Yes, I totally agree. I was just kidding...

Originally Posted by plantloverlisa

I thought the plant in pictures 2 and 3 resemble my Den. hercoglossum. Just a thought.

Possibility, but I still think the leaves look too fleshy to be a Dendrobium of that sort unless the pictures are deceiving my eyes.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by katrina

is there something special about those 2 that would enable them to be ID'd by a pic only?

Originally Posted by Reg22

I would like to know the answer to Katrina's question too.

Actually yes, there is. But to go back a step, I must admit I've become a little bit lazy in fully explaining myself when I issue the standard "can't ID" answer. Truth of the matter is that a some orchid species bear characteristics that are distinct enough to enable an ID given limited information. For example Paph randsii is very distinct, and actually quite rare in cultivation (thus very few hybrids using this as a parent - ergo essentially no hybrids that look a lot like the species).

I still hold to my position that in the majority of cases (and I do mean BIG majority) in order for a positive ID to be made, a careful comparison of all flower and plant parts must be made against a botanical description and that this comparison is best done by a taxonomist who specializes in orchids as they will be aware of the fine points of descriptions and taxonomy which others will miss. But, getting back to your question as to how we can be so certain of this ID, as Andrew has stated:

Originally Posted by terra_australis

The reason those 2 species can be identified easily from a picture is the structure of the flower combined with the shape of the cane/plant. The combination makes them quite distict from other Dendrobiums. That of course assumes the plant is a pure species and not a hybrid.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

With hybrids, it's a whole different story. I maintain, except in a very few cases concerning very distinct cultivars of certain crosses, it is impossible to get a positive ID though. Sometimes you can narrow it down, e.g. such-n-such a paph noid looks like a Paph rothschildianum cross of some kind but its difficult to do much more than that and getting an ID is simply not as simple as googling some orchids and comparing a flower to web pics.

And just for the record, I never took any of the posts as anyone having a go at me.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by terra_australis

Possibility, but I still think the leaves look too fleshy to be a Dendrobium of that sort unless the pictures are deceiving my eyes.

I agree w/this...my herco's leaves are much thinner than the pic appears to be.

[rcb]

Highly doubtful that first one is D. jenkinsii. As Kmarch mentioned, it spikes from the base, but also has very short spikes, and few flowered compared to the other one. Always could be a hybrid though.

[pikkumyy]

Originally Posted by Dendian

Hello and to geeks.

The first one is a Dendrobium species. It looks like Den jenkinsii or Den lindleyi (syn. Den. aggregatum)

The second one also looks to me like a Dendrobium, Den. loddigesii or Den. aphyllum. Very nice.

Originally Posted by Reg22

I agree with Dendian about the first one. Looks like Dendrobium aggregatum. I have a dendrobium jenkinsii and the leaves are a little smaller and rounder.
The 2nd and 3rd I have no idea about! :

Originally Posted by katrina

That first one is definitely a Dendrobium and while it looks like the species mentioned...we can't be certain based on a picture alone.

in a toss-up between jenkinsii and aggregatum, im going to go with aggregatum, because my jenkinsii has just been in amazing bloom, but with only 1-2 flowers per 'spike', and its a larger plant than yours so i would have thought mine would have lots of flowers per inflorescence if they are the same,

also about the second one, i doubt it would be aphyllum because aphyllum has a more typical cane.

anyway good luck and they are some lovely plants

[Kamanax]

Thanks for all the help, im a big fan of this forum, i check it every morning and evening, almost as much as i check my orchids. theres been a lot of activity lately, with new growth, roots and flower spikes on various plants. heck i even have one that looks like it wants to go to heaven (Phal with what looks like root rot). it is all very exciting and relaxing at the same time.

[kmarch]

Kamanax, you haven't mentioned yet if the spikes on the yellow den come from the base or the side of the pseudobulb. If we knew which it was, it would be easy to tell whether it is Den jenkinsii or Den lindleyi.

Notice I did not mention Dendrobium aggregatum. Dendrobium aggregatum is an obsolete synonym for Dendrobium lindleyi.
World Checklist of Selected Plant Families: Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew

[Kamanax]

Id say it grows out of the belly of the p. bulb. heres a pic. Also how would i go about dividing it, would an old p. bulb with no leaf be able to send of a side shoot?

[plantloverlisa]

Oh I wouldn't divide it, it is just getting to be a good size.

[pikkumyy]

Originally Posted by plantloverlisa

Oh I wouldn't divide it, it is just getting to be a good size.

seconded

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Kamanax

Id say it grows out of the belly of the p. bulb. heres a pic.

Originally Posted by kmarch

If it comes from a point along the side of the pseudobulb, it is lindleyi.

Looks like it is most likely Den lindleyi.

Originally Posted by Kamanax

Also how would i go about dividing it, would an old p. bulb with no leaf be able to send of a side shoot?

I'm with the others. I would not divide it. These dens, as you can see, have a pretty compact growth habit and they can be grown easily into nice big clumps that will produce many inflorescences at once making a really amazing display.