My first Phal cornu-cervi bloom

[jpyerry]

I got home from work tonight and after doing my compulsory check on my plants, I found my Phal. cornu-cervi is in bloom! This is my first earned Phal. species bloom, so I feel really proud. I have attached pictures, one is with the flash, the other is without. I would say the bloom is a little less than an inch in diameter.

[Danelady]

Congrats on your bloom!
Very pretty flower!!

[cable]

That looks like a nice one! It has wider tepals than some I've seen. Phal. cornu-cervi is a sequential bloomer, so if you keep it happy it can stay in bloom most or all of the time, making new flowers continuously at the end of long-lived flower stems.

Congrats!

[Dendian]

Very nice! Good Job!!!!

[BGGraham1]

Really nice bloom. Great job!

[plantloverlisa]

That is a beautiful bloom, the shape is different than any I have seen. Congratulations.

[TheBlazingAugust]

Originally Posted by plantloverlisa

That is a beautiful bloom, the shape is different than any I have seen. Congratulations.

The flower is not fully open. It will become way more open and star-shaped after three to four days.

[orchids4me]

Its gorgeous !!!!
Congrats on the first bloom!!
Good growing !!

[Brooke]

Can you send a pic of this bloom to your vendor and ask for verification? The bloom is gorgeous but I don't believe it is a cornu-cervi but might have it in the background.

Cody the cornu-cervi do not change shape as they age.

Brooke

[jpyerry]

Brooke,

I can't send a picture to the vendor. This is one of the 3 plants that I bought from a dealer on ebay that came from Thailand. Each vendor was a separate individual, and each plant (cornu-cervi, lowii, and philippinensis) seemed to have a problem this is the plant that introduced Phalaenopsis mites to my collection. But, anyway, each of these 3 vendors have disappeared from ebay altogether, so I have no way of getting in touch with any of them. I would be kind of upset if they sold a plant that they claimed was not what they said it was, but not much I can do now, at least I still think the flower is pretty. I have become very weary of international dealers now, and I have been trying to only buy from established companies (I feel pretty safe buying on ebay if I know the dealer actually runs a brick and mortar business in non-online life).

[Brooke]

I'm sorry you have to go through this but sorry to say it won't be the last time. I can't tell you how many misID'd plants I've purchased.

Enjoy the bloom, pretty blooms don't need a name.

Brooke

[Brooke]

Here is a pic of my cornu-cervi fma chattaladae.


Phal connu-cervi f. chattaladae JCL_0258 by kentucky4, on Flickr

Norman's has a couple of differnt red cornu's available now. Console yourself and go shopping.

Brooke

[TheBlazingAugust]

Originally Posted by Brooke

Cody the cornu-cervi do not change shape as they age.

jpyerry said that he came home to it open, so I am assuming it wasn't open when he left fir work. My flava cornu-cervi took about three days to fully open. That is what I was referring to, the flower not being fully open.

[Dendian]

I think it is a beautiful flower, what ever it is, and good job on getting it to bloom ypjerry.

I decided early on that I was not going to buy anything on eBay from out of country vendors because of just this possibility. By the time you get it and bloom it - who knows what it actually is

It is definitely buyer beware on eBay - and I saw several very gorgeous and improbable flasks of orchids with supposed flower photographs which appeared photoshopped to change the colors and even more improbable and un-registered names. I then clicked on the US only button choice - and I don't even look at them any more. There are quite a few in Australia I would love to have - but while I would trust those - they would not be cost effective to buy even if I could find somebody who ships to the US.

I have also had the bad luck to run into one US vendor who may have suffered a mental breakdown around the time of my sale, she never sent me the plants I paid for and I needed to go through eBay and get my money back (along with two other people). She contacted me a year later and lambasted me for stealing from her, and even put derogatory comments in her new auctions about me getting my money back after she sent me the plants because I had left negative feedback (which eBay did nothing to protect me or themselves) - and she is still selling on eBay but I no longer trust she is selling what she says she has for sale. "My" plants ended up somewhere.. she says she doesn't have them and refused to send me proof she shipped them. This has made me even more leery of dealing with eBay vendors, even ones with "good" scores.

Having said that - have I stopped buying from eBay? - NO WAY!

But I am much more careful now of who I pick - and I go much further back in their feedback to read what people wrote - looking for any negative or neutral comments from previous years because I found out that after a year the negative comments disappear from the feedback percentage score - so you cannot not go by the "good" scores either.

No, I will not PM you who she is, but if you follow the above instructions you will find her (and probably me if you care) and you can learn to be a much smarter eBay shopper by doing so.

As P.T. Barnum once said "a sucker is born every minute - and two to take him".

Buying on eBay is a gamble - realize that before you bid - and check out everything.

[jpyerry]

Well, the flower has flattened out a bit more, in another day or so I will post another picture, so you all can see its final formation.

Out of curiosity, does anybody have any idea which species this plant is, or do we all think it is a hybrid that will be unidentifiable? I would like to know so I can change the label and I'm hoping that I don't have to stick another NOID tag on the plant.

I appreciate everybody's comments.

[TheBlazingAugust]

Originally Posted by jpyerry

Well, the flower has flattened out a bit more, in another day or so I will post another picture, so you all can see its final formation.

Out of curiosity, does anybody have any idea which species this plant is, or do we all think it is a hybrid that will be unidentifiable? I would like to know so I can change the label and I'm hoping that I don't have to stick another NOID tag on the plant.

I appreciate everybody's comments.

As the flower is still opening, it would be quite hard to tell what it actually looks like, so it would be impossible to either prove or disprove the identity. I think the best thing would be to wait a couple more days, and then take a couple of pics, and post them here.

[psyc1210]

It is gorgeous. I do agree that it doesn't look like it is fully cornu-cervi. Fully open or not, the sepals look very rounded and wide compared to any other cornu-cervi I have seen...

[jpyerry]

As promised, I have collected a few more pictures on my Phal. bloom now that the flower appears to have flattened out a bit more. I have also included pictures of the side of the flower, the rear of the flower, and long shots of the plant itself with the flower spike. I know that plant looks quite poorly, this is due to the Phalaenopsis mite damage that I am currently treating.

I hope somebody might be able to positively identify this plant, although I am aware of how difficult it is identify an un/mislabelled plant.

Thanks,
Justin Yerry

[TheBlazingAugust]

Oh dear, this is going to be a hard one. From the pictures, the tepals (petals and sepals) are more rounded than your average cornu-cervi, especially the lateral sepals. The strange thing is is that the lip resembles a normal cornu-cervi, except it is a tad bit 'fatter.' The leaves also look a little too round for a cornu-cervi. Another thing that bugs me is that normally, the inflorescences are normally flattened, and this one, too looks a little 'chubby.' The only thing I can even think of is a primary with violacea var. Sumatra, this is registered as Phal. Valentinii. That would explain the wider tepals, the 'fatter' lip, and the 'chubby' inflorescence. But, as I am no expert, I cannot be 100% sure, so don't take my word on this.

[jpyerry]

As one more note that might help, I have not detected any fragrance as of yet.

In addition, I have been poring over photographs of red variants of Phal. cornu-cervi online, trying to find a match, I found one variant called Phal. cornu-cervi fma. chattaladae that looked quite similar to my flower. Is it possible that this is what I might have? Or, do we all have the opinion that this plant is most likely a hybrid of some sort?

I should note that the only information included on the label that came with the plant was "Phal. cornu cervi - red".

[1joyceh]

It is a beautiful bloom, no matter the name..
Great job growing jpyerry

[Mira-Claude]

Do they all smell like ham?
Love the flowers by the way!

[psyc1210]

Originally Posted by jpyerry

As one more note that might help, I have not detected any fragrance as of yet.

In addition, I have been poring over photographs of red variants of Phal. cornu-cervi online, trying to find a match, I found one variant called Phal. cornu-cervi fma. chattaladae that looked quite similar to my flower. Is it possible that this is what I might have? Or, do we all have the opinion that this plant is most likely a hybrid of some sort?

I should note that the only information included on the label that came with the plant was "Phal. cornu cervi - red".

Brooke posted a photo in this thread of her fma chattaladae. The shape of the flower is not the usual shape of cornu-cervi....so I am assuming that it is indeed a hybrid with cornu-cervi as a parent...of what, I don't know.

[psyc1210]

Originally Posted by TheBlazingAugust

. But, as I am no expert, I cannot be 100% sure, so don't take my word on this.

You aren't??


I agree that the inflorescence isn't flat like typical c-c, as well as the flower shape is definitely not typical of the species.

[lmartiny]

I have one of these but the color is not so red. It is blooming now. One bloom on each spike. Two spikes. I'm watching a nub on a spike (sub spike?) And a nub at the base of the plant. New spike? I took a pict recently. I'll look for it.

[royalkat]

Ok please don't slam me, I am no expert, and its only an opinion. But to me, it looks very much like a phalaenopsis borneensis.

One other option: cornu-cervi "Rheagan" perhaps.

Just ideas, but best is to go back to the source and find out what they know.

[lmartiny]

Yeah. Who knows if a tag is really right. I wonder. But I'll enjoy the plant either way.

[psyc1210]

Originally Posted by royalkat

Ok please don't slam me, I am no expert, and its only an opinion. But to me, it looks very much like a phalaenopsis borneensis.

One other option: cornu-cervi "Rheagan" perhaps.

Just ideas, but best is to go back to the source and find out what they know.

I do not recall reading any information in Eric Christenson's book regarding a red form of borneensis, but I may be wrong. I'll have to go pull my book and look it up again

[plantloverlisa]

Per KEW: Phal. cornu-cervi is accepted species for Phal. borneensis. I agree with JoBeth the shape is just not right, Brooke's picture is the way it should look.

[TheBlazingAugust]

Originally Posted by psyc1210

You aren't??

Well, I am only 16, and compared to Peter Lin, Eric Christenson, or Michael Ooi, I am a complete amateur! But I have had a whole summer of doing nothing to do tons of reading; books, Orchids Magazine, online. Phals are one of my more 'researched' areas.

Originally Posted by plantloverlisa

Per KEW: Phal. cornu-cervi is accepted species for Phal. borneensis. I agree with JoBeth the shape is just not right, Brooke's picture is the way it should look.

Ummm, what?!?!? Are you meaning that cornu-cervi is a synonym for borneensis, or vice versa? Gosh, these taxonomical changes are getting out of hand! From what I have seen for borneensis, it is closer in resemblance to mannii and pantherina, having a more pointed flower shape than cornu-cervi.

So, from what I have seen, I think we can at least say that it should have cornu-cervi 'Red' as a parent. Oh, I just thought of something, could you measure the flower, and maybe also the leaves?

[Brooke]

Cody at 16 you have a great future in orchids BUT regardless of how many pictures or measurements you take, this plant is not cornu-cervi. And it is impossible to guess the lineage of the plant.

Phal. cornu-cervi has many synonyms besides borneensis - other names are pantherina, devriesiana, lamelligera and thalebanii. All of these former stand alone species are currently considered cornu-cervi.

Brooke

[psyc1210]

Originally Posted by TheBlazingAugust

Well, I am only 16, and compared to Peter Lin, Eric Christenson, or Michael Ooi, I am a complete amateur! But I have had a whole summer of doing nothing to do tons of reading; books, Orchids Magazine, online. Phals are one of my more 'researched' areas.



Ummm, what?!?!? Are you meaning that cornu-cervi is a synonym for borneensis, or vice versa? Gosh, these taxonomical changes are getting out of hand! From what I have seen for borneensis, it is closer in resemblance to mannii and pantherina, having a more pointed flower shape than cornu-cervi.

So, from what I have seen, I think we can at least say that it should have cornu-cervi 'Red' as a parent. Oh, I just thought of something, could you measure the flower, and maybe also the leaves?

I've only had a few years of reading up on as much as I can get my hands on regarding Phal species.......and only recently did I start giving advice regarding Phal species.

borneensis is currently recognized as cornu-cervi, however I like to go by what Eric Christenson believed, and he has it as a separate species. I have a plant labeled as cornu-cervi, and a plant labeled as borneensis, and a plant labeled as pantherina. I am also possibly going to get lamelligera. I will keep them tagged as they come until I bloom them and identify them using Christenson's key.

[Brooke]

My only guide is Kew.

Christenson had been contacted by the IPA to do an update to his Monograph but as everyone knows, he recently passed away.

Brooke

[TheBlazingAugust]

Originally Posted by Brooke

Regardless of how many pictures or measurements you take, this plant is not cornu-cervi. And it is impossible to guess the lineage of the plant.

Originally Posted by psyc1210

And only recently did I start giving advice regarding Phal species.

I wholeheartedly agree with you two, it is impossible to identify it. The only reason I did mention that it most likely has cornu-cervi as a parent is because that would at least help culture-wise, as I have heard that cornu-cervi like it a tad drier than say, violacea. And, I wasn't trying to come across as a know it all, if that is how I was sounding.

[jpyerry]

Alright, well I guess I will just drop the subject of identification. I am just quite disappointed that I now have another NOID plant. I find it amazing that there are people that are so deceptive in this industry that they would misrepresent their product just to make a few bucks off of us, when they could make much more money selling quality and accurately represented plants. How do these people sleep at night?

It is a consolation that I do have a pretty flower, no matter its name and that is certainly worth a lot to me.

Once again, I really do appreciate all the help everybody has given me, even if it was bad news this time.

I am going to get some more cornu-cervi's in the future, this time I will make certain to buy from a reputable dealer. And, I am also going to avoid international dealers like the plague. So, lesson learned.

[Stitz]

Originally Posted by jpyerry

I am going to get some more cornu-cervi's in the future, this time I will make certain to buy from a reputable dealer. And, I am also going to avoid international dealers like the plague. So, lesson learned.

jpyerry, There are many reputable international dealers to be found. Many travel to the United States with their plants to Shows. I have purchased plants from many South American vendors, especially Brasilian. I have also purchased from some Asian and two European vendors. One of the European vendors was from The Netherlands and I got screwed. Lesson learned.

GOOD LUCK finding your Phal cornu-cervi ! I have one

--Stitz--

[jpyerry]

Stitz, I am quite sure that what you say about international vendors is true. I suppose I am just venting, sorry. Its just that this is my only sounding board for matters concerning orchids, I don't know anybody in my non-online life that is as passionate as I am about orchids, or plants for that matter.

I know that this will not be the last time I get a mislabelled plant, it sounds like it happens frequently. And, for some plants, it seems that one must deal with international vendors if you actually want to acquire something not commonly cultivated here in the USA.

As a side question, now that my curiosity is piqued, if one were to find a plant growing in the wild, how do the botanists/taxonomists actually determine what plant it is specifically?

[lmartiny]

This is what my cornu-cervi looks like.