Phalaenopsis x Brassia? Cross genus breeding...

[holatombola]

I was wondering if anyone has ever tried a cros between a Phalaenopsis and a Brassia? I know they're not in the same alliance, but just an innocent question...

And secondly,could anyone tell me to what extent one can breed different 'genuses' of orchids together? Eg. Same Tribe, Same Sub-Tribe, Same Alliance

Thanks

[kmarch]

I'm over simplifying a little when I say this as exceptions do apply but generally only genera within the same alliance can be crossed. So in the Cattleya Alliance we have brassavola, cattleya, guaranthe, etc., etc., etc., and these can all be inter-bred. A cattleya and a dendrobium can not be crossed because they are form different alliances.

One exception is the Cypripedium Alliance (paphs, phrags, selepedium and cypripedium). As a rule, these genera can not be inter-bred eventhough they are in the same alliance. Many attempts have been made to cross paphs and phrags and some intergenerics have actually been successful enough to be flowered and registered, but it is so difficult to get any viable plants out of such an intergeneric that it simply isn't practical. I have never heard of any of these ever making it to the market. They're incredibly rare.
PhragWeb - Phragmipaphium - Hybrids.

[Dendian]

Are Phals and Vandas in the same Alliance? I know some of those have been cross bred - but only certain ones will... can't breed them huge white Phals to them huge blue Vandas... yet

[TheBlazingAugust]

Originally Posted by Dendian

Are Phals and Vandas in the same Alliance? I know some of those have been cross bred - but only certain ones will... can't breed them huge white Phals to them huge blue Vandas... yet

There are some Vandaenopsis (sp?) crosses out there, but I think they are sterile. That is one thing with intergeneric crosses within an Alliance, sometimes the ploidity does not match up. Obviously for the Catt and Onc alliance, there has been no problems, but when you hit the Phal/Vanda Alliance, you tend to get ploidity issues on far reaching crosses, which will usually cause the progeny to be sterile and any further breeding impossible.

[holatombola]

I wonder if they tried anything with colchicine... as it does something (Good) to the 'ploidness'. :L

[PaphMadMan]

There are over 200 Vandaenopsis and similar registered hybrids (throwing in Doritis and/or Ascocentrum combinations), including quite a few that do combine V. coerulea with standard Phals. Most of these hybrids have not been registered as parents, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are sterile, and a few have been. Maybe most of them just aren't promising enough to bother breeding with, though getting V. coerulea color into Phals would seem to be a goal worth persuing.

Rather than thinking of alliances, which are informal horticultural groupings, it is better to look at tribes and sub-tribes to determine what might be crossed succesfully. Anything in the same sub-tribe usually has at least a good chance of crossing (like Vanda and Phalaenopsis, sometimes considered in the same alliance), anything in the same tribe may have a slight chance (like Eurychone and Phalaenopsis, not in the same alliance or sub-tribe), but outside the same tribe there is virtually no chance.

Phalaenopsis and Brassia are not in the same tribe, so chances of a cross are way out there. The slipper orchids are all in the same alliance, but each genus is in its own sub-tribe, and most are their own tribe, so crosses between genera are rare at best. A few have been registered but most do not actually appear to be what they are claiimed to be, and I doubt any have been allowed to be genetically examined. If there was any proof that they were real hybrids it would be well publicized. The plants would sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars. It would be news.

Within a sub-tribe, mismatched chromosome counts or ploidy don't necessarily prevent hybrids but often lead to sterility. Sterility may have other causes as well.