Variegated Phal

[NBAMA]

I found a variegated phal at the local Lowe's over the weekend. Beautiful variegation on the leaves and I could not resist for $7.99.

I told a friend of mine about it who also grows orchids and he said that the variegation had been induced by intruducing viruses into the cloning process. He advised me to keep it away from the rest of my collection forever even though the plant shows no outward signs of virus. I don't have a picture but it is a lovely little noid. Has anyone else ever heard that virus caused the variegation?

[DesertRayne]

I did a quick search on Google and found this which might be helpful: [edit out -- links to other forums is not permitted]

I think the most common/easiest way to get leaves like that is by viruses, although there are likely other methods available. It's probably better to be safe than sorry. The only way to know for sure is to get it tested, especially if it's a noid.

[Greybeard]

I don't know about that one, I suppose it's possible like the blue dye added to make blue orchids but there are varigated chids out there, people love them because the plant looks good even without blooms, I love the look of them as well but it's hard to say what you have Good luck and keep researching

[Ron]

Hi there is many variegated Phallies in there leaf colours, most common is green and yellow stripes.
this a non viruses Type of leaf

[NBAMA]

I love the way it looks as well, I was just wondering if it has to be alone the rest of its life with me. I'm a cheapo, with it being a noid I'm not going to pay to have it tested. I guess I need to find him a variegated buddy to keep him company! It is blooming right now but with the variegated leaves it will look nice even when it is not.

[psyc1210]

When you are saying variegated,you mean the green leaves with the yellow/white edging on them?

[NBAMA]

Yes, the leaves are green with light white edges. Are you saying that it is not a threat to the rest of my collection?

[NBAMA]

Thanks for the link DesertRayne. Some interesting reading.

[psyc1210]

Originally Posted by NBAMA

Yes, the leaves are green with light white edges. Are you saying that it is not a threat to the rest of my collection?

Any plant could carry virus. What a lucky find to get a variegated Phal for that price.

[NBAMA]

It's roots lookeg great also. It was the only one they had at the time. Of course I had to look at every one they had. I just wish I knew at least one of it's parents. I wonder if it likes more light with it being variegated?

Does everyone treat their variegated plants the same as their non-variegated ones?

[psyc1210]

I don't have any variegated Phals, but I know Brooke does. Maybe she can chime in. I assume that she provides the same light for the variegated Phals as she does her other Phals.

[skipper]

We purchased one a few months ago from a greenhouse. I also like the looks of the plant. I find it hard to believe that a greenhouse would have plants that are known to have a virus, in with all of their other plants. We put ours with our other Phals. and so far there are no problems.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by NBAMA

It's roots lookeg great also. It was the only one they had at the time. Of course I had to look at every one they had. I just wish I knew at least one of it's parents. I wonder if it likes more light with it being variegated?

Does everyone treat their variegated plants the same as their non-variegated ones?

Hi I treat them the same as ordinary Phalls.
I have about 11 variegated plants at the moment.
These are all true varigated plants, green leaves lined with yellow edgeing.
Definatly not virused caused so relax and enjoy them

[kmarch]

If you're concerned, get the plant virus tested, but it's not the case that variegated plants are virused. I mean I can see why they might think that because some viruses produce pale (chlorophyll reduced) lines in the leaves of some orchids they infect but I've seen this in virused Den speciosum and it does not look like variegation.

[Andrew]

For all the hearsay about virus-induced variegation in Phals, can anyone point me to one report of someone innoculating a normal Phal with leaf tissue from a variegated Phal and producing variegation in the normal Phal? Robert Koch must be turning in his grave.

[NBAMA]

Thanks for the input everyone. I feel better now.

[Brooke]

Andrew I think the insinuation was the variegation showed up during the cloning process or when they were trying to change the ploidy.

NBAMA I have two variegated aphrodite and they are virus free, or were, but did have one variegated hybrid which tested positive. I don't think a variegated Phal has any higher chance of virus than any other Phal.

Brooke

[NBAMA]

Thanks Brooke, after seeing the pictures of some of your plants I feel some what better. I'm sure that if I tested all of my collection I would find a certain % that would be virused. I only have one that I know of. I have a catt that tested positive for CMV several years back but it continues to bloom every year and the blooms are very nice. The leaves look horrible but I keep it in solitary confinement all year and it continues to reward me with blooms. I just don't let it hang out with the rest of the kids. I'll watch the new phallie for a couple of more weeks and if I don't see anything obvious then he will get a seat with the rest of the clan.

[Brooke]

I'm afraid if we tested every orchid in our collection the percentage of virused plants would makes us grow philodendron Practice good growing habits, sanitary potting techniques and keep bugs at bay and

Brooke

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Brooke

Andrew I think the insinuation was the variegation showed up during the cloning process or when they were trying to change the ploidy.

Brooke,
I'm a bit confused as to who was insinuating what. I was refering to the following part of NBAMA's post, which is pretty indicative of comments I've seen on several forums:

Originally Posted by NBAMA

I told a friend of mine about it who also grows orchids and he said that the variegation had been induced by intruducing viruses into the cloning process.

Are you meaning that the variegation shows up during cloning in response to an viral infection or that variegation is simply a result of the cloning process itself? If you're talking about viral infection, it would seem to me that the meristem multiplication that is occurring during cloning is the same as the meristem multiplication that is occurring in the growing tip of a plant, albeit with a greater focus on multiplying and less pressure on differentiating. If an ex vitro plant is infected with a "variegation virus", surely variegation should show up in the new growth, assuming the virus produces a systemic infection. (If it produces a localised infection is it really that much of an issue for your other plants?) It also seems odd to me that none of the variegated Phals I've seen are particularly good plants. If you can induce variegation with a virus, why not infect an FCC Phal rather than some unawarded Aphrodite.

If you're saying that the variegation is produced non-virally during cloning, I also suspect this is the case. Variegation is a relatively rare occurance in most types of plants. On the otherhand, cloning, particularly at the mass production levels that occur in Asia where these Phals seem to orginate from, allows you to propagate so many plants that you increase the chance of seeing a variegated plant in a flask. I would presume variegated plantlets would be able to be seen in flask, so the propagator could select them out and propagate them quite early. Variegated orchids are also popular in various parts of Asia, which no doubt gives some incentive to select these plants out when they are seen.

The 3rd possiblity is that the variagation is induced by knocking out a gene controlling chlorophyll production using a non-virulent viral vector. Seriously though, knowing the costs involved in doing this, I don't see it happening if the end result is an $8 NOID.

[Brooke]

Andrew the "insinuation" on this side of the pond, among the Phal world, is it popped up during the use of chemicals either during the cloning or when someone was trying to change the ploidy on the plant. When the internet rumor started that ALL Phals with variegation are virused, I tested.

NBAMA asked a question, I answered it with my limited knowledge.

I will let you know in a few months if variegation can be seen in a mother flask. Both of my variegated aphrodite are currently carrying pods, due to be flasked in about two months.

Brooke

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Brooke

Andrew the "insinuation" on this side of the pond, among the Phal world, is it popped up during the use of chemicals either during the cloning or when someone was trying to change the ploidy on the plant. When the internet rumor started that ALL Phals with variegation are virused, I tested.

NBAMA asked a question, I answered it with my limited knowledge.

I will let you know in a few months if variegation can be seen in a mother flask. Both of my variegated aphrodite are currently carrying pods, due to be flasked in about two months.

Brooke

H I brought a flask of Phal amabilis (aphrodite) varigated mericlones.
was suppose to be 13 plants in the flask
10 were varigated and 3 turned out pure green.
I also have one in flower at the moment and for amabilis it is rather good shape but a bit small in size.
It will be interesting to see how many plants come from your pods variegated.
I think I posted a photo of them a fair while back but have not been very well latley and have not taken any recent photos.
Hopefully in the next week or so will post a photo of them, quiet a bit of variation amoungst them
Cheerio

O' the virus story, just another story to stir up trouble I suspect

[NBAMA]

Thanks for all of the info everyone. I feel much better about introducing my new bi-color friend to the rest of the group. He is a little fellow so I hope that they don't try to bully him around because of his color!

[Brooke]

Ron the variegated hybrid I HAD was virused and the first posting of the warning was by someone in Canada (I think) was about this particular hybrid. The story then evolved that ALL variegated Phals were virused and the virus caused the variegation. That particular plant could have become virused during the breeding, during the compot stage or in the growing out stage. No matter, it was virused.

Ron both of my variegated aphrodites were purchased at different times, as Phal. amabilis. Mine were confirmed instead to be aphrodite. I gave up the search for a pure amabilis because many of the current plants have been interbred by people who couldn't tell the difference. I don't need anymore white blooms, two is enough for me.

I think there will be quite a few variegated because the spike and pods are variegated. In the hosta world if you have a variegated stem and pod, you will get some variegated along with solid colors.

Hope you get to feelings better Ron and NBAMA I'm sure your new fellow will fit right in with the rest of them.

Brooke