Phalanopsis Flasks

[Allen Robins]

Being a newbie, I have read and reread the cultivation of phals in a flask. However, I still cant get my head around the propagation.Do I purchase a flask of 12 to 15 and repot them as I would to a punnet of seedlings? Any information would be great....Regards....AL

[terra_australis]

OK... Orchid seed is very difficult to germinate without specific conditions which is why it is generally done in-vitro (in asceptic conditions in flasks of nutrient media).

When you buy a flask there will be a number of small plants inside. Usually when a flask is offered for sale the plants inside should be at a size large enough for potting out. This is important because if the flask is posted to you it will often result in the contents being jumbled up so you will need to deflask upon receipt.

You should be aware that:

1) a percentage (possibly large percentage) of seedlings will die after removal from the flask depending on the conditions given to them.
2) it can take several years for seedlings to reach a flowering size.
3) Unless it is a mericlone flask (genetic material cloned from an existing plant) the seedlings could end up with a variety of different traits from their parents - like a litter of puppies

[pikkumyy]

from what i can remember, you get the flask, then when the orchids are ready to be deflasked (the person you bought them from should be able to tell you), you then separate them from each other, and pot them up into their individual pots with the chosen media... ill see if I can find the thread of someone that had some seeds flasked, here it is, step by step... it goes all the way from parent, to pod, to deflasking and im sure it will continue and it has heaps of info to

here is a photo of some seedlings i have that a friend gave me

[Onleme]

Thats basically it Allen, but I am no Phal expert so will leave it to someone that is.
With Dens and Cyms etc we pot them into 50mm tubes in a 50/50 mix of small pine bark and small coco chips, keep them in high shade, gradually bringing them into brighter light,

Steve

[terra_australis]

Oh, and to answer the second part of your question, yes, you would generally repot into growing media (such as bark and perlite or sphagnum) as several pots of a few plants each rather than individually. These are known as community pots - compots for short.

[pikkumyy]

oh and allen, just to add, make sure you keep your phals nice and warm, (my compot of 20 are in my bedroom with me, instead of being out in the shadehouse with the others)

[Allen Robins]

Once again, thanks for the info...so, let me get this right, I buy a flask of "artificially enseminated" orchids...say 50...the cost $20 to $50...about $1 each...BUT...wouldnt all the flowers be the same colour? or is the genetics different to animals.............Regards......AL

[Onleme]

Hi Allen,
Sonia here, if your plants are seedling crosses then you will get a mix of different flowers, as someone said earlier 'like a litter of puppies' all may be different. If you buy mericlones they will all be the same as the plant they were cloned from.
Have fun with it all.
We have found that when we deflask our dens and our cyms we don't tend to lose a great deal of them at all. Nice to know we must be doing something right.

[Allen Robins]

Thanks Sonia...That clears that up, I re read some of the information after I posted and felt a bit of a goose not to have realized the info......AL

[Allen Robins]

Originally Posted by pikkumyy

oh and allen, just to add, make sure you keep your phals nice and warm, (my compot of 20 are in my bedroom with me, instead of being out in the shadehouse with the others)

Michael...whats a compot,? or have I missed something again.........AL

[Allen Robins]

To my way of thinking, growing Phales and cymbidiums would not be a good idea owing to the different require ments....what about dendrobiums....mine are in the green house with the cymbidiums....they look healthy but no spikes as yet...............AL

[pikkumyy]

Originally Posted by Allen Robins

Michael...whats a compot,? or have I missed something again.........AL

to my knowledge a compot is just a bunch of seedlings put straight from the flask into the one pot and then grown on, mine is 20 phal seedling in a pot,
this is a dodgy photo i took with my webcam.
and the two other photo's are of the parent plants so they should turn out with characteristics of each other.

[pikkumyy]

here is actually an article done by ABC Gardening Australia, about the guy i bought them off, he used to be a member of my orchid society

Gardening Australia - Fact Sheet: Phalaenopsis

[terra_australis]

Originally Posted by Allen Robins

To my way of thinking, growing Phales and cymbidiums would not be a good idea owing to the different require ments....what about dendrobiums....mine are in the green house with the cymbidiums....they look healthy but no spikes as yet...............AL

You are right about that. Phals prefer much lower light levels than Cyms. Cyms actually seem to to best in nearly full sun (except in the heat of summer) but these conditions would make Phals unhappy. Most Dendrobiums should be at home with Cyms because they also prefer quite high light levels and similar watering/feeding requirements. Depending on the particular Dendrobiums however you may need to cut back on watering them during winter. Soft cane types like Den. nobile should be given less water over winter and this will stimulate flowering in spring. Most of the native Dendrobiums and Dockrillias should be right to water right through the year.

[Allen Robins]

Originally Posted by pikkumyy

to my knowledge a compot is just a bunch of seedlings put straight from the flask into the one pot and then grown on, mine is 20 phal seedling in a pot,
this is a dodgy photo i took with my webcam.
and the two other photo's are of the parent plants so they should turn out with characteristics of each other.

Michael, I assume you have planted ALL the flask in one pot, what then, do you thin them out as in seedlings or have you had success and grown the lot on to a larger size and then repotted them?.............AL

[Ron]

Hi Allen.
It is a big learning curve when you start out growing orchids.
I deflask 99% of my orchids and once you get the hang of it it is a very cheep way to build up a good collection.
Phalaenopsis Orchids are tropical, that is to grow them properly you need heat or a very warm spot in winter.
To grow successfully you need them to kept at a minimum of 16 C in winter.
I have included a few photos.
First is a community pot of young Paphiopedilums just deflasked in to a community pot
Next is Cymbidiums deflasked into individual pots,
and last, a bed full of just recently deflasks Phalaenopsis seedlings and mericlones

Most of these different types of orchids will take about 2 to 5 years to flower from flask

Cymbidiums cost AUD$1 each, same for the Phalaenopsis and the Paphiopedilums about AUD$5

[pikkumyy]

Originally Posted by Allen Robins

Michael, I assume you have planted ALL the flask in one pot, what then, do you thin them out as in seedlings or have you had success and grown the lot on to a larger size and then repotted them?.............AL

i personally didn't do it, but i believe you plant the desired amount into the pot then grow them on a bit, i believe it might be to remove the hassle of having to pot them all individually and a percentage of them dieing, which means a waste of time, im not sure as i have never deflasked before but hopefully ron will be able to explain it more throughly

[Allen Robins]

Originally Posted by Ron

Hi Allen.
It is a big learning curve when you start out growing orchids.
I deflask 99% of my orchids and once you get the hang of it it is a very cheep way to build up a good collection.
Phalaenopsis Orchids are tropical, that is to grow them properly you need heat or a very warm spot in winter.
To grow successfully you need them to kept at a minimum of 16 C in winter.
I have included a few photos.
First is a tray of young Cymbidiums deflasked into individual pots, next a community pot of Paphiopedilums just deflasked in to a community pot and last a bed full of just recently deflasks Phalaenopsis seedlings and mericlones

Most of these different types of orchids will take about 2 to 5 years to flower from flask

Cymbidiums cost AUD$1 each, same for the Phalaenopsis and the Paphiopedilums about AUD$5

Ron, is that your own collection or a photo of a wholesale supplier? ......AL

[pikkumyy]

they will all be rons, he has hundreds of them

[Allen Robins]

Originally Posted by pikkumyy

they will all be rons, he has hundreds of them

Theres a challenge...all those little mouths to feed....haha.....AL

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Allen Robins

Ron, is that your own collection or a photo of a wholesale supplier? ......AL

.
Hi Allan, this is from a part of my collection, to be honest it is a hobby that got the better of me.

To answer the above question on deflasking a flask and placing them in one compot.

Some of the better Australian nursery that will supply flasks to hobby growers usual have very well established plants in their flasks.
Take Paphiopedilums for example, a rather slow grower and often takes 3 to 5 years of more to flower.
I deflask all mine into community pots depending on each plants size.
I grade them usually into 3 grades, big, medium and small plants, place each lot into a community pots of the same size plants.
Big plants may only have 6 or so in a small seedling punnet, medium up to 9 or 10. small, maybe up to a dozen, some of these are often so small they will not survive but I give them a go.
If I deflasks in Spring I will leave in the community pot until next spring and then break up the pot and if big enough pot individually on.
You often can buy a flask of big exhibition type Paphs for about $80.
Often there will be a bout 25 + plants in them. Making it a good buy

Cymbidiums in a flask are differently dealt with.
These are a strong quick grower and I deflask and place into individual 2 inch sq pots, here they stay for 1 year and following spring then they go up in to 4 inch round pots of about 6 inches depth. Stay another year and then 7 inch pots were they should flower around 3 years of age.
Wow, that was a lot of info.

Hope it makes sense of the who de-flasking and growing on process
No I am not even a tiny commercial grower, just a hobby grower who seems to have lost control and became an impulsive or compulsive flask grower each time I get a new flask list
I do show my plants at local Orchid show and have done rather well over the years.
It is a fun and very rewarding hooby to be in.

[Filb]

Originally Posted by Onleme

Hi Allen,
Sonia here, if your plants are seedling crosses then you will get a mix of different flowers, as someone said earlier 'like a litter of puppies' all may be different. If you buy mericlones they will all be the same as the plant they were cloned from.

I just want to clarify (and maybe this is what you meant) but even if you have plants grown from seed, they will have the basic characteristics of the species but may vary slightly in coloring, shape etc.

[Anton]

Allen, my advice is, don't bother with flasks until you have been in the game for a while and have the set up for it.

4 years ago I bought 6 flasks from the Bali Orchid Gardens with around 30 odd plants in each flask, I ONLY have 12 Vanda seedlings left from that collection.

To do it properly as Ron mentioned, you have to have the right growing conditions, which involves, warm, moist atmosphere, patience, a clean environment free from mould, fungus, and diseases, patience, good lighting, patience, good clean media and above all patience.

Been there done that, these days, even with the set up I have, I prefer to get advanced seedlings or mature Near Flowering Size (NFS) plants, because unless you have the time on your hands like Ron does, it is more trouble than it is worth.

If you still think it is worth a try, get a flask of inexpensive plants that you can afford to lose a few without shedding tears over them and read up in the Newbie or Cultivation Section of the Forum to get hints and tips.

Our summers here in SA of a few years ago, absolutely destroyed over 80% of my deflasked seedlings from Bali as I wasn't able to keep the temperatures down sufficiently for them to "have a breather" overnight, and when you have 3 to 4 weeks of daytime temps of 40C plus, and over night lows in the high 30sC, it is not good, even for the warm growers.

I can show you images of all my deflasked seedlings looking great and filling most of my original little GH about 3 years ago, but not any more.

Here in SA, our summers aren't kind to a lot of orchids.

With my experiences over the past 4 years, my new GH is designed to keep heat levels down with 2 of the largest whirlygigs you can get to expel the heat up, I have a false ceiling of 2 metres above the 3 metre "working area" of the GH, again to pull heat away from the plants, a fogging system on a timer that does 10 second bursts very 20 minutes, a rotary fan above the door for continued circulation and to cool the fog, and a heater / fan under the middle bench also to keep the air moving at floor level.

THEN comes winter, you'll have to think about heating and humidity, I have just been through this exercise this year for the first time as I lost a huge amount of stock last winter from too many cold days and nights with several weeks of no sun from cloud cover.

That's the reason why I bought the growth lights, to provide good lighting even when we have several weeks of cloud cover, and the heater to keep daytime temperatures around 25C and overnight lows of 15C - 18C.

Even with all this, I am not going to purchase flasks as I know, down here in Adelaide that the summers are only going to get worse over time, and I would rather have strong, pre established seedlings to be able to cope.

That is my 2 petals worth from someone in your vicinity. So, if you want to get into Phallies, please consider all of the above if you want to have successful growing.

I am probably one of only 2 or 3 private growers who are set up for warm growers here in Adelaide, most of our club's members only grow cold growers as it is too much effort to set up a successful warm growing environment.

Just passing on my experiences, so let me know by Private Message if you want more details and I'll fill you in.

So far, I have spent in the vicinity of $9,500 to get my set up to this standard, and I hate to say it, but there's a few more things I need to do, such as getting 3 X 5,500litre water tanks with high pressure pump, and connecting to the GH for the fogging system(to be installed in early August), getting a ceiling fan installed to push down warm air at night to make the heater more efficient, and to suck up hot air in summer to get it out thru the whirlygigs, and we're getting a 3Kw solar panel system installed in August as well, to try and keep the power bills within a "acceptable range" due to the 3Kw GH heater I have.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!! NOW I AM SCARING MYSELF !!!!!!!!!!

I could have gone to the States on a holiday for that amount.

What we do for our plants, hope they appreciate it...........

[Allen Robins]

Ron and Anton, you really have opened my eyes with your advice and presentation.

After reading, and re reading your posts I think that I will be quite happy to find maybe a dozen phalls in advanced stages and concentrate on them.

As Anton mentioned, we have unforgiving summers here, and at least I can move them inside in the cool.

Once again, thank you for your time.............AL