Lets talk about Fertilizer!

[Shannara]

Over the past few years I find myself going through different brands and blends of fertilizer. I would like to find out what you all are using and why. How long you have been using it and what made you come to the decision to use the fertilizer you have selected.

Up until now I was using a Jack's 20-20-20 or that old Shultz Orchid 19-31-17. Honestly, I didn't start taking my fertilizer as seriously as I should have until recently. I decided to look into using a Urea free fertilizer based on articles I read that indicate Urea based nitrogren is not absorbed efficiently by orchids. Any thoughts/opinions on that?

I now have two new fertilizers and am anxious to find out if I will see a noticable difference in the growth and overall health of my orchids. First up is Grow More Urea Free 20-10-20 and the second an MSU Tap Water Special 19-4-23 which also appears to be Urea free. The MSU fertilizer lists quite a few more micronutrients than the Grow More. I am going to be switching between the two every other week. On top of that my orchids are also receiving rainfall, which hasn't been much lately, that is also another source of nitrogen for them.

Also, what is the shelf life of most fertilizers and is there a way to store it to prolong its shelf life?

I would be interested to find out what you all have selected to use on your orchids.

Shann~

[Emma Grey]

I'm interested to see what everyone uses as well. I've only got the generic orchid fert from Lowe's, and the only reason I use it is because it was what they had when I went to get some orchid food.

[BGGraham1]

I also use the Grow More. One of the orchid society people at the county fair was talking to some people about how she grow her award winner, and she said Grow More was all she used. She went on and on about the urea free aspect of it, but it was meaningless to me at the time. ( I had just killed two Phals, and was afraid of orchids.)

I have the Blue one, the green one and the pink one. Two of them are supposed to be for Cyms, one for Feb - Oct and one for the blooming season, and one for Phals and others. We'll see what happens.

By the way, George Hatfield from Hatfield's Orchids says he only uses a slow release fertilizer on his Cyms. (that's all he grows.) I'll probably try it when I'm finished with the Grow More.

[steam fire and ice]

I am very curious about what everyone is using. I havent used any myself, some because I dont know about the brands here in japanese and what would be good and what wouldnt be.

[Ron]

Hi you will find most fertilizers (apart from the cheep one) are very simular in contents, the more expensives one usually contin trace elements in them.

As we are growing flowering plants I like to keep a reasonable low nitrogen and if possible urea free. In Australai our NPK numbers of % are different then how you set up yours.
I have been using for my Paphiopedilums, Phalaenopsis, Catts and Natives, a product from an Australian company called HSO. It is Paph green of around 15N 8P 20+ K (K is the high part I like to produce flowers) + trace elements.
Works perfect for all above orchids.
Check out
Explanation of NPK and fertilizers

[orchids4me]

I had been using grow more 2 of 3 kinds on hand for past 2 years. I switched 2 months ago to MSU. After seeing many. Members plants and blooms over time. I noticed most were either using one called jacks I think it was or MSU. So I decided to try it out let me tell you my flask babies said yum! And poped out new growths and roots and if you saw my Dens from VEEKTOR the crazy rootkeiki. I'm wondering if it may be part of the reason. I will be applying more this week. I had only done it once so far and hadn't had time to do it so skipped a month (may) but at 1/4 strength one time especially with my year old flask babies the results were obvious. From the previous brand. And it showed in the 3 and 4 month old babies out of flask also. And lots of new growths and roots on my adult plants as well.....
So at this point. I'm happy with the MSU fert. Got some sea weed extract also but I can't figure out where I put it lol. Had to pack up some stuff 2 months ago and put in the garage. I plan to add it to the fert this time to see what it does.

[syndywindy]

I have been using MSU fert since I started growing orchids and have been happy with it. And I never use full strength. Depending on time of year it varies from 1/4 strength to 1/2 strength. I also vary when I use it, every 2-3 waterings during active growing and once a month or even less during winter.

[rcb]

I've used various fertilizers over the years. I've never seen a short term difference, but I have seen long term deficiencies, especially when I started using inorganic media.

Over the years, I have known amazing growers who used Miracle Gro to MSU. I'm not sure it is which fertilizer is important (as long as it has the nutrients needed) but that the fertilizer you use is used correctly.

To extend the life of the fertilizer, a cool dry spot for storage is best, just like most chemicals. I have problems with them when I kept them out on my covered patio, the humidity messes it up.

I don't use bloom boosters.

[dounoharm]

i use only the msu for tap water now, or if i run out, peters special is always on hand.....i dont think it matters much as long as it is urea free and has trace minerals....i also use epsom salts about 6 times a year....a tad of superthrive.....thats about it...i dont use bloom boosters either.....

[E-Jag]

I use Jacks 20-20-20 with a calcium supplement once a week since Jacks doesn't contain it. I add Epsom salt once a month.

[Stitz]

Not all Grow More products are urea free.

I use their 20-10-20 and 21-7-7, both are urea free. If my plants are unable to process urea nitrogen, why waste money on it?


--Stitz--

[BGGraham1]

what do the epsom salts do?

[Reg22]

Epsom salts provide magnesium. Magnesium deficiency causes reddening of foliage. I'm sure it causes other stuff too, but that's where my knowledge ends!

[Ron]

what do the epsom salts do?

magnesium sulphate
What do Epsom Salts do for Plants?
Epsom salts contain hydrated magnesium sulfate, two elements crucial to plant growth.

* Sulfur (13%) is crucial to the inner workings of plants, but it is almost never lacking in the soil, thanks in part to synthetic fertilizers and acid rain.

* Magnesium (10%) can become scarce in soil, usually because of erosion or depletion of the top soil or a pH imbalance. Some plants, like lettuce and spinach, don’t mind going without magnesium. Others may exhibit symptoms like leaf curing, stunted growth, that could be attributed to more than one cause. Magnesium deficiency has even been blamed as a cause for biter tomatoes.

In general, magnesium plays a role in strengthening the plant cell walls, allowing the plant to take in the nutrients it needs. It also aids in seed germination, photosynthesis and in the formation of fruits and seeds.

[Shannara]

That's great info Ron. I appreciate the explanation. I gotta get some epson salts!

Shann~

[Amblnc38]

What ratio should be used? Or rather do you use?

[Ray]

Each plant will have its own needs for the individual nutrients - the macros, the minors, and the trace elements. I don't think there is enough science out there to determine what it is for each plant, so Bill Argo and the gang from Michigan State took the approach of compiling as much of the known science as possible - growth studies, tissue analyses, ash studies, etc. - and came up with a formulation that is probably the best one available for the broadest range of orchids. The 125 ppm N target that they found to be quite effective for a varied collection (as do I) was just a guess that worked.

I'm sure some plants will want more of some of the nutrients, some will need less, so you can experiment, but that 125 ppm N of the MSU seems to be pretty good.

Originally Posted by Amblnc38

What ratio should be used? Or rather do you use?

As to the Epsom Salts, if you consider my argument about the MSU formula to be reasonably valid, and if you want to apply as much magnesium as is in it, it's the equivalent of roughly 1/8 teaspoon per gallon, added every time you fertilize your plants. Most folks find it easier to add it once a month, so about a teaspoon per gallon is fine. I have added as much as a tablespoon per gallon, and while it did no harm, I don't think it was any benefit to use that much.

[jpyerry]

I started out using Schultz's plant food, but quickly abandoned it because I noticed no difference whatsoever between using it and not using it. I have never used Miracle Gro on any of my orchids because I had some very bad luck using some of their soils on my regular houseplants and thus I avoid their products altogether.

My next attempt at fertilizer was using Fox Farm because they were being heavily hyped by my local gardening center. This was a disaster, many of my houseplants lost a lot of foliage due to nitrogen and potassium lockout (and who knows what else) after only one week with their regimen. After doing a lot of research, it turns out that their products significantly alter pH and will cause problems if your water has any significant TDS content. Also, despite their deceptive advertisements about their products being organic, only a handful of their products actually are. Anyways, after the houseplant disaster, I took my orchids and flushed them thoroughly and no adverse effects were noted.

I finally decided to do a lot of research and I have changed my regime to the following: I use MSU tap water formula at the strength indicated with the instructions, a few drops of SuperThrive (though I have not read any compelling literature that it does much of anything), Dyna Gro Pro-Tekkt full strength, and Physan 20 (I do this because as prophylaxis because my grow tent is in a basement, and I have problems with mold, fungi, bacterial rot, etc, if I don't include it in my regime, btw I would love to get them out of the basement but it is my only option currently) weekly and once every 4 weeks KLN rooting hormone because I think it helps the roots, I will also water with plain water between fertilizer regimens. I try to use distilled or RO water when I have the money and energy to buy it, pH and TDS seem acceptable after adding nutrients, but when I don't have the distilled water or RO water, I will use tap water that I dechlorinate and let sit out overnight, after adding nutrients, I will adjust pH using citric acid crystals to pH of 6.2-6.6. I will also spray their foliage about once a month with a mixture of Neptune's Harvest fish & seaweed fertilizer and Dyna Gro Pro-Tekkt.

Since changing to this regimen, I have seen pretty positive results. With a few exceptions, my orchids are displaying fairly vigorous results (although none are in bloom right now).

Anyways, I hope this helps.

As a last note, I grow almost exclusively Phalaenopsis species.

[Leafmite]

I grow in lava rock. I use the Epsom salts every other month and Better Gro urea-free fertilizer twice a month, weakly. I have a half-whiskey barrel pond with a lily, lotus, underwater plants and five goldfish. I use calcium-rich fertilizer tablets for the water plants and only add pure water. I nearly always use this 'pond' water to water all my plants. I figure that between the goldfish, pond tablets, composting water plants, the Epsom salts and the fertilizer, my orchids are getting what they need. They grow well and the few blooming-sized ones put out nice buds or healthy spikes that I nearly always manage to bump and mangle (explaining why I just bought a psychopsis mendenhall 'hildos' with cute leaves).
Leafmite

[Musika]

I just started using MiracleGro Orchid food. It says its 30-10-10. I am not sure how well it will work. But I have been using the MiracleGro Orchid potting mix for 4 months and my plants are doing great! So I thought I would try the food too. But I am a newbie so I thought this would be the easiest to use till I learn more.

[Amblnc38]

I *always* end up with bugs from Miracle Grow potting mixes. *Always*.

[greg_s]

I am starting to pay closer attention to my fertilizer now too. I tend to use Jacks 20-20-20 but I'm not sure if I am truly using it correctly. Is everyone using the generals at 1/2 or 1/3 recommended strength?

[zildjian]

Originally Posted by Leafmite

I grow in lava rock. I use the Epsom salts every other month and Better Gro urea-free fertilizer twice a month, weakly. I have a half-whiskey barrel pond with a lily, lotus, underwater plants and five goldfish. I use calcium-rich fertilizer tablets for the water plants and only add pure water. I nearly always use this 'pond' water to water all my plants. I figure that between the goldfish, pond tablets, composting water plants, the Epsom salts and the fertilizer, my orchids are getting what they need. They grow well and the few blooming-sized ones put out nice buds or healthy spikes that I nearly always manage to bump and mangle (explaining why I just bought a psychopsis mendenhall 'hildos' with cute leaves).
Leafmite

interesting. all of my paphs now are in lava rock with a mix of limestone and some of my phals are in lava rock as well. can you share more on the half-whiskey barrel pond? i'm always interested on out of the box method. i hope you can share more on your method. thanks.

[Fishmom]

I use DynaGrow Grow (7-9-5) with trace elements. It is almost exactly the same as the Orchid formulation, but my local hydroponic store stopped carrying the Orchid formula and told me it was being phased out by the company. I like using a liquid formula as it is so easy to use. I aim for weekly weakly, with an occasional skip.

I've been pretty pleased, but I overheard a conversation at the DVOS show last weekend, where a semi-professional grower told someone that over time DynaGrow can cause problems with roots, and that Grow-More is better. I wish I'd questioned this at the time; now everytime something looks less than vigorous, I'm going to wonder if it's the fertilizer! Does anyone have any negative feedback about DynaGrow?

[rcb]

I used Dyna Grow 7-9-5 for years. I switched last year to a MSU type formula, and my orchids seem more vigorous.

I can say that I don't ever remember root problems from the Dyna Grow though. When I had root problems, it was almost definitely something I did lol

But as a disclaimer, that is not all that I changed.

[Leafmite]

My mini-pond has five goldfish and some plants. The pond needs water changes to keep the water healthy so I use the water on my plants and fill with pure water from rain or the dehumidifier. The water is filled with nutrients from the goldfish by-products, decaying leaf matter, and what seeps into the pond from the tablets I use for my water lilies. My plants really do well with this. Recently, though, I went to using an organic fertilizer instead of the inorganic fertilizer I was adding. I had bought Hollytone, saw great results, and I am using the counterpart for the other plants. I don't remember to add fertilizer often so the pond water is what sustains them.
Leafmite

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Musika

I just started using MiracleGro Orchid food. It says its 30-10-10.

If you use that formula exclusively, you will find your plants growing great - nice, emerald green leaves - that will rarely bloom and will become soft and easily attacked by pathogens and insects.

It's simply too high in nitrogen.

[Cym Ladye]

Originally Posted by Ray

If you use that formula exclusively, you will find your plants growing great - nice, emerald green leaves - that will rarely bloom and will become soft and easily attacked by pathogens and insects.

It's simply too high in nitrogen.

I used Grow More 30-10-10 from Feb to August and 10-30-30 from Sept to Dec on my Cyms for years with good results. I then switched five years ago to MSU with even better results. The high nitrogen during the growing season works well for Cyms if USED CORRECTLY, and stopped in late summer with a switch to a low nitrogen formula. Ray is absolutely correct in his statement.

Cym Ladye

[PaulB]

I too have used Grow More 30-10-10 from Feb to August and 10-30-30 from Sept to Dec on my Cyms for many years and have always had good results, but Since there was a question about the shelf life, I decided to call Grow More in Gardena, CA.

1. According to Dexter, there is no shelf life issue, since these orchid foods are chemical.
2. He also suggests the Grow More® Urea Free 20-10-20 for Cymbidiums all year. He says one of the largest Cymbidium growers in Santa Barbara, CA uses it exclusively. (looks like I'm going to switch).

[Ray]

Originally Posted by PaulB

I too have used Grow More 30-10-10 from Feb to August and 10-30-30 from Sept to Dec on my Cyms for many years and have always had good results, but Since there was a question about the shelf life, I decided to call Grow More in Gardena, CA.

1. According to Dexter, there is no shelf life issue, since these orchid foods are chemical.

Either you shortened his response Paul, or Dexter is an idiot. EVERYTHING is "chemical".

As the fertilizer components are inorganic mineral chemicals, it will have good stability. Many organic chemicals have very short shelf lives - the rooting hormones, for example.

[exotic_plant]

I am using the same fertilizer as for all my plants. npk is 15-15-15 or 10-10-10.

[Mira-Claude]

I must admit that I very rarely fertilize.
In Montreal tap water is an upmost concern, it as been cleaned, boiled, filtered, added in trace elements like magnesium and fluorine, it is as low in chlorine as possible and drinkable.
So I go for cheap and use my tap water and I add superthrive every watering except once every five days or so.
I do have to buy distilled water to rinse the onc. family members though.

[koshki]

I was an infrequent fertilizer-er until this past summer when I started using a 2-gallon pump sprayer to fertilize. I now use the sprayer indoors and have been much more consistent with fertilizing my plants...sometimes weekly, but at least every other week. By taking off the nozzle on the sprayer, the flow is much faster and I can get nearly my whole collection done in about 30-45 minutes. Plus it's a more efficient delivery system than dumping the contents of a gallon jug over the plant.

At Ray's recommendation, I use MSU at 125 ppm N. I've got lots of growth, spikes and blooms. Some of my most stubborn plants are growing!

For me, the key was finding an easy way to fertilize, and the pump sprayer is it for me!

[Suncoast]

As a novice, switching from Jack's Classic to urea free Better Gro taught me a couple of valuable lessons. I also use a pump sprayer to fertilize. When I switched, I soon found the roots on my phals were getting burned. I decided, possibly incorrectly, that the phals take in more of the Urea free version of nitrogen and get burned. Second, after talking to fellow hobbyists, I learned you never follow the directions on the package. I've found both of these fertilizers must be diluted down to about 1/4 to 1/3rd of package directions. Luckily for me, I noticed the issue before the problem spread to my larger collections, although my big den. white fairy also suffered some damage.

[krpot]

I have the Gro More grow and bloom formulas also sometimes I use seaweed fert, epsom salt, old fish tank water and dyna-grow. I don't know if I'm the one to ask because I switch it up so often. I think of them like humans you have to switch up your diet and be an explorative eater to get everything you need.