Timed release fertilizer for various orchids?

[koshki]

Hi all,
Well, despite my best intentions to fertilize "weekly weakly", I just haven't been able to manage it. So now I'm investigating timed release fertilizers.

What timed release fertilizer would you recommend (I use city water), and where can I find it? How much do you apply for different types of orchids?

I'm especially concerned about the fert-sensitive plants like masdies and phrags, but I have a number of other genera as well.

Thanks!

[SK7]

I've heard some negative things about using timed release fertilizer on orchids other than Cymbidiums. I'll try to recall what exactly those were and post soon.

[ysanabria]

Katherina here is a link about time realeased fertilizer
Pros and cons of slow release fertilizer??

[Ron]

Hi Katherine.
Timed release or slow release as theya re called in the trade are very good for some orchids but fertilizer sentive orchids like Pahs, Phrags, Masd etc, can have their complete root system burn off in a few hot days.
Most of the beeter slow release fertilizers are tempature controlled released, depending on what crop (Orchid!) you are growing.
I use a slow release on my Australian Native Dendrobiums quiet ok Same on on my Cymbidiums.
It is called Scotts special Hi K 6 to 9 months slow release at 23 C or 72F. (starts to work above this temperature, Works wonders

[Anton]

Can't trust them !!!!

Most of them rely on a certain temperature range to work effectively, outside of that range, you might as well try fertilizing with gravel.

With liquid and powder ferts, you know exactly what quantities you are putting in, and that it will work straight away, and that your plants are getting the benefit from that food.

Sorry, but to me slow release ferts are for people who don't care enough about their plants to put the effort in to having a range of ferts to use for different plants and times of the year.

Yes, it does take a little bit of time and effort to get it right, but when it does work, your plants will reward you.

As Willowbanks once told me, "When you get your feeding regime right, your plants will reward you with good roots and flowers," and he is correct.

I have powdered bloom food and grow food ( a couple of different varieties), liquid seaweed, liquid fish meal, Epsom Salts, raw sugar, and a liquid fert.

These ingredients are rotated and mixed together in different combinations regularly so that my plants get all round nutrition throughout the year.

I can't guarantee that I can keep my growing conditions within the limits of slow release for it to be effective.

[Brooke]

Katherine many professional growers use the time release and they seem to do OK with it. The temperature sensitive thing is Osmocote won't release fert below 55 and above 85 "might" release it all at once. Supposedly they solved the problem when the made Nutricote and it does not explode at high temps. I've used both products outside in the garden and never had a problem with either of them.

There is a generic product named Dynamite that is supposed to be the same as Nutricote. I looked at the container and the only thing I remember about the NPK was the nitrogen was partially urea.

When I do receive an orchid with the time release in the media there is never very much of it in there. I've even received orchids in baskets with the little pellets in them. I think if you wanted to give it a try a small amount in the container shouldn't be a problem. Easy does it would be a good motto.

Brooke

[katrina]

I've had the same trouble in previous years...too many plants and just didn't fertilize as regularly as I knew I should (during their indoor months) so last Fall I decided to give Dynamite a try.

The product I bought has no Urea...it's all Nitrate Nitrogen and Ammoniacal Nitrogen. A 13-13-13 product.

I used it on everything except my phrags, masides and bulbos. And the mounts, of course.

I can't say for certain but I suspect it is the reason for my trouble w/my seedling phals. The evidence is strong and points to the granular fert. Maybe I used too much but I used what the directions said. Or, maybe their baby roots just couldn't take it. Regardless, I was having trouble w/them...lost a few...repotted and remove the fert and all is now back on track.

As for the rest of my plants...it certainly didn't hurt them. I can't say whether it helped at all but I figure a little fert is better than no fert.

I've been much better about fertilizing everything else as needed simply because the task is not so overwhelming now.

The product I have is good for only 6-9 months so I figure by the time the plants move outside they'll be fine w/my regular watering fertilizing regimen.

Will I use it again? Probably. I just won't use it on any seedlings.

If Renee doesn't see this thread...PM her because I believe she uses/used granular, slow release.

[rcb]

Kat, yes I see it

Fertilizer as you all know is highly individual preferences.

I know some well known, very good growers here in the US do use it (the Dynamite/Nutricote type) you can tell because when you receive plants, you can see it in their potting mix.

All I'm about to write is just my opinion, and things I've noticed.

I tried Osmocote, back when I lived in NC. I had a lot of root burn. Was it directly related to the Osmocote? I can't say for sure. Also want to add our summer days there regularly reached high 90F, and even into the 100+F. So stopped using it. But the tomatoes really responded to it!

I've tried Nutricote while living in Charlotte as well. Don't know the time for active release or details of it as I bought a portioned bag from an orchid grower. I did not have root burn with this product, and plants seemed to grow fine. I did supplement periodically with "normal" orchid fertilizer as well, maybe once a month or so? At the time I grew mostly on mounts or in bark. The amount I used was less than recommended. Maybe 1/2 tsp or less in a 4" to 5" pot. I just scattered it on top, and it worked it's way down and in over time.

Here in FL, last summer, I thought since we get so much rain, and I couldn't fertilize myself as much (or just plain didn't want to), I bought Dynamite last spring. Mine is also no urea containing. I used it last summer, but now I don't use bark anymore. LECA, CHC, spag or mounted. BTW, I do tuck one or two pieces into the spag on my mounts when I can. I also supplemented with Bettergrow fertilizer as well.

But I had a problem. I think I had Ca deficiency last summer. The Dynamite contains no Ca, and my tap water has extremely low Ca also. And rain of course doesn't. And the Bettergrow didn't contain Ca either.

So, I don't use it anymore on everything, but it is because I have to fertilize with a product that contains Ca. But I sincerely doubt this would be a problem for you. The vast majority of the US has plenty of Ca in the tap water.

But I do still scatter some on the types that need a bit more fertilizer than the average orchid, like my Catasetums, Gongoras etc. They still get the regular fertilizing I do on everything else. Also I still use the 6 - 9 month formula which matches up to the summer growing season here.

So to answer your question, in my opinion, if you use the right amount, not too much, it won't hurt. And yes you can probably spread out the supplemental fertilizings, but when you do, make sure you don't use too high of a concentration, go for the 1/2 recommended amount level.

[rcb]

Oh, wanted to add Phrags - no opinion on, haven't ever grown one.

Masdies - what about putting just one or two pieces in, that way, especially since Masdies don't dry out, and I guess you water/flush often, you would have a continous minute amount constantly.

[Ron]

Sorry, but to me slow release ferts are for people who don't care enough about their plants to put the effort in to having a range of ferts to use for different plants and times of the year.

Your option Anton.
I did a trail of 40 1 year old Cymbidiums with full strengths liquid fertilizer, nearly every watering.
40 same size Cymbidiums with slow release, the were a mile ahead after 12 months.
Most of the liquid fertilizer you pour on your orchids runs straight through the mix. Waste of time and effort.
I am not lazy just PROFESSIONAL IN THE WAY I GROW ORCHIDS

[Reg22]

I've had good results with Dynamite on my phals and hard-cane dens. I've read that here in south Florida, this particular brand of slow-release tolerates our high heat and humidity well.

[koshki]

Thanks everyone for your input.

Anton, I know you don't mean to be mean, and perhaps you aren't aware, but I grow orchids indoors from a wheelchair. I have to take all my orchids, most of them one by one, to the sink to water and then back to the sunroom. Just watering them takes hours, literally. It's to the point that I was nearly in agreement with Kat during her April Fool's joke (until I got to the punchline! )

Fertilizing more than doubles the time, as I have to water, then wait, then fertilize one batch at a time. It's also awkward, physically, for me to do it, as I have to mix up a batch of fertilizer in a gallon jug, then apply that from the jug (I just run the pots under the faucet when I'm watering). Repeat and repeat and repeat. This is all done in the kitchen, and water gets everywhere. And it takes longer than I can do between the time I get up and the time I have to fix dinner. I just can't do that weekly!

I could, of course, remedy my problem by getting rid of half of my collection...NOT!

This summer I have plans to take a lot of my orchids outdoors, which makes the entire process a lot easier. But eventually they all have to come back in.

I know using timed release products is not optimal...but I think at this point, it would be better than nothing, which is what they're getting now.

So it sounds like the Dynamite without urea is the best option? Does anyone know if there is an MSU slow release product? I saw that First Ray's carries one for well-water, but I would need one for city water.

Oh, and Renee, thanks for the info about the tomatoes! I may try that this year.

[E-Jag]

I don't have an opinion because I don't use it, but I would caution against using it with those plants that require you stop fertilizing at a certain point (nobile type dens, for example). You can, however, use the stuff in packets (Dynamite) and then just remove the packets, I suppose. Obviously you'd have to have a pretty good feel for when and how long it's being released.

[Anton]

Koshki, there are ALWAYS exceptions.

I am mainly referring to those that don't have your limitations, and as you mentioned, my comments are not meant to be taken in a harsh way, it is just my opinion, which mostly doesn't count for much.

I have had bad experiences with slow release and won't ever use it again, I lost too m any good plants, through under and over fertilising due to our large temperature range where I live (105++F for 2 to 3 weeks at a time in summer, down to the high 40s in winter)

Ron, the run off keeps the gravel in my GH moist, so I don't have issues with that.
I have a photo album full of club awards for my cyms and all fed with liquid fert, so this is what works for me.

[digitalgate]

I find for dendrobium seedling, it grows very fast. But it also produce distorted growth. (annual averge temperature here is above 85F) In addition to granular, i also supplement with weekly peters fertilizers.

[Ron]

Hi Kath.
I think the main aim is to help people on the forum.
There is tons of good fertilizers out there, all made to suit a purpose, from hydroponic type to general purpose.
While being wheel chair bound is tragic and I feel very proud that you take the effort to grow and look after your orchids, wonderful spirit lifting hobby.
I have been through the wheel chair stay for a year or so, so it can be tough

This I believe is a wonderful place to get help and assistance on when you have a problem or need a new way of growing things.

First we are trying to grow orchids in a far superior way then they are growing in the wild
Things like Masdevallias for example with their fine root system like a constant moist medium and are not generally regarded as a hungry plant (that is they do not need a lot of fertilizer).
Paphs, Phrags, Odonts, Aust. Native Sarc's etc all fit into this category, so the do not need a lot of fertilizer.
Just a small amount every second or third water in the growing season, what ever type, just as long as you have a balanced NPK. (I would never use a slow release on them and do not use it)
Phallaenopsis on the other hand do not mind a bit more food in the growing season (hot summers) but I never use a slow release on them, it is far too strong for their root system, I just use a bit more than my Paphs, say about 3/4 teaspoon per 10 lt water (about 2 of your gallons.) ever second or third watering in hot weather, for me hot weather is when it goes above 28C (about 82F).
Balanced fertilizer for flowering plants (orchids) is never high in the nitrogen side (N) but rather high in the K side.
So my general orchid fertilizer for most of my orchids is about 15N. 7P. 20K plus trace elements.
Additional organic between these fertilizer usages is I find very beneficial to the mix and plant, helps keep up the microbes etc in the mix which make the chemical fertilizer more usable to the plants

I grow all my Cymbidiums out side in a shade house, these plants are regarded as the hungry type of Orchid, they grow big bulbs often large then a grapefruit, there for they need to be feed rater heavily.
Most commercial growers used drip irrigation and fertilizer the same way.
Lots use the commercial types of slow release again a NPK as stated above, avoiding fertilizers high in N, this only promotes excess growth.
The reason they set the tempature release at say 23C (75F) is these type of plants do not grow much below these tempatures so why release fertilizer onto the roots when the plants are not in active growth!

Cymbidiums love lots of sunlight, fresh air and fresh water, lightly shade enough to avoid sunburn.
Again a wonderful hobby, I am an invalid due to health problems and without this wonderful hobby of growing orchids I would most like be another splat on the bottom of your Grand Canyon

Keep up the good work, life has so many wonderful moments

[katrina]

Originally Posted by Anton

Sorry, but to me slow release ferts are for people who don't care enough about their plants to put the effort in to having a range of ferts to use for different plants and times of the year.

Anton, but your statement did come off as harsh. Look...you have no clue what someone else's schedule and/or circumstances may involve so to ASSUME an individual doesn't care as much because they use granular fertilizer is ridiculous.

I bet your opinion would change if you had to carry nearly 300 plants to a sink every week for a good soaking and then fertilizing...for 8 months. In Katherine's case she has to do it from a wheelchair but we'll let you walk it (like I and others do).

[koshki]

Ok, I just re-read my post, and I'm sorry I did not mean to pull out the "poor me" thing and turn it into a rebuke. Honestly, I try not to let it bother me, and orchids are a great way of keeping busy at something that likes me no matter what. (Remember, also, I have a teenage daughter )

And Anton, I KNOW you are a nice guy with a great sense of humor, so I didn't take it personally. AND, I know you are trying to help me and others take good care of their orchids.

Which, bottom line, is what I'm trying to do...find an effective way of taking better care of my orchids, given the way I have to do it.

[rcb]

Originally Posted by koshki

Which, bottom line, is what I'm trying to do...find an effective way of taking better care of my orchids, given the way I have to do it.

Katherine, and that is the only thing all of us can do.

My plants NEED fertilized, and pesticided again. But it's not happening today, I'm off to work here in a hour or so, and will be gone all day. Tomorrow is not looking good either.

I have shortcuts, and my plants show it, I get bruising on leaves due to falling off benches during storms and sunburn seems to be my best friend sometimes. I have three plants right now sitting unpotted cause of the last storm. They are going to have to wait.

I have been making attempts to not just flower, but grow them better, but...

but life interferes.

My outlook is we grow these because we enjoy them. If a person is happy with what they achieve, then that is all that matters.

Just my two cents

[willowbanks]

Hello Koshki, poor old Anton seems to be getting a flogging for his comment above, it was just a broad statement and not aimed at you. The rest of his info was very good and I hope it has other Geeks checking the temperature range that is required for these slow release products to work effectively.

You say you are moving about 300 plants to the sink and running the tape on them to water them, that is a lot of work not to mention that the water goes everywhere.

Obviously there is a reason why you can't water them in the sun room, so have you considered putting the plug in the sink and soaking the media, that way (keep the pot rim above the water level so the media doesn't float out).

If you add a soluble fertilizer to the water in the sink at the same time as you are soaking/watering your plants both jobs are done at the same time and you have no need for slow release fertilizer. When you are finished, rinse the sink.

Bill

[Ray]

The controlling factor of ALL controlled-release fertilizers is temperature.

There is a polymer coating on the prills. If you think of the polymer as a microscopic, net-like structure having an engineered thermal expansion, you can picture how increasing the temperature opens up the "net" and lets the nutrients out faster.

The release characteristics are determined by selection of the polymer expansion and the concentration of the prill contents..

There are at least a dozen different Osmocote formulations, each tailored to the application - turf in northern climates will need a fast release at lower temperatures, and will only need fertilizer for a matter of about 6 months. for example. A turf application in Florida will need a "tighter" polymeric coating so the release is moderate at much warmer temperatures, and will need to last a long time, as the growing season is essentially never-ending.

So, if you know what your average growing temperature is, and know what the release rate of the fertilizer is, you can determine how much to add, and how often to replenish the supply.

I know a lot of professional orchid growers who use both a controlled-release AND water soluble fertilizer, and swear by it, but I - like Bill above - prefer the control of water solubles. (I will disagree on his dunking suggestion though, as sharing the sink of fertilizer solution is the ideal way to share plant pathogens.)

I am trying worm tea for the past 2 weeks now...I hope it works for me. Wow...I read your profile and you killed several phals before you learned how to really care for orchids...I am your opposite; I found 2 dried up dying phals on the thash of a Hotel employees exit as I was waiting for my roomate to end his shift...I was more drawn to the porcelain pot container and the fancy arrangement plastic butterfly clips...I brought it home to the dismay of my roomate picking stuff from trash at his work...I put it in a stylish paperbag I also found in same trash so not to embarass him...the rest is history! I just watered it everyday when I woke up...I had such indiscrivable feeling when I saw it bloom on me the next couple of weeks. Im glad I didnt touch anything of the plant; thats when I learned that the spikes grow blossoms again when revived.

[koshki]

Anky, I presume your worm tea is made from worm castings...I've used some castings in my garden, but it is 1-0-0...all nitrogen, which promotes vegetative growth, but not root or bloom growth. I use it on my lettuce, parsley, basil, etc., but not for example on my tomatoes, because I want blossoms that turn into tomatoes, not green leaves. Nor do I use it on my orchids, for the same reason (except for the tomato part, lol!).

How lucky for you that you haven't killed any orchids yet! It's certainly a disappointment. In particular I was devastated to lose my first one, which was a beautiful gift when I was in the hospital. But when I first returned home, I had many more things on my mind than house plants, so it suffered.

It's also lucky that your found plants (I presume they were phals) rebloomed for you. I have one that pops out new buds from the scars on the old spike regularly, but I also have several that don't rebloom. I'm sure it was an instantly addicting feeling...I'd say it's safe to say that most of us are in that same boat!

[katrina]

Originally Posted by Anky

... I found 2 dried up dying phals on the thash of a Hotel employees exit as I was waiting for my roomate to end his shift...

I had such indiscrivable feeling when I saw it bloom on me the next couple of weeks. Im glad I didnt touch anything of the plant; thats when I learned that the spikes grow blossoms again when revived.

WOW! Lucky indeed. I've never known a dead spike to rebloom. Good for you!

I've also killed a few. I believe it's part of the learning process for most people. My motto...if you haven't killed a few then you haven't been growing orchids long enough. LOL!!