catts are driving me batty!

[tangers40]

alright, guess i'm gonna have to break down and ask the big doozy of a question....why won't my catts produce any sheaths?! lol usually the question would be "why won't they bloom?", but mine won't even put out a sheath.

so i've got almost all my blooming sized catts (about 12 total) currently potted in s/h and sitting under my T5's, giving them about 2000fc for 12 hours a day or so. anything more was giving them early symptoms of burning, so i backed it down to 2000fc shortly after i installed my lights this spring. all but one catt has put out at least one new growth, with most of them having several this summer (my Bsn. Maikai has put out so many growths that i lost count...but at least 10 or so since i got it in april). they get fertilizer approximately every other watering and get their s/h reservoirs filled when needed...different times for different plants. i've got a small fan running on them also. temp stays steady between 75 and 80 during the day, 70 or so at night. humidity is low (humidity trays don't do a thing here, tried them before) so i try to mist 'em once a day.

but nary a sheath. on any of them. i've got two that i know don't sheath, but there's been no blooming activity on them either. the rest are known sheathers. so what am i doing wrong? there are 2 things i can think of, and perhaps yall can tell me if either of these will keep a catt from sheathing/blooming: 1) not being allowed to dry fully between waterings due to their being planted in s/h culture or 2) the humidity being so low. or is it something else i'm missing?

honestly, it's driving me up the wall. there's got to be SOMETHING amiss here, hopefully it's something that's easy to fix. i love big floofy catts and would give anything to have mine actually FLOWER.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by tangers40

alright, guess i'm gonna have to break down and ask the big doozy of a question....why won't my catts produce any sheaths?!

Hmmm, not all catts produce sheaths. Some have new growth/leaves that open up to reveal buds, no sheaths.

Were they al in bloom when you bought them? In other words are oyu sure they are all flowering size?

How long have you had them? Some cattleyas only flower once a year. Have you had them long enough to go through at least one full growing cycle? Also a new orchid will often skip a flowering cycle as it settles in to your conditions.

[Brooke]

Increase the number of hours your lights are on. It is usually recommended in light culture to run them 16 on and 8 off hours. Most catts need 2500-3500 fc to bloom and with the lower fcs, you increase the duration of the lights.

If your catts are growing roots, pbulbs are plump then they are happy in sh. Your humidity wouldn't be an issue in s/h.

Brooke

[Stitz]

Originally Posted by tangers40

alright, guess i'm gonna have to break down and ask the big doozy of a question....why won't my catts produce any sheaths?! lol usually the question would be "why won't they bloom?", but mine won't even put out a sheath.

so i've got almost all my blooming sized catts (about 12 total) currently potted in s/h and sitting under my T5's, giving them about 2000fc for 12 hours a day or so. anything more was giving them early symptoms of burning, so i backed it down to 2000fc shortly after i installed my lights this spring.

My guess? You need much greater than 2000 fc to move Cattleya types to get started into the blooming mode. 4500-5000 fc works for me. Some people consider this excessive. A local orchid acquaintance with multiple greenhouses agrees with me.

--Stitz--

[plucker]

3500fc is the lower end of light levels to get them to bloom. But that is with natural light.
Some of the catts in the Jungles only flower once in 10 years because of that. The ones in the top of the trees flower every year!

Since you grow under lights, perhaps in the warmer weather, light them up for 14 hours or more, and when it gets cool, gradually wind the light down to under 12 hours. Kind of like simulating the natural environment.
The majority of orchid shows with catt winners are held in winter time.

Have a look at the color of the leaves, and if they are dark green then you might only ever be a grower in those conditions, not a bloomer.
Idealy the leaves should look in the middle of green to yellowish for good flowering.

As for the sheaths, some have them, and some dont. Some have both during the same blooming, so dont rely on that too much.

Another contributing factor of blooming can be the change in temp from day to night.
Certain varieties of catts - usually the smaller ones need much cooler temps than others to initiate flowering. A hybrid mix of temperate and cool growing varieties often overcomes that but not always.

[syndywindy]

I agree with the others. First are you sure they are blooming sized and second, more light. Mine right now are outside and they get a lot of sunlight during the day. Full sun early morning and late in the day and then dappled sunlight during the afternoon. Many of my catts that produce sheaths are forming them right now. And many have new growth so hopefully sheaths or spikes will soon follow.

[PocoGigio]

Originally Posted by tangers40

they get fertilizer approximately every other watering and get their s/h reservoirs filled when needed...different times for different plants.

My only 2 cents would be the s/h and fertilizer thing. s/h plants should be in 125 N ppm fertilized water at all times. IOW - water with fertilized water everytime - even to top off the reservoirs. Flush once a month to clean out. It's the basics of hydroponics. (PS- Ray has beaten that into my brain.)

You can do it!

[syndywindy]

Originally Posted by PocoGigio

My only 2 cents would be the s/h and fertilizer thing. s/h plants should be in 125 N ppm fertilized water at all times. IOW - water with fertilized water everytime - even to top off the reservoirs. Flush once a month to clean out. It's the basics of hydroponics. (PS- Ray has beaten that into my brain.)

You can do it!

I think the debate on fetilizer is going to offer up many opinions. I have many orchids growing in S/H and I don't keep them in fertilized water, nor do I top off with fertilized water. I use 1/4 strength every 4th watering and my orchids do just fine this way. I think you can over fertilize and I always error on the side of caution when it comes to it.

[FLBob]

I think that your catts aren't blooming because you're growing them in too low light. I grow my catts in nearly full sun, many of the commercial growers grow and flower their catts in very bright light. So if your artificial light was nearly burning them my guess is that it had more to do with heat than light. As you increase the light you my need to increase airflow to prevent over heating.

[tangers40]

hmmmmmm

the main issue with light that i ran into earlier this year is that most of my plants were taking on a purplish hue...i know that in most cases this indicates high light, but my plants were VERY purple. i asked about that here and the consensus was too much light, and to back it down a bit. so i did. raised my lights an inch or two and went down to 12 hour runtime. that stopped the purpling it seems, except on one plant that insists on remaining a dark shade of purple. the leaf color on the plants in question seems really good to me (minus the purple one)...none are dark colored. most are mid-level green to even slightly yellowish.

i know they're blooming sized because most have remnants of old sheaths on them. the only one i'm unsure of is the Bsn. Maikai, but it's busting out of a 4inch pot, so i would imagine it's old enough to bloom. i've had a couple of them more than a year so we've gone past a full yearly cycle for them.

i'd have a problem getting the nightly temp any lower than it is due to the fact they're in the same room as my fish. if i could put them somewhere else, i'd crack the window and close the door at night and let it cool down significantly. but with tropical fish in the room, that's not an option.

*sigh* maybe i'm just getting ahead of myself, but the reason i'm worrying about this now is that i know lots of catts will set sheaths this time of year (as syndy mentioned) and will either bloom this winter or next spring. because mine are all setting new growths right now WITHOUT said sheaths or buds, i know i won't be getting blooms anytime soon. i want to remedy my issue(s) as soon as i can so that i'll get blooms as soon as i can.

the consensus seems to be more light, so i'll play around with my lights and my setup and see what i can do. i'm hesitant to move the lights closer, so i'll move the timers up to give a longer runtime and see what happens.

[kmarch]

How many hours did you have the lights set before you reduced it to 12? When I was using flourescent lights I always tried to give them about 16 hours.

[plucker]

Another thing with lights is that certain types offer different spectrums of light.
Sunlight offers the best mix of blue and red spectrum.
Both are needed, but differing amounts are needed at different stages of growth and flowering.
Cant remeber which way it is but one promotes growth and one promotes flowering.