My observations with D. nobile/hybrids

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

I have been following the discusions about cooling them, or drying them, or both. I have concluded that cooling is prinary, and drying should only be to water a 'little' less frequently. I came to this conclusion based on the nobile I got at a Show this spring. It had leaves on the older growth. This was a 2 for $7 bareroot thing that was too small to bloom, but they had plenty of nobiles in their booth that were in bloom, so I will assume they knew what they were doing. I started drying the plant up a month and a half ago (too early) and it immediately started to drop leaves, old growth and newest. Alarmed, I went back to the webb, and figured this might not be the thing to do. Started watering again, but kept cool. A month and a half later, the plant is still being cooled AND watered, but less frequently, and a batch of bumps are forming. It will be interesting to see if these are flowers or kiekis. Cynthia:

[Kev]

Cynthia

I’m not sure what to do with these since the suggestions I received on another forum do conflict with the info on the web and the advice I received from the grower where I purchased one of my plants. My Spring Dream ‘Apollon’ was a large keiki I received in a trade last spring. I was told this would take a few years to bloom. Following the advice I was given on the forum, I did cool this one and drastically reduce watering. The canes are now almost bare, but two of them have bumps along the entire length. The plant is also starting a new growth. When I Google this plant, the pictures I see show plants with fully leafed canes all in flower. I have a feeling I shouldn’t have reduced watering as much as I did. .

The other plant Ise ‘Yayoi’ x Princess ‘Asai’ dropped a few leaves, but not that many. On the advice of the grower who said this plant does not need a cool down to bloom, I did not give it this treatment, but did reduce watering somewhat. It is also producing a new growth and bumps are starting to appear on both the old leafless canes and the fully leafed ones. Everyone seems to agree that fertilizer at this time is not a good thing and may influence whether or not the bumps develop into keikis or buds.

I have a feeling it may take a couple of years to figure out how to grow these, but I’m sure the time spend will be well worth it. These are beautiful plants.

Kevin

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

I suspect there is going to be a lot of variation in the hybrids, as they had to cross with something other than nobile, or it wouldn't be a hybrid, and who knows what they are using to make hybrids. Different breeders may be using different approaches to making hybrids. If your hybrid is producing a new growth that is in no way close to maturity, I would water it fairly well. The one thing I seem to see as a common thread in my recent reading is that most, or all, Dens need a lot of water while growing. Dormancy and growth are exclusive. I have a few Den species that want a lot of water all the time and, I believe, have continuous growth (from reading, too early to tell from experience), and maybe one of these are in the parentage of your hybrid. Lets come back to this thread, if we can find it, when our plants either bloom or are clearly producing keikis. Cynthia

[Gin]

Confusing is right , here are 2 pictures of ones I have, lindleyi and the pierardii, , the info says to not water I do , but I cool them down and no Fert.
I have bloomed the pierardii with out a cool down and it did bloom with the leaves , I thought it was prettier with them .
The superbum (renamed awhile back ) I do reduce the water on it quite a bit , so it will drop leaves , also the Nestor a cross of superbum and parishii .
If a pierardii does not have a lot of canes then I grow it on , it will bloom when small if ready to with leaves .
The Yamamotos are another can of worms , no cool down and water . I have the Spring dream and do nothing special for it . Sorry if I added to the confusion . Gin

[Hatshepsut]

Please explain how one "cools down" a dendrobrium. Sorry to ask such a basic question

Hatshepsut

[Gin]

It depends on where you live , if you are in a state that gets very cold weather , all you can do is find as cool a spot that you can .
I have mine on an enclosed porch , with one of the oil filled heaters that will keep it from freezing .
Before the porch I had them in the coolest spot in the greenhouse . Before that in an unused room in the house with supplemental light and the door closed . I let them go down to approx. 45/ 50 on the porch .
If you are in a warmer winter state like Fl. I don't know ! Gin

[Kev]

Here's a partial update. My Ise 'Yayoi' x Princess 'Asai' mentioned above does have real buds, not keikis. At least some of them are buds. While looking over the plant, I found a couple near the top of one cane that are very full and showing color already. It's knid of interesting how some of these are so far along and others just bumps. I would assume other canes not showing anything yet could eventually bloom.

Kev

[Gin]

I have kind of the same thing with mine . But the species not till spring , Don't forget a picture when they open G

[Ladybug]

Mind if I join in here? I've got a Yamamoto type Den. Santa Claus (hybrid?)
, a Den.senile, and Yamamoto? Den. Sea Mary 'Snow King' hybrid.

I didn't change anything for these...not water, light or temp or fert...yet.

Den. Santa Claus put out two little buds and then they stopped growing while the new growth continues to grow. Haven't a clue why the buds stopped?

The Den. senile is still in warm, moist conditions (portable gh tent) and lost ALL it's leaves! Do I dry it out or not...cool it down or not??? Again, I'm clueless.

The Den. Sea Mary bloomed beautifully with not one leaf missing! Again, no change in it's environment or culture. Obviously, I'll keep this going.

I'd love to hear what you guys think.

Maggie

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Temp outside went to 21F last night and coldframe went to 38F. With the Dendrobium book by Baker, and all the freebie Baker Culture Sheets, it looks like my cold frame is going to be overfilled come December.

Hi Ladybug. I checked Baker's book for Dendrobium senile, and it looks like you should be cooling senile off about now. The book shows averages for senile, in Dec., Jan, and Feb, going to 49F, 45F, and 51F. Then back up to 58F in March. He says it should dry out pretty good during this time, but not stay dry for extended periods, and an occasional misting is OK.

I have a small plant of Sea Mary. Last year it lost most of its leaves due to mildew, so I started its rest early. I dried it up completely, and about 3 or 4 weeks later I got buds/flowers. This year I am cooling it in the coldframe (starting Nov.), but did not dry it up, just watered less often. I have something started on the plant, and they are very pointy at this point. Don't know if this will be buds or keikis. But I sure am going to know next year if I should water or not, depending on the outcome. The bumps on my nobile are very spherical.

Hatshetsut, some people use a garage with a window in it for cooling. People in Florida are just out of luck with cool requirement Dens and Cymbidiums. The people down in Phoenix will have nothing to do with standard Cymbidiums because, while they grow fine, they will not bloom, or so they tell me. Cynthia

[Ladybug]

Here's a pic of my Den. Sea Mary 'Snow King' which I'm sure is a Yamamoto type den. It bloomed without a cool down or reduced waterings. I thought it did really well...16 blooms at one time. It did bloom about 2 months prev. to this and had 3 blooms on this same cane. It seemed to take a short breather (not of my doing)and put out 16 more!

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Wow, i wonder if there was a label mix-up with my plant.
http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/image/30701843/large
You will note that mine has a slight pink blush on it. The label is one of those preprinted jobbies with copy right warning for unauthorized reproduction of the plant. Did yours have any color at all? Cynthia

[Ladybug]

Cynthia, I went back to look at mine after seeing your pic (very nice, btw!) and it does have a slight tinge of the blush on some of the petal edges. I suppose it could be one of the variables in culture, like light? Mine was in filtered sunlight in a south window.

I also pulled the label out....duh...there it is...Yamamoto Orchids, prop. prohibited!

I'm going to move my Den. senile to a cooler, brighter location (if I can find one) for winter since it's lost all of it's leaves.

Maggie

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Happy to hear I probably have the right tag. Greenhouse conditions, probably very bright, especially in the coldframe where it was when it set the blooms last year. Cynthia

[Ladybug]

Cynthia, I'm thinking that it could also be the age of the blooms. I re-examined some close ups of the blooms the day after they opened and there's NO blush on the edges of the petals. Mine opened on Nov 11 and I think the color showed up in the last day or two.

FWIW

Maggie

[jerrymeola]

Cynthia
Your belief is not quite right

"I suspect there is going to be a lot of variation in the hybrids, as they had to cross with something other than nobile, or it wouldn't be a hybrid,"

A hydrid is a cross of two plants. They can be of the same family and type. You still have a hybrid if you cross two Nobile types. They also can be different as you mentioned. Usually the hybridization is to introduce characteristics into the cross that will enhance our pleasure.

Gin
It is not hard to cool down plants in SW Florida. It is getting "cold" right now down t the 50s and by january we will have some night temperatures in the low 30s (admittedly for only a couple of hours each night.) Growing outdorrs it is easier for me to cool down than a northener growing inside.

There are many interesting hybrids. Den Dream 'Ace' is a nobile type that does NOT need to cool down and does NOT need a rest. It blooms with hundreds of maroon color flowers TWICE a year. Now that is hybridizing with three very desirable traits. I have several 6 inch baskets hanging outside just now to test if they life up to their reputation. I will keep you updated. By the way the canes are all full of leaves they have never been dropping leaves.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Jerry, I am a species collector. I am not careless with my words. When I say nobile, I mean D. nobile, the species. And if you cross D. nobile, the species, with another, D. nobile, the species, you get D, noblie, the species, not a hybrid. So I am exactly correct. As a moderator, you have a responsibility to be certain of your info before telling someone they are wrong, or even just not quite correct.

As far as hybrids go, I would guess that most of the hybridizing with D. nobile, the species, is with other Dens that require no rest, specifically to make the result easier to grow. Cynthia

[Gin]

Cynthia I was wondering if the cooler Temps. you provided created more color . I know some plants when white will produce a pink cast . I think it was relating to Christmas cactus . Gin

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

I don't think so in this case. The plant had lost all its leaves to mildew, so I dried it up early, before the weather turned cold, maybe August or September. The exif date is wrong. I Know it bloomed last year, shortly after I dried it