Onc. Twinkle 'Little Star' (frozen)

[Olive Cook]

So my Twinkle arrived today...
The seller said he would include a heat pack for an added charge, he never billed us and DIDN'T include the heat pack. On top of that, even though the box was clearly marked more than once that it was a live plant and to avoid extreme temps, the mail man put it in my mail box; didn't knock to let me know it was out there. (We had snow/freezing rain all day)
Acording to the shipping info, it has sat out there since 10am...
The bark was so cold it hurt my fingers while getting it out of the roots. The blooms were wet and cold... it literally made me sick to my stomach. Now, it was well packed in paper and some quilt batting around the leaves and spikes, but it really needed the heat pack. I told the seller the type of weather we were expecting!

Here are the pics I was able to get before my camera died completely, I'll have a few more once my batteries get here.

[katsrevenge]

Oh.... that is just horrible. Will he replace/refund if it dies?

[maiseymoo]

I hope he offers a replacement, that is a shame.

[syndywindy]

Thats really a shame, hopefully he will replace it. I tend not to order during the winter months for that very reason. Even with heat packs depending on how the seller sends a plant, heat packs only last so long. So unless it's sent express where it will get to you in 2-3 days, it's a risk. Most vendors have a disclaimer telling of the risks of sending during winter, so its really buyer beware.

[dounoharm]

it looks like it will make it...the leaves are damaged and of course the blossoms will die, but the psuedobulbs look strong....trim the damaged leaves and pot it up, i think it will be ok in a few months....did you get it off ebay? if you dont pay for the heat pack when you pay for the plant they wont put one in....so sorry....

[Olive Cook]

We wrote to him, literally MINUTES after buying it, and he wrote back and said he'd put one in and bill us seperate. He also didn't give the option to add the heat pack AT checkout, my Mom looked.
It was shipped in 2 days, I was watching for it to avoid this; the mail man normally puts it just on the porch...
The listing said he would not be responsible for frozen plants, however since it was HIS goof up and not ours he SHOULD replace it in all fairness. I have no doubt that if the heat pack had been in there it would have been fine.

[Irene]

The postman put a package labled (something along the lines of) "do not expose to extreme temperatures" "perishable" "orchid" into your mailbox and left it there. I think he may have caused the most damage.

[Olive Cook]

Yes, I want to kick the mail man in the shin! (unfortunately, I'm not a child so I couldn't get away with it! )
The box was labled both in hand written and a neon green sticker that it was a live plant. However, since it only took 1 1/2 days to get here once he shipped it, the 72 hour heat pack he was supposed to add would have saved it I'm pretty sure

[mytwogirls]

Oh Olive, that is too bad!!! I am sorry. I think it looks good considering the hypothermia it suffered! I would STILL call the post office and complain AND let the seller know what happened. Good luck!

[Olive Cook]

Complaining to the post office wouldn't do any good unfortunately, since we live on the "poor" side of town, they don't care

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by dounoharm

it looks like it will make it...the leaves are damaged and of course the blossoms will die, but the psuedobulbs look strong....trim the damaged leaves and pot it up, i think it will be ok in a few months.....

I know it's heartbreaking even to look at an orchid just wantonly and carelessly damaged, Olive. And especially when you saved for it and chose it carefully from about a thousand others you would also have liked.

But honestly, I think dounoharm is right. The tips of the leaves are damaged, and the blossoms, but the rest looks ok-- the bottom of the leaves and the pbs look perfectly normal. It actually looks pretty good considering what it's been thru. I guess it's another example of how tufff orchids are. I think it helped that it was a big healthy plant with lots of pbs.

I think when you can stand to look at him without spitting, you should just talk to the mailman in a friendly way and tell him you appreciate it when he gives a little extra care to the orchids that come. That might help with future orders. (Don't complain at him. That just launches all the excuses. It works better when you attribute undeserved goodness to someone -- most people with a good conscience try to live up to the attribution).

As for complaining to the PO, if this postman is going to be delivering more orchids to you, I'm not sure I would do that. He'll know who it was -- how many orchids do you think he delivers in a month?

[Olive Cook]

No,no. I wasn't going to complain to the PO. I had actually thought about putting nortes on my mailbox and door that I was expecting live orchids and to knock loudly... then got caught up with my son and spaced it.
We have written to the seller, but have yet to hear anything back from him...
I'll most likely ot buy from him again, and in the future when I'm expecting a shipment I'll put up the notes, and HOPE the mail man pays attention

[Olive Cook]

The clearly marked box:

TOP:

SIDE 1:



And a couple potted up trying to be pretty:

[Olive Cook]

The good news is, the seller finally wrote back and gave us a full refund! So I'm going to buy another I think, from a DIFFERENT seller

[psyc1210]

If you don't mind letting us know...what seller did you buy from?

[maiseymoo]

Glad that you got a refund! I have understand the issues with the postman, I live on the top floor of an apartment block and I am sure the postman only comes up once week as every thursday my postbox is full and nothing for the rest of the week
Anyhow, rant about my postman over, are you going to order the same orchid again for go for something else?

[Olive Cook]

I've been wanting a Twinkle since I knew they existed! Right now there are two I'm looking at, another 'Little Star' and a 'Pinkie'... I'm unsure if the name is correct on the 'Pinkie', but it says the blooms turn from pink to white as they age, and it sounds lovely.
So any of you Ebay buyers: PLEASE don't buy the 'Pinky', it's the only one, and I'm leaning more towards it


P.S. [name edited out by Katrina] I guess he sent the bill for the heat pack to my mom's email, and not on ebay; so he thought she wasn't going to pay for it and didn't put it in. I'm glad he at least gave us a full refund, but I still want to cry when I look at my poor Twinkle

Edit by Katrina: Olive I have edited out the name of the seller. It was just brought to my attention that naming is not permitted when done in this manner. If someone wishes to know the seller they can contact you privately via PM. Thank you.

[rodbender]

If you are stillooking for a Twinkle check jerry's site he had quite a few of them and his prices were very reasonable
So sorry to see your postman cant read hopefully he will take better care for ya next time

[katrina]

Sorry about your Twinkle Olive...what a shame. I'm w/Synday...I do not order plants during the winter months for this very reason. It's just not worth the risk. Even under the best of circumstances, plants can be set back by exposure to cold temps. IMO, heat packs are not sufficient when temps plummet. Too many things can go wrong.

BTW -- I don't think it's fair to blame the seller for this situation. He didn't include a heat pack because the invoice wasn't paid...the mailman didn't follow the instructions on the pkg...and you didn't check your mailbox. Sounds to me like a lot of things occurred that were out of his control and yet he's still offering a full refund. IMO, he has done an admirable job w/customer service and I wouldn't hesitate to purchase from a vendor who responds in this manner.

[Julez]

Hi Olive,

How sad and disappointed you must be. It is good that the seller gave you a refund and I hope the seller is going to lodge a complaint with the carrier.

Postal Service: It should not matter what side of the track you are from, you have entered into an agreement and paid for that service and it failed. When you have calmed down and you can keep a very cool head, you should call your local postal/delivery office and explain what has happened giving them all the facts on how it was packaged etc. It may not have been your regular delivery person and they may be new to the job. They may have believed they were doing the right thing by leaving it in the box, then again, he may be a nasty person and he does it all the time but if no one complains then nothing can be done to fix it.

I always know when there is a new parcel contractor/ or postman and I have to educate them on how to do the job right!.

Okay I will get down off my soapbox now.

[Olive Cook]

A lot of the blame goes on the mail man, since they have NEVER put the boxes in the mail box before, and we really don't get mail.
Now, the seller said one thing and did another, it is good that he did his best to fix the issue, but I just choose not to go through him again...

[Dendian]

I am so sorry that your plant got frozen. You lost the flowers, but the plant appears to be fine and will grow and bloom again if taken care of properly.

However, in all fairness, it sounds like several errors were made, and I think you are blaming the seller unduly.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but your mom bought the plant for you on ebay. After the auction closed (not before), you contacted the seller and asked him to include the heat pack (which is an extra charge). He sent the bill to your mom's email, which she didn't pay. I know that sellers cannot send invoices through ebay for things not purchased through ebay (like heat packs) unless they send an invoice for items purchased and include any additional charges in the "seller charges" section. If you had requested an invoice and he didn't include the charge for the heat pack, then it would have been his error. He did not include the heat pack and sent the plant to you. This is his only error that I can see, he didn't attempt to contact you again before shipping without the heat pack.

You watched for the mail because the weather was bad, but somehow forgot to leave a note about expecting a live plant, and your mail carrier put your mail in the mailbox, which you didn't check until later that day. Even if he had included a heat pack, being left in a frozen mailbox for 2 hours might have harmed the flowers. I have found it best to leave a note in the mailbox for the carrier. I have had plants mis-delivered, lost, and found, forgotten, put in odd places where I wasn't expecting them - all because I didn't alert the delivery person that I was expecting live plants (and yes, the boxes were marked "perishable" "live plants" etc... but the mail carriers are usually rushed to do a job in a specific time and sometimes don't register what's on the boxes). I have learned it is my responsibility to make sure I keep track of plant orders, and make sure I notify the delivery person, so we are all in the loop.

I'm definately not a seller, but I probably would not have refunded you for that plant. I think they went beyond what was called for in an effort to give good customer service. The fact that the plant is still alive after what it went through is a miracle. Be grateful!

In the future, if you intend on purchasing any more plants in the wintertime, make sure you include in your payment when you pay (that is the only way, unless you wait for an invoice from the seller) the extra amount for a heat pack or two. Even then, as Katrina says, a heat pack will not always protect the plant. For your sake, and to avoid more dissappointment, I think it would be best for you to wait until the weather is more temperate in your area before purchasing more mail-order plants.

[syndywindy]

It's hard to lay blame on any one thing. Again I have to say you buy at your own risk during winter.Even purchasing a heat pack as I said earlier is not going to guarentee a safe arrival. Every precaution can be taken, but as the saying goes, S--T happens.

[tangers40]

...and this is exactly why i'm waiting till spring or even summer to order all the plants i want. so many things can go wrong when mailing things in the winter. this past october, we had a huge nasty COLD snowstorm. at the same time, my mom had sent me a small box with some halloween candy in it. the box made it to me ok, but the parcel box it was put into froze shut. i had to wait until the next day to get my box. needless to say, everything in it was frozen solid. can you imagine if those were plants in there? yep.

[syndywindy]

I agree. In all probability, the orchid you want today is going to be there in a couple months when the weather warms up enough to make it safe. I know it can be hard to control the urge and I know as I look at ebay all the time. It's just not worth the aggravation and disappointment.

[Laura81]

I recognize the seller from the photos that you took of the packaging materials, and I have purchased several plants from him. All have been in great condition when they arrived, shipped quickly, packed well, and exactly according to the description given in the auction. Of course, I would still never buy orchids to be shipped through the Midwest in the middle of winter, even with a heat pack. Your mailman made the main error, but you still should have been checking the mailbox throughout the day.

Please do not let this one experience (which, IMO, was NOT the seller's fault) turn you off from ordering again. I agree with everyone else that giving you a refund went above and beyond what good customer service should be. And honestly, had it come from a different seller, how exactly would the situation have turned out any differently?

[Olive Cook]

The situation would have been NO different if it had been a different seller.
I'm not trashing the seller, I'm sure that other people have been very pleased working with him. I was asked who the seller was, otherwise I would not have named him. To be honest, I'm a little offended by some of the responses to this thread; I feel like a few of you are getting on my case because I'm choosing not to buy from him again. But it IS my choice, and I shouldn't be judged (or made to feel that way) for it.
I restarted my collection this past November, so ALL of the orchids I've ordered online were shipped during cold weather, and this is the only one to suffer.

[syndywindy]

Sorry if you are offended. I don't think the intent was to offend you. But when you open up a thread, people respond and give opinions that may be contrary to what you think. I don't think anyone is judging you on what you did and how you are choosing to handle the situation.If you feel that way, thats your issue. To each their own, but just keep in mind when you put up a post as you did, the likelyhood of differing thoughts are bound to arise. I think you need to take a moment to see people are trying to help you for the future, not upset you.

[mytwogirls]

Hey hon! Glad you got the refund. I hope your weekend is going better!!!!!

[Brooke]

Olive the problem is you put the vendors name on the 'net and said you won't buy from him again when he has gone out of his way to satisfy you. Most people reading this will only remember something negative about this seller at a later date. They won't remember all the details, just something negative.

I'm sorry if you were offended by the advice given to you but people were trying to help. It would be nice if you would edit out the seller's name since he corrected a problem that really wasn't his fault.

Brooke

[Dendian]

Olive, I too am sorry if you felt my post was to offend you.

I agree, it is entirely your choice as to whom you purchase from. I am not trying to get you to purchase from anybody - sort of the opposite, as long as the weather is bad...

I was trying to help you realize that putting somebody's name on the web and saying you won't buy from them because of a cumulation of errors is unfair, and that the major responsibility of getting a plant safely is yours.

You are very lucky that this was the only problem you had, if all your purchases were this winter.

Oh, just to let you know, the Twinkle Pinky that you like? That vendor has them year 'round, so you can get one when the weather gets better. I got mine from him in July last year.

[Olive Cook]

I was unaware that naming was not allowed, but like I said I hadn't planned on naming him until I was asked.
My mom bought the 'Pinkie' this morning, so I'm going to watch the web to see when it is sent and leave notes for my mailman

[phalaephila]

Something I have done when expecting an orchid delivery in cold weather is to put a note in/on the mailbox, asking the delivery person to put the box in the cooler by the door. I put bottles of warm water in the cooler so there is a cozy place for the package until I am able to bring it into the house.

[Tarad]

I have ordered orchids in the dead of winter and had no fatalities. I have gone to my post office and talked directly witih all postal deliverers. IF I am not home they all know to take it next door to a neighbor. Most of hte time I address it to a neighbor that is home all the time (with their permission of course). Order when you will be home when it arrives is the best thing of course priority. The cooler idea works as I use that too summer and winter. I use to order orchids alot, so I got to know everyone delivering. They were are very nice to take care of my fragile plants. SOunds like it was more the mail person, but no heat packs was not good. You were lucky they refunded quickly and rectified the mistake. That does not always happen.

[patticake]

I have a post office box, and my post office is a nice facility. Plants that I order this time of year are usually ok, but not always. Sometimes they can get damaged sitting in a truck overnight or what ever. I try to not order except in spring and early fall now. Summer deliveries can cook the plants as badly as being frozen! Good luck on the frozen chid, and with the new one! My first Twinkle arrived frozen last year. It was from a friend, and took a long time to arrive. (we figured it stopped by way of the arctic to have a few along the way! ) The second one arrived a few months later when it was warmer, and was beautiful! (red) I just won one yesterday at a raffle at my OS meeting(white) so now they have each other to keep company! It all works out...

[jerrymeola]

I have seen a lot of fear in shipping in winter and a lot of "need to use a heat pack'.

I commented on another forum that I think heat packs are ineffective when used in a closed package and are only a prophylactic for the buyer. Heat packs are a chemical reaction with oxygen and there should be no movement of oxygen into the package causing them to stop working. That is why they are warm when you take them out and expose them to the air. A tightly sealed box uses the air as the insulation.

I have used thousands of heat packs over the years when requested on other items but never bothered on orchids. It is profitable since the markup on heat packs is over 100%.

I have been shipping twinkles all over the country this winter and not lost a single one of over 600.

A customer saw my other post about not needing heat packs and ordered 6 flowering plants the week it was in the 20s in Florida and bitterly cold in Maine. The post office two day mail took 4 days and every bud was still perfect without heat packs.

I bring in over $1000 in flowering orchids a week regardless of temperature and never have cold damage and commercial shippers never use heat packs.

[orchidaddict789]

It looks like the leaves and bulbs still have some hope--hopefully next spring it'll put out more new growths.

I normally don't have the guts to order during the winter but this year I did. The mailman often forgets to knock on my door, and one package sat outside in 34 deg weather for 30 minutes. Fortunately the plant was packaged so well that it wasn't hurt. Next time, to be safe, you can sit by the window to watch the doorstep for the whole day (something an orchid addict like me would do), get a neighbor to pick it up for you, or have your post office hold it at a local center.

[Olive Cook]

lo, my neighbors would be sure to kill it, we HATE each other

[koshki]

Originally Posted by Olive Cook

I was unaware that naming was not allowed, but like I said I hadn't planned on naming him until I was asked.

I had a problem with an eBay vendor recently, and although asked, in private via PM, I declined to name the vendor. Period. Once the issue was resolved, I also let that person know that my problem was resolved to my satisfaction. Still, I did not name the vendor. Period.

Think about it...if you had a business, and through no fault of your own, your product was damaged, and you provided a full refund, would you think it fair that your name was still trashed in public?

Bottom line: you got a plant for free. Be nice.

[Olive Cook]

Originally Posted by koshki

I had a problem with an eBay vendor recently, and although asked, in private via PM, I declined to name the vendor. Period. Once the issue was resolved, I also let that person know that my problem was resolved to my satisfaction. Still, I did not name the vendor. Period.

Think about it...if you had a business, and through no fault of your own, your product was damaged, and you provided a full refund, would you think it fair that your name was still trashed in public?

Bottom line: you got a plant for free. Be nice.

Your post was the last straw for this thread. I've said more than once that I was NOT "Trashing" the seller. This as just my experience with him and I chose not to buy from him with or without a refund. Again, MY CHOICE. I have also said that I felt offended by other posts in this thread that were even less directed towards me in a negative manner.

I am more than a little tempted to find another forum, there is absolutely NO reason for anyone to be treating ME this way when I have done nothing but be as nice and helpful as I possibly can to everyone else.

I'm going to see if this thread can be majorly edited and or removed, I'm afraid that it has gone beyond being helpful to just plain nasty.

[koshki]

Olive, it is not my intention to hurt your feelings. Rather, I felt I had something pertinent to share with not only you, but all the others reading this post. Keep in mind that there are many people who have read this, but have not participated in the discussion directly.

I don't think anyone has been nasty. But they have been direct.

[mehitabel]

I personally have a lot of empathy for small business people-- they work excruciatingly hard, most of them work long hours, and most of them aren't getting rich on it. This fellow gave a full replacement for a plant that was damaged by somebody else's carelessness, not his own. That probably cost him the profit on ten other plants he sold, so it wasn't a small loss to him. Furthermore, the plant wasn't destroyed, so the buyer kept the plant and got a full refund.

Olive, I've read all the posts, and I don't feel anyone was trying to criticize you or to say you don't have the choice to buy or not buy from this man again. Obviously, that's your choice.

But it seems to me the posters you are so angry at were merely trying to restore some balance to the discussion. I certainly believe that it is only fair to acknowledge that the seller went out of his way to see you had no loss from the transaction (and you didn't; you had a gain from it). That he did have a loss from it (and he did). And that in no way was it his fault that the plant spent the afternoon in a frigid mailbox.

So he endured a considerable loss, tho he deserved no blame. I was actually grateful to the people who first brought that up, and to Katrina for editing his name from the thread. I don't know him, and I never buy from eBay anyway, but fair is fair. For me, seeing something like this happen to a vendor is like watching someone get beaten up-- I actually feel sick about it. This is his livelihood and his reputation that's being discussed and possibly ruined.

I'm sorry you've chosen to see statements that the seller tried his best to do right as an attack on you.

[fred]

when I have finished my post this thread will be closed

Olive what you need to do is just calm down a little saying that you are tempted to find another forum because of the answers you have received is not fair to orchidgeeks.com me or my Staff honestly you could have gone to a staff member sooner with the issue

I think the forum and the 'geeks' have a lot to offer you with advice and help you might not agree with me right now but the 'geeks' are a very caring bunch.

in all fairness to you Olive you have stated that you have had a good outcome with the seller and that you were happy with the out come.

some posts are a little to direct I am sure none of the 'geeks' who have replied to your original post meant any harm to you or to hurt your feelings

I am sorry that you feelings are hurt and I do apologize for that

so no more feeling are going to get hurt this thread will now be closed