Can you trim healthy Phal roots to fit pot when repotting?

[Iggy75]

Hello everyone. I have a question. I just bought another Phal (my collection is starting to get rather large!) and took it out of its pot getting it ready to repot. I have never seen so many healthy roots on a grocery store Phal! This thing was in serious need of repotting and roots were wound so tightly around the old moss it took me forever to get it all out. Here is my problem. I don't have a pot that is long enough to hold all of the roots after unraveling them (there were no dead ones btw). Some of them are very long. Is it ok to trim them to fit into a shorter pot? It just seems wrong to me to cut healthy roots, but thought I would ask the experts!

[Irene]

Hmmm...

Can you wrap the roots around and cram them in? Can you let it go bare root until you can get to the store to get a better fitting pot?

[orchidlover55]

I don't know what the other geeks is going to say but I don't do that. I have never cut healthy roots before. I don't think it would hurt it if you don't cut but a few. If you get a pot that is two inches wider than the one you had it should fit. There will be other opinions on what to do. That is wonderful that the roots are in that good of a shape.

[Iggy75]

The pot that it was previously in was much taller and thinner than the ones I have. I usually pot my phals in clay orchid pots with moss, and the pots I have on hand are the shorter and wider type. I could try and wrap the roots into a ball I suppose, but they don't seem like they want to bend without breaking. I guess this situation is new to me, usually the phals that I buy from the store never have this many healthy roots, it seems like I have to down size the pot most of the time!

[orchidlover55]

You can soak the for about ten to fifteen minutes and they will go almost limp. I do that then in the very middle I put some mixture and hold the roots around the mixture and then put my hand on the bottom and lift the roots up to make a ball before I sit it into the pot. Then I sit it in the pot and put the mixture around the ball. It is hard to explain but maybe someone can help me explain this a little better.

[hera]

I'd try to preserve as many roots as possible. If you cut them you will set the plant back in its growth and you may skip a year of blooming. Those roots are supporting the plant at the size that it is and it will struggle to recoupe what you trim.... that being said, you can trim healthy roots. You should let the plant go about 7-10 days before watering it again to let the roots seal and heal a little. My suggestion is leave the roots be and find a pot that you can cram them into. Soaking will make them bendable and form them into a ball and stuff. I made the mistake of over potting some of mine that had huge roots and that can also cause problems with rot. If you break a few, just leave them on. Phal roots will branch where they have been broken. Just follow the not watering for 7-10 to let them heal.

[mehitabel]

I'd say it depends on what the long roots are like. Sometimes there are old, long, skinny, dangly roots, not perfect and with no noticeable growing tips. No harm in shortening these, I'd say. That's especially true if there are some short, fatter, higher quality roots wuth good growing tips.

As several people mentioned, take care not to overcut. Leave plenty of roots. But IMO, it's better to cut the roots to fit the plant into a shorter pot than to leave them long and need to overpot to fit them in lengthwise. You are shortening them, not removing them.

If you dip the cut ends in root hormone powder or a rooting gel, they will branch where the cut was.

If the existing roots are primo, with growing tips, I would be less inclined to shorten, and would try to soften them so I could wind them around the bottom of the pot.

So I guess it depends on the quality of the roots you're cutting.

Good luck.

[Iggy75]

Thanks to everyone for their advice. mehitabel, the point you made about not over potting just to fit lengthwise is exactly what I am worried about. It seems if I keep going up in pot size to accommodate the length of the roots then I will definitely be over potting. Perhaps I should just try to soak the roots and reform the root ball.

[koshki]

You might also consider using a larger pot, but filling it in (particularly in the middle) with something like styrofoam peanuts. I save plastic foam packing material and cut it into chunks to fill in.

Not only do they not decay, I think I'm helping the environment by repurposing them! (I got the idea from FlBob who collects plastic wine corks, as do I! )

[Irene]

Originally Posted by koshki

You might also consider using a larger pot, but filling it in (particularly in the middle) with something like styrofoam peanuts. I save plastic foam packing material and cut it into chunks to fill in.

Not only do they not decay, I think I'm helping the environment by repurposing them! (I got the idea from FlBob who collects plastic wine corks, as do I! )

That's what I do when I have to overpot. Chunks of styrofoam to take up space.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Iggy75

Is it ok to trim them to fit into a shorter pot? It just seems wrong to me to cut healthy roots, but thought I would ask the experts!

It would not be ok to cut healthy roots. If you did the whole root would eventually die. This could be dertimental to the plant depending on how many were cut.

You'll often here me and others here say, select the smallest pot that can comfortably accommodate the roots, sometimes the smallest pot is pretty good sized.

[mayres]

I also vote for the "use styrofoam peanuts" to fill any large spaces in a slightly oversize pot. Works great and your roots will actually grow right through them eventually. You don't want any large volume of media with no roots - leaving the media to stagnate. I actually put them in the bottom of most of my pots regardless - it provides some extra aeration and also prevents water from wicking up into the media if I accidentally water a little too much in my rock filled trays.

[Undergrounder]

I regularly cut aerial roots in order to induce them to fork and re-enter the media, since in Phalaenopsis at least, roots that lose their tips tend to form multiple growth points and forking root systems behind the cut point. They tend to fork even more when they're wet.

I have an experiment going now where i cut the healthy tips off every root of half a dozen clones from flask and left the others as they were... i matched the plants for their total fresh weight and approximate root length and number to form two equal groups.

So far i haven't noticed any significant difference between both 'cut root' and 'control' groups, (although one plant from each of the two groups died). But the plants that i cut haven't suffered one bit.

So while i wouldn't cut a significant number of roots off because you don't want to lose too much root mass, i wouldn't be concerned about trimming a few. But if you need to squeeze the plant into a new pot anyway then it wouldn't have much room to grow so i'd just get a bigger pot.

[maiseymoo]

I have never cut any roots off, I have done what others have suggested when repotting soak the roots and then form into loose ball shape to fit the pot, this can be quite tricky and you do need a gently touch!

[mytwogirls]

I would not cut healthy roots either. Go with your gut instinct and buy a bigger pot. Your investment will be a good one.

[11Orchid126]

You might also consider the plastic pots from the deli. You can poke holes in the bottom of these and sometimes they're just the right size. They work just as well as most other pots. Otherwise, go the way everyone suggests, packing peanuts in the center. You can hold the plant between your fingers, turn it upside down, stuff the peanuts in the center. Slip a piece of wax paper or plastic wrap over them, then turn the plant right side up into the pot. Gradually slip the wrap out.

[amersault]

i honestly don't cut roots unless they're rotting off. that's the only time scissors are in order. i suggest perhaps moving to a bigger-sized pot, as trimming an otherwise healthy root system could potentially do more harm than good.

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by Undergrounder

I regularly cut aerial roots in order to induce them to fork and re-enter the media, since in Phalaenopsis at least, roots that lose their tips tend to form multiple growth points and forking root systems behind the cut point. ...

I've noticed the same thing-- that if you cut a root and dip it in root powder (or cover with rooting gel) to keep decay out, the roots will fork.

Originally Posted by Undergrounder

I have an experiment going now where i cut the healthy tips off every root of half a dozen clones from flask and left the others as they were... i matched the plants for their total fresh weight and approximate root length and number to form two equal groups.

So far i haven't noticed any significant difference between both 'cut root' and 'control' groups, (although one plant from each of the two groups died). But the plants that i cut haven't suffered one bit.

I hope you will keep posting the results of this experiment. I would like to know more about the effects of trimming roots. I know some phal growers do it more or less routinely whenever they think it's needed. Please keep us up to date.

Originally Posted by Undergrounder

So while i wouldn't cut a significant number of roots off because you don't want to lose too much root mass, i wouldn't be concerned about trimming a few.

I agree. The point about cutting some but not too much is the point I was trying to make. eg the growing tips of roots are often damaged by excess fertilizer and turn black. At that point they aren't growing any more. When I get a phal with roots like this, I cut off the black tip and use rooting hormone on the cut tip. That seals it from rot and stimulates it to grow. The usual outcome of this is that the root branches and forms two new live and growing tips.

Also when a new plant comes with roots that aren't actively growing (no live growing tips), I treat it just like the black-tip roots: cut off a portion, dip in root hormone. New growing tips form.

It's clear some people have a real problem with this. Anyone who does have a problem with it, don't cut. But *if you don't cut too much*, cutting doesn't harm the plant. That's been my experience.

(Cutting too much? disastrous)

[Iggy75]

Well, I haven't had time to go out and buy a new pot yet (planning on tomorrow). The biggest size pot I had was a 6 inch plastic orchid pot, and it still wouldn't fit, even with soaking the roots and wrapping them. I could only fit the roots in the pot, but couldn't fit much moss around them. I don't think I have seen a larger size orchid specific pot in my area over 6 inches. I like 11Orchid126's idea for the plastic deli containers as pots, very smart! Thanks to everyone for their help.

[mehitabel]

Iggy, others may disagree, but I would be very hesitant to repot into a pot bigger than 6". If you do, burn some extra holes in the bottom with a sauldering iron-- as many as you can fit in and retain the strength of the pot. And definitely use some peanuts in the middle of the root mass. The bottom and the middle of big pots is where problems are most likely to start.

Also use a coarser medium-- larger bark pieces, eg.

The problem that arises as pots get bigger is that the volume of medium in the pot is increasing much faster than the diameter of the pot. So going from 6" to 7" is "only" an inch in diameter, but it's at least twice the volume of medium.

Any medium that doesn't have roots in it to suck up the moisture tends to stay too wet, and suddenly you have problems in the root area.

If you err with such a big pot, err on the side of a pot too small rather than too big.

[lmartiny]

I'm still a learner, but I would not cut the good roots just to fit a pot. I would rather overpot a bit. I use baskets for some of my Phals and one went in sideways and cock-eyed just to accomodate the roots. (a big plant too) As already mentioned, you can find various sized pots and improvise, adding holes in plastic with a soldering iron or glue gun. I prefer terracotta, and have had hubby drill holes in the sides of pots so I could use them for orchids.
And on the root branching, I agree. I've noticed this on my mounts. A someone/something will take the end of the root. And many go on to branch.