New phal leaves purple-getting enough light?

[koshki]

I was just tending my phal today. None of them have any developing spikes. Most have very new or still developing leaves. I've noticed that they all seem to have purple undersides to them. One even had a purple root.

Are they getting enough light? Or do I have another problem?

[mayres]

Are you suggesting "problem" because they are not spiking?
If so, can you give us some additional information. How many plants and what type of phals (names if possible)? How long have you had them? When did they bloom last? There are a lot of factors besides light that will affect when/if your plants will bloom...........

[davetheorchidaddict]

Purple leaves come from too much light

[koshki]

No, I'm concerned about the leaves, actually. All have bloomed during the last six months. I just removed a dead spike this evening.
They're mostly NOIDs, some NOID minis. It's just that they didn't have purple leaves before, and now nearly all do.

[koshki]

Dave, I really don't think they're getting too much light. They're in a north-facing sunroom, not under any artificial light, and it's Michigan in winter. I haven't seen the sun in days.
You could be right, but then I'd have to keep them in a closet!

[PhalNewbie89]

Are the flowers a reddish shade? I have read that many with flowers tend to have leaves that turn purplish. My first phal had completely green leavs when i got it but after it started to produce a new leaf they all became quit purple. I have read that it has to do with lots of light as well as flower color but i have to agree that mine get very little light and still have a lot of purple :P

[mayres]

As Nancy is suggesting - phals that are pink or maroon colored commonly have reddish coloring on the underside of the leaves. Excess light will start bringing the TOP of the leaves red. The conditions you describe couldn't possible be giving too much light. Can you show us a picture or two of the plants/leaves?

[koshki]

I'll try to get pix tomorrow. I mostly go for purple phals, but I have one white one as well.

It's that this is a change. Prior leaves were not like this.

[tangers40]

i agree with the color being due to the plant's genetics. i have a couple maroon or maroon spotted/striped phals that have the reddish purple undertones on the leaves, spikes, and sometimes new roots. my minho princess has turned more purple as it ages....last year's spike was definitely green, this year's was maroon. that's just what it does. now, if your flowers are another color, solid white for example, then you may have to think about lighting. but i'm betting it's normal coloration that's changed as the plant has gotten older.

[syndywindy]

I have a few phal's where the flower color is deep pink, purple or magenta. The leaves for these do have a reddish or purplish tinge to them. I think genetics plays a large part in this.

[PhalNewbie89]

I agree with the genetics and age cmbination. My leaves were all green until I started getting a new leaf, and my new spike started off a magenta color and slowly turned green as it has continued growing. I don't think there is anything wrong with your plants

[koshki]

Ok, here are a couple photos. It was difficult to get a photo that shows the color as it really is (newbie photographer, as well!). The second shot was photoshopped to show better...the leaves really aren't that light green. The last shot shows them all on the seedling mat.

I can understand the genetics explanation, but I'm puzzled why they should all be doing this. Even the Dpts. Minho Princess in the back corner, which has signicantly lighter green leaves, has started a purple one.

I'm probably just over-thinking this one!

[Choodles]

Leaves turning purple/reddish can be a sign of nutrient problems- most notably phosphorous deficiency. Nutrient deficiencies/toxicities/overall availabilities are quite complex (and orchid nutrition is one of the less-studied/understood areas of plant nutrition), and they're hard to prove. But, since you don't seem to have too much light, and all of the plants seem to be doing it, checking out a phos deficiency (or other nutrient problems) might be worthwhile. Here's some info more reliable than my own:
Plant Physiology Online: Symptoms of Deficiency In Essential Minerals
Mineral Nutrition for Slipper Orchid Growers
firstrays.com has a good explanation under "Free Information>>Plant Nutrition", but he asks on that page that it doesn't get re-posted, so I didn't know if a link was appropriate or not...
A phosphorous deficiency could be caused by several "things," including but not limited to:
1. No phosphorous supplied in fertilizer regime, or in too small a quantity and/or frequency.
2. Improper pH- really high and really low pH's will make phosphorous less available, as will low temperatures.

However, a couple sites mention that a reddening of the underside of leaves on some plants can be caused by a nitrogen deficiency...like I said, it can be complicated.

Happy reading and good luck!
Choodles

[koshki]

Choodles, thanks for the info. Our water here is pretty close to neutral, but I will admit that I haven't been very good at the "weakly weekly" regime. I'm more like once every two months, instead of 3 weeks on and one off.

I'll try giving them all a bit more fert and see what happens.

[syndywindy]

My Minho Princess has leaves with a slight reddish tinge and I don't believe there is anything wrong with the plant as a whole. It's been that way since I got it almost a year ago.

[phalaephila]

Hi there:

It might be my eyes, but can you tell us what medium you are using for the phals? To me it looks like soil, as opposed to a bark mix. Not sure if a soil mix might have something to do with the purple leaves; your plants look pretty good, in any case.

[PhalNewbie89]

Looks just like mine, and I dont think fert would be the issue. Mine is spiking now and has a new leaf growing. I don't even fertilize although the miracle gro mix has little fert balls in it... I think it is just genetics and nothing to worry about. Mne with theleaves this color has flowers that are a light lavendar/pink color

[lmartiny]

Some of mine have a purple tinge, as does the spike. I think it is fine.

[mayres]

Your plants look nice and healthy - by no means too much light. As everyone else has noted - the red color is nothing to get excited about - I have lots of them with similar coloring - mostly all in spike right now................enjoy your phals!
phalaephila - looks like they might be in a coir mix (?) - ALL of my phals are also in a media that looks similar. It DOES look like soil to an extent, but is actually quite different - lighter.

[mehitabel]

I agree with everyone. Those are healthy newer leaves on a healthy plant. Not too much light. As someone mentioned, lots of pink, purple, and even white with pink (Nobby's Amy is an eg)have leaves colored like that. That dark green backed by purple-- kind of beautiful, I think.

[maiseymoo]

I posted about this a while ago as one of my ariel roots had turned pink ish and the leaves had turned purply and everyone said that it was just one of them things! I have stopped stressing about it now and the phal is doing fine now with a new spike. I am sure yours will be fine (and I know how hard it is to stop worrying about it!)

[koshki]

Thanks everyone!

All these guys are in Mike's Miracle Medium (coir mix!), and have been growing quite nicely in them. My only complaint about the mix is that if I let them go too long between waterings, the rescue phals (more leaves than roots) have a tendency to fall right out of the pot. This just happened again, so this time I used monofilament line to literally tie them into the net pot, as the rhizome clips did not fix this problem.

I'm going to try to fertilize them a bit more often and otherwise just let them be happy!

Thanks again!

[mehitabel]

Hey, Koshki. I just noticed your phals are on a heat mat! Does your cat ever try to warm his bum on the heat mat?

[HeatherAnnn]

Koshki, I have a quick question for you. I have been looking up pictures and info on "Healthy Looking Phal Leaves". I have read that they are suppose to be a medium green, not as dark as your, and mine. And not floppy as your and mine are as well...Is this true? Or are they full of poo? Because I believe my phal is in great condition!

[koshki]

HeatherAnn, I'm not sure if they're getting enough light. I'm considering hooking up an older fixture I have that has T12s in them.

As for the floppiness, they are vastly improved from what they were when I first started visiting this site. After unpotting and removing dead or rotten roots, I repotted in the coir mix Mayers uses found here: Phal Repotting & Media

The coir mix has really worked for me in my location. Being in Louisiana, you might do better in a different medium (good sphagnum moss, perhaps), since you're probably warmer and more humid there than I am here. But the coir mix is much easier for me to manage as a newbie.

Floppy leaves is something to look in to. I would definitely check out your roots to see what condition they're in. The leaves should not be floppy, and mine aren't really, even though they might look like it in the photos. There is an excellent sticky thread somewhere that I can't find from Brooke who shows how to repot a phal, step by step. Perhaps someone else knows where it is and can attach it?

Good luck!

[HeatherAnnn]

I repotted it already,I 'd say maybe 2 to 3 months ago. It has grwon since I did so. And my roots are nice and green outside the medium. I have it in bark, I hate that moss stuff. I haven't checked the roots in the medium yet, I will do that this evening. I might try moving it closer to the window for more light, worried to do that because we have had some pretty cold weather, and the window is not insulated very well. Or maybe in the bathroom for the humidity, but I have no windows in there, so I will have to leave the light on all day, is there anything wrong with that?

[koshki]

Hopefully Mike will chime in here, but I think that if your phal leaves are floppy, they are not getting enough water.

As for the moss, the stuff my phals came in and what I'm using now aren't even the same enough that they should both be called moss. I bought a bag of New Zealand sphagnum moss from repotme.com, and it is fantastic. Right now, I've got some in plastic containers under my lights, and it is starting to grow (which is cool by itself!), but I've been using it for my moisture-lovers, and it's been great. Nothing like what the phals were in. This is live and healthy!

I had trouble keeping bark moist enough for my phals. That's why I switched to the coir mix. YYMV!

[HeatherAnnn]

http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/pic...pictureid=2954

I hope this works....

Please take a look at them and let me know, I am so worried about my plant now!
And if anyone else has advice please let me know!!

The top leaf on the right side has grown sooo much in the last month, I'd say at least 2 inches, its about to hit the table. To me that is a good sign, it lets me know that it's growing and not dying.

[koshki]

Oh, shoot, those look great! And if that's really the color they are, I think the color is just right. They don't look floppy at all to me.

Nevermind!

[HeatherAnnn]

Got a new Phal!!

Here is a pic I took last night. I stole my mother's Phal because I didn't think it would survive much longer with the way she was caring for it. Mine is the larger one on the left.


I'll post a better pic when I get home around 6-6:30 pm.

The leaves are a little darker now. And bigger.

[mehitabel]

HeatherAnn, I looked at your pictures and here's what I saw:

A beautiful new leaf, Photo #5

A damaged old leaf, Photo #7. No problem. Old leaves often are ugly.

About "floppy leaves" as in "floppy leaves are bad". Floppy here doesn't mean long and wavy. Long and wavy is what lots of leaves are on mature phals. Floppy means semi-wilty, not *turgid*, the leaves need hydrating.

The leaves I saw in your picture didn't look floppy to me, but floppy is a thing of touch-- you touch it, it isn't firm and tough, it's *wilty.* They will also look a little wilty and not quite healthy.

Your plants look fine to me, and the big new leaf means you are doing lots of things right. If the leaves on one really are wilty, either they went thru a too-dry period, or the roots are challenged. If they are wilty because the plant got too dry at some point, a soak in tepid water with 2 TBSP of sugar/quart, and a tiny bit of fertilizer, superthrive if you have any. Soak for 1/2 hour to an afternoon or overnight.

Soak the *leaves* by submerging the whole plant. This often perks up the leaves up and helps them rehydrate.

[HeatherAnnn]

Oh thank you so much mehitabel!! I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulder. Also thank you for clarifying the "floppy leaf" term for me, I feel more confident about my Phal now. As far as the new Phal I have aquired, which was lastnight, my mom had it in that shag moss, packed SO TIGHT that i had to soak the whole plant, pot and all, to get it out! She hadn't watered it since before Christmas!! She said that it was still moist in the center, so it was fine. I got it home and I'd say 75% of the roots were dead, the leaves where so hard that i couldn't bend them, I was afraid they would snap in two! I had read about the sugar and water thing to rehydrate the leaves so that is what I did. Made a world of a difference in 20 mins! When I was done repotting it I put poured some orchid food over it. I am hoping it will begin to look happier within a few days, maybe weeks.

Oh and just one more question, in the fist picture, you can see the two plants side by side, the one on the left is mine, is that the right color green, or should it be a little lighter?

[tangers40]

i don't believe the color of phal leaves should all be the same, either. saying "they should be a medium green" doesn't work for all plants. i have one (Taipei Gold) whose leaves are much darker than all my others, and it gets the same amount of light. even the newest leaves it has grown are the same color. genetics of the plant i'm sure plays a part here somewhere. somebody correct me if i'm wrong, however, but if they all need to be the same color as stated, i better be moving this phal to another window. nothing i do seems to change the color of the leaves.

[berkeleysgr8]

Not all Phal leaves are the same color... I've got some that are darker, some that are lighter and some (like schillerianas) have mottled leaves that have a silvery color. Even in terms of "floppiness" there are some plants that have leaves that seem floppier, even on healthy plants. There is no "one size fits all" with orchids (that's probably why we LOVE them so!).