Dendrobium kingianum culture ?

[NJPaphguy]

I have acquired a new Den. kingianum, mounted. From what I'm reading it requires a Winter rest from watering. I'm assuming that means NO WATER from November until March. Is that correct? or am I not understanding the culture requirements here for this Dendrobium? Is anyone growing this ?
Thanks for your help.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by NJPaphguy

I have acquired a new Den. kingianum, mounted. From what I'm reading it requires a Winter rest from watering. I'm assuming that means NO WATER from November until March. Is that correct?

No that's not correct. I'm not sure what you're reading (the internet is FULL of really horrible "information") but if that's what it said it was wrong. Den kingianum is native to Australia here and almost all the orchid growers here grow it....a LOT of it. Because they are native, we can grow them outdoors all year, without heat or protection. They can be watered all year 'round.

I grow mine in bright indirect light.
Water year 'round, more in spring while they are in active growth.
Summer daytime high temps are in the 30'sC (90'sF), and winter night time lows are in the single digits C (high 30's and 40'sF).

Originally Posted by NJPaphguy

or am I not understanding the culture requirements here for this Dendrobium?

It's possible that the article was referring to nobile-type dendrobiums (of which kingianum is not). Nobile-type dendrobiums do require a dry, bright, cool winter rest.

[NJPaphguy]

Hi -

Sorry, but all of the info I am reading is infact stating that Dendrobium kingianum needs a COOL and DRY WINTER REST in order to set buds. I have not read that this dendrobium needs to be watered year-round.

[Undergrounder]

Nope that's not exactly correct, you don't give kingis a real winter rest, you just water them less in autumn/winter and you can hold off water completely for maybe a month in winter to induce them into flowering. But it's not necessary, unlike the Den. nobile types.

http://www.bribieislandorchidsociety...-Kingianum.pdf

Edit: NJPaphguy all the info you're reading is wrong.

[NJPaphguy]

Yep, the culture-sheet states "A dry Rest in the winter months". To me, that means NO WATER..........Growing Den. Kingianum in the USA Northeast is far different than growing it in Australia !

[Stelios]

it's ok to water it normally during winter, to keep it at the dry side by watering less or give it a dry rest for the colder winter weeks (up to 6 weeks).
The difference is that with more water it grows more keikis and less flowers when with less water it flowers but grows only a couple of keikis.
The middle road of watering it but every once in a while is the best as the plant is not stressed so much and it produce both keikis and flowers in abundance.

[Ron]

Yep, the culture-sheet states "A dry Rest in the winter months". To me, that means NO WATER..........Growing Den. Kingianum in the USA Northeast is far different than growing it in Australia !

I like reading good clean jokes and many "Orchid Fact Sheets" on the web, make me laugh!!
Look at some of the information available from people who actually grow them.
I grew them for years, they love watering more often in summer and occasionally in winter.
They do not like to be constantly wet in winter, just enough to avoid the canes from excessive shrinking.
Cheerio
Ron

[tangers40]

i have a kingi in s/h right now. should i withhold water for a while during the winter as well? or should i continue to keep the reservior full as i have been doing? i know s/h is a completely different ballgame in regards to watering.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by NJPaphguy

Growing Den. Kingianum in the USA Northeast is far different than growing it in Australia !

The methods may be different but the cultural needs of the plant will not be different. It's still the same plant and they will still have the same cultural needs. The specific methods used by different growers in different parts of the world differ, one person may grow indoors, another outdoors, one may grow it mounted while another grows in a pot, etc., etc., etc., but the plants will still all have the same cultural needs. My kingies are outside all year round and our winters are cool (days 10-15C, nights 5-10C) and rainy. My kingies get watered all winter long.

The more you describe what the source says the more it sounds like it is describing nobile-type culture. What are your sources?

Originally Posted by tangers40

i have a kingi in s/h right now. should i withhold water for a while during the winter as well? or should i continue to keep the reservior full as i have been doing?

Since kingies do not require a dry winter rest (they do need a cool winter though) I'd continue watering it normally eventhough in s/h.

[Bolero]

I am with Kevin, they need to be watered year round, they do need less water in winter but to stop watering completely sounds like a big risk to me.

[PhalPal]

I grow mine in full sun and they get hosed when dry, all year long. To state the obvious, any plant will require less water when it is not in a very active growing stage and this happens to be during the winter for kingies. I grow them with my cymbidiums outdoors all year and I do nothing different in winter.

[tangers40]

ty kmarch. i figured i'd keep it full, but just checking since i'm so new to all this nonsense and know virtually nothing.

[Stitz]

NJPaphguy,
What's so difficult? Recognize the advice from Kevin as fact.

Let's try something different. Charles Baker's data shows Den kingianum average monthly rainfall exceeds 6" during mid summer. It's less than 2"/month during Feb-Mar. That is what is known as a "rest". The rain figures are translated from the Southern Hemisphere into Northern Hemisphere months, ok?

--Stitz--

[PhalPal]

Originally Posted by NJPaphguy

Yep, the culture-sheet states "A dry Rest in the winter months". To me, that means NO WATER

The difference in opinion here lays in the definition of what a 'dry winter rest' means. The word 'dry' is relative to the amount of water needed by the plant the rest of the year. (see the facts above from Stitz)

I made this same mistake a year ago when a grower actually told me the orchid I was buying from her needed a 'dry winter' and she told me to stop watering completely from Halloween to Valentines Day. Turns out she was wrong and I nearly killed the plant from severe dehydration. If I hadn't noticed the signs and questioned her advice a month into this dry-out and posted pictures on the forum I would have lost an expensive orchid.

So, it's up to you how you want to interpret the information given to you.

[kid a]

I have always watered my Kingies as normal throughout the winter. They have not bloomed for me before but they are all very small plants. 2 are in two inch square pots with room to grow, and the other is on a 1 inch by 2.5 inches bonsai pot in spahgnum.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by NJPaphguy

Yep, the culture-sheet states "A dry Rest in the winter months". To me, that means NO WATER..........Growing Den. Kingianum in the USA Northeast is far different than growing it in Australia !

NJPaphguy -- Maybe I'm just being sensitive but your comment seems a bit rude to me. You asked for help from people who are growing this orchid. And...as usual for the helpful group of geeks on this forum...people who grow this orchid...experienced kingi growers.... have given you said help/advice. Your reaction/response confuses me...and I repeat...seems a bit rude.

Personally...when I ask for help and experienced growers take the time to help me w/my questions (people don't have to respond you know)...I listen to those more experienced than I...rather than act argumentative. [how's that for a run on sentence?]

[Stitz]

When an organism "rests", respiration decreases.

This does not imply a complete withdrawal of food or water.

--Stitz--

[Undergrounder]

Originally Posted by katrina

NJPaphguy -- Maybe I'm just being sensitive but your comment seems a bit rude to me. You asked for help from people who are growing this orchid. And...as usual for the helpful group of geeks on this forum...people who grow this orchid...experienced kingi growers.... have given you said help/advice. Your reaction/response confuses me...and I repeat...seems a bit rude.

Personally...when I ask for help and experienced growers take the time to help me w/my questions (people don't have to respond you know)...I listen to those more experienced than I...rather than act argumentative. [how's that for a run on sentence?]

I'm sure i said much the same thing just a few posts ago but my post disappeared into thin air. I think it's rude that mods will just delete posts without informing people at all, let alone telling them why. Whoever deleted my post, which i don't think warranted being deleted, please notify me why in the future. If i put the time and effort into writing a post i don't like it being secretly wiped out without being told why. Thankyou.

[PhalPal]

Undergrounder I have had 'very nice' posts just disappear into thin air!! Sometimes the program just deletes posts (or entire threads) without notice. If a thread gets out of hand we might be warned, but a post has to be really nasty for the mods to delete something and this is rare. I think the mods do an excellent job of letting us run with ideas without letting disagreements get out of control. Believe me....if you said something inappropriate they would let you know!!!

[Undergrounder]

Probably PhalPal, maybe i forgot to post it or pushed the wrong button or something..

[Stitz]

Undergrounder,

I see: Location: Sydney
Which country/state/province, please?
If it isn't obvious, I'm a li'l bit slow....

Thanks,

--Stitz--

[Andrew]

RE the so called dry rest for kingies, there is an element of truth in it but it's very much overstated and applies more to the inferior quality keiki machines rather than to the line bred and selected plants. Kingies vary greatly in their willingness to flower vs their willingness to produce keiki's. Much of this is genetically influenced but environment can direct bad genetics to some extent. The kingies sold by most Australian nurseries are the result of breeding programs that have tried to produce better flowering plants with a lower tendency to produce keiki's. Unfortunately the abundance of keiki's produced by some of the more inferior quality plants has meant that these poor plants often persist in cultivation via show sales tables (they're cheap) but they are slowly being culled from our collections. I have noticed that these poor quality plants are still prevelent in nurseries outside of Australia (although I have also noticed that there is an increasing amount of good quality breeding being sold in the States etc). With the more floriferous kingies in Australia you can water them regularly year round and they flower easily. If you're growing poor quality plants, reducing the water in the winter can reduce the tendancy to produce keiki's thus tipping the balance in favour of flowers but if the temperature is low enough and the light high enough, they'll often put up flowers anyway with minimal restriction of watering.

The problem comes when you try to grow this garbage too warm and not bright enough during winter in which case you will get plenty of keiki's and no flowers. If your conditions just fall short of good kingie conditions, holding back on the watering can reduce the keiki growth enough to get some flowering. The problem with this is that plants have higher water needs at higher temps so you have to balance forcing the plant out of active growth with the risk of desiccation.

Realistically though, if you don't have a suitable environment for growing kingianums you'd be better ditching the high keiki/low flower garbage and buying some decent quality plants to give you a fighting chance of getting them to flower without having to hold back on water. Not knowing the American nurseries, all I can recommend is that if the kingies you see for sale have clonal names in the breeding background, your chances of buying something decent are reasonable. If the nursery classifies the kingies they sell as either the pink form or the white form of the species, look somewhere else.