producing keikis

[koshki]

Ok, I'm a newbie, so I might not exactly understand this but...how do you concentrate on "producing keikis"?? I thought a plant produced keikis when under stress. And can you make a plant NOT produce flowers?

[rcb]

koshki with Vandas is pretty easy to force keikiis. One way is to use hormones that are sold for exactly that. Another way is to chop off the top part of the plant, basically creating two plants, making sure you cut where both pieces will have a decent root system. Then the bottom plant has had it's growing tip removed, so it will send out basal keikiis. I had to do this with one of my Vandas last fall, it had gotten a bacterial infection, so I cut it back. Within a month, two keikiis had started.

BTW, before mericloning was developed, this was pretty much the only way to get a division of a specific plant.

As for stopping a plant from flowering, cut the spike, it won't flower lol Why would you do this? I'm guessing here - a plant puts a lot of energy into flowering. By removing the spike and flowers, the plant can use that energy to grow.

[digitalgate]

another method is to use 63 growth fertilizer .They tend fo produce leave.

[patticake]

Good advice above ^

[mehitabel]

koshki, some orchids have genetic ancestry that produces keikis. Phalaenopsis equestris and Doritis are two. So yes, a plant under stress may produce keikis. But all keikis do not indicate a plant under stress.

I don't know about "concentrating on producing keikis". I don't know why someone might have said that. How to not produce flowers -- well, you could let the dog eat it, stick it in a closet and overwater it. That ought to work Sorry for the levity-- don't know how to answer.

[koshki]

Not sure how this happened, but this thread was exerpted from the one about the $5,000 orchid. In the ebay description the seller mentioned that he had had the plant "concentrating on producing keikis", which prompted my question. Sorry this thread is a bit out of context. Perhaps I was too off-topic and the moderator sent it elsewhere?

Same goes for the "not producing flowers" part. And I learned that the hard way myself yesterday when my cat knocked over a new dendrobium and chewed leaves and flowers alike! Bad kitty!!

[janet_a]

well, if it's a phal, you grow it too warm and it won't produce flowers. (that's how they get those fabulous huge plants with the several-foot long arched flower spikes--grow 'em warm and huge for several years and then carefully cool them to produce the spikes.) if it's a nobile type dendrobium, you keep watering and feeding them well through the 'dry' period, and the plant may pop out keikis instead of blooming.

[Forever-mango]

Sorry im a newb in terms of orchid terms, but what exactly is a "keikis"?

[digitalgate]

in short babies from orchid.

[rcb]

Mango it's basically a growth (new lead) from a spot that is not typical. For example on sympodial orchids, it would be a growth not from the base of the plant. For monopodial orchids, it would be a growth not from the top growing tip. Keikiis also usually grow their own separate root system, and can be removed when big enough if you want to.

Depending on the genus and/or species, some are prone to grow them, some are not. There are many environmental factors as well that can cause a plant to "throw" keikiis.

Digi is correct in that the word keikii is Hawaiian for baby.

[Forever-mango]

Thanks for that guys.

So will Dendrobiums produce keikis?

I see them producing new canes from next to old ones.

[rcb]

Yes some Dend. are prone to growing keikis. If the new cane comes from the base, it is really not considered a keiki. That is normal growth pattern.

If a new cane comes from an old cane, from the top or some ways up the cane, it usually is considered a keiki.

Some Dend grow keikis instead of flowering, some Dend grow keikis regularly and flower, and some don't grow keikis easily. It depends on the species, or in case of a hybrid, the species in the background.

I know this is confusing, there is really not one specific answer, but I'm trying to keep it clear. If you would like to see pictures, I can take them, I happen to have 3 Dens right now doing all three different patterns.

[Forever-mango]

Rcb,

Im getting confused already Pictures will definately help

[Rivka]

my noble type den is covered with keikis wether i want it to be or not, but they seem happy so im going with it.
i just finally after almost 6 months of letting them grow, just removed the upper most ones that had taken over a single cane. the cane was drying out and starting to go brown so i figured it had given its all for the little babies.

i have 3 medium size 2-3 growth keikis with good roots growing together in s/h in a makeshift "terrarium" environment i sure hope they continue to do so well. i left the ones that were growing low enough to get their roots into the parents s/h (basel keikis) right were they are, i will most likely regroup all the plants back together next summer when i do repotting and the little ones are good to be out in normal air

here are some pictures that show them. hope this clears a bit up for you:

first one is the babies starting last spring halfway up on a noble type den that had finished blooming
second one is that plant today with the lower ones still attached and growing great in the upper center you can see where i cut a cane off and treated the cut with cinnamon, the cane sections are planted with the other keikis still attached (just one method).
third is a close up on the lower keiki, you will notice that it seems like it "very own plant" with roots and a growth, often heading out in a random direction, not like a new cane of a old plant.
forth and last is 3 keikis, each with 2 or 3 growths and roots over a inch long placed in a pot themselves, i have it partially covered to increase the humidity

[rcb]

Rivka, thanks that shows the keikiis pretty well.

mango, please remember that Dendrobium is a huge genus, and there are so many different kinds. Nobile types are one kind, that are commonly hybridized. Phal type are another that are commonly hybridized.

Nobile types tend to grow keikiis instead of flowering. But not all Dens behave this way. Some different types of Dens freely keikii as well, but not instead of flowering.

Here are some more pictures.

1. New growth on a Dend. monofiliforme, notice the new growth starts at the base of the older ones. These are not called keikis.

2. keiki growth on my Dend ruckeri. This plant freely throws keikis, and has nothing to do with water/fertilizing during it's dormant phase. This plant bloomed for me last spring, as it was supposed to, and put out new growth from the base, as well as keiki during the growth period. This is common for this species.

3. My Den aduncum - just started keikis last week, you can see they are still pretty small. This plant I think is doing this as it is confused as to what time of the year it is. (Not a very bright plant lol) It shouldn't be doing this right now, but I thought it was a good example of keiki when they start.



So how do you know what type of Den you have? Research it is the only way, ask questions, internet, books, then you know what type of care to give it. Not all Dens require the same growing conditions.

One more thing - it seems like a lot of people remove their keikis. I don't unless the plant seems to be dying, and I'm going to get a piece to try to keep it growing, or I'm cutting off a piece to give to someone else. I like my plants to get big, and put out lots of flowers, so I leave the keikis on.

[E-Jag]

Renee, I knew sooner or later I'd run across someone who doesn't remove keikeis from their plants. I don't have much experience with them but do have one nobile type den with two keikeis on it. I decided to leave them alone and go for a bigger plant/more blooms but wasn't sure whether that would sap strength from the parent. Thanks for mentioning that.

[Forever-mango]

Renee, so in other words keikis can be called sideshoots that grows in the sides of the stems?

Can you get kiekis on Dendrobium speciosum?

[rcb]

Originally Posted by Forever-mango

Renee, so in other words keikis can be called sideshoots that grows in the sides of the stems?

Can you get kiekis on Dendrobium speciosum?

Mango - For Dendrobiums, yes you could say that. For other genera that would not necessarily work.

As for speciosum - I don't know. I've never had this one. I think Fred grows this one - at least he has wonderful photos of them - maybe he knows?

BTW is you are really interested in Dendrobiums, the book Dendrobium and it's Relatives by Lavarak et al, is a wonderful reference book. Kevin has recommended this book before, and I completely agree with him.

[mehitabel]

I have two phals with developing spikes, but which had problems in the crown which have been stopped. I don't know if they will ever produce more leaves from the crown. They certainly have been slow about it.

They're study and healthy otherwise, so should produce basal keikis in time. But today I decided to see if I could hurry the process up. I put keiki paste on the bottom two nodes on the spike. I also smeared keiki paste all over the bottom part of the stem (above the roots), per hints from Bob Gordon that this may produce basal keikis.

They are now down in a warm, humid basement. Hopefully will get a whole lot of basal keikis as well as the two on the spike.

It's definitely an experiment. I can stand to give up the flowers on these two if that's what happens. I know keiki paste develops keikis on the spike, but I am curious to see whether the stem proper can be stimulated to produce keikis as well. We'll see.

If it works, I'm going to try a few more, see if I can produce some big multi-crowned plants on favorites.

[tansyflower]

"Can you get kiekis on Dendrobium speciosum?"

I have seen one at an orchid show that had a keiki on it.

[Forever-mango]

Originally Posted by rcb

BTW is you are really interested in Dendrobiums, the book Dendrobium and it's Relatives by Lavarak et al, is a wonderful reference book. Kevin has recommended this book before, and I completely agree with him.

Hello Renee, thanks for the info

I really love Dendrobiums, especially the native ones

Cant wait for mine to flower