Monster phal imposter?

[Tarad]

Ok all how many remember monster phal, my first huge phal that I had to cut the top off to get rid of the root mess....it is called Mandarin Fancy a beautiful display of very salmony blooms? Well monster phal is blooming! BUT WAIT here is a few pics of the buds starting to open.... what do you think?? This plant has about 8 subspikes with buds. It is so dark this am the pics dont really show what I am trying to tell you. I am including the sellers description pic of what I actually bought, do you think it is really the one in the pic the color is different. Tara

[janet_a]

first of all, the color of the bud may not be indicative of the color of the mature bloom. 2d, the local environment of the plant can affect the color/marking of the flowers. also, the photos on sellers' sites may not be entirely accurate as to color.

pretty plant, nonetheless.

[dorothea]

seller's picture looks like a solid color phal, maybe with some lines
yours looks like kaleidoscope, which is totally different from the first picture

[dtje2000]

Hard to tell without a closeup of the seller's representation, but it looks like your flower is darker with more yellow... that may blend as it matures, though. I know some of mine tend to get more muted as they open fully. Of course, if your photos show the flower fully opened, well, I will sure retract my first opinion!

Both are gorgeous, though...

[janet_a]

mandarin fancy seems to be a descendant of B. kaleidoscope, so the striping is probably right.

[Tarad]

Hmmm perhaps I should bring it outside and take a pic. I am recalling now that one in the pic is one of three Mandarin Fancys in the auction and they were all huge with 12 or more leaves. Mine may have been one not shown, and I think the environment statement Janet made could be the answer. I will take more pics when it is in full bloom. IT is a cool color, but waaa I want it to look like that pic lol. Tara

[brookn]

I don't believe this is the same plant from the pic. It may be Mandarin Fancy, but those blooms are peloric. Did this bloom normally for you at some point? Since this plant has more spikes waiting to open, I am curious to see what the blooms are going to look like. I am betting this plant stays peloric for you, and always has been. It is too established a plant, and I am guessing that you got this one by mistake. If you were supposed to receive the plant in the photo such as it stated, "the plant in photo is the one you will receive" then I would contact the seller. As for the coloring, this is a Baldan's plant, so it very likely has Kaleidoscope in it. The coloring of the blooms can be affected by light levels.

[mayres]

Are you comparing pics 2-4 with the first? If so it appears to me that this cannot be the same as you are comparing a peloric phal with a normal bloom? Am I correct?

[janet_a]

peloric, or maybe just the flowers not open all the way yet..?

[trinigirl]

To me they look totally different. I like yours much more. It will really look cool with more buds open.

[brookn]

The blooms she is showing of hers are peloric, if you look carefully you can see the folded ones are mimicking the pattern of the lip.

[PhalPal]

The color will mellow but peloric is peloric and won't change.

[kmarch]

I have a couple of questions Tarad:
1) Am I understanding correctly that the first pic is the vendor's pic and the rest are of the plant you received?
2) Did the vendor say the vendor's pic was the actual plant you would receive or is it just representative of the cross?
3) Do you know if you were buying a mericlone or a seed grown plant?

[Tarad]

OOO I am not going to be very happy if those blooms stay like that they are not open all the way yet. I am going email the seller with these pics. I paid way too much for this phal to get the wrong one . Tara

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Tarad

I paid way too much for this phal to get the wrong one . Tara

Before you fire off an upset email it's possible you did not receive the wroing one.

Did the vendor say the vendor's pic was the actual plant you would receive or is it just representative of the cross?

Do you know if you were buying a mericlone or a seed grown plant?

[Tarad]

No worrys Kevin. I would never burn my bridges with a scathing email, unless I was dealing with a real crook. Yes, I was sent a picture of the real plant and I believe it to be teh one in that picture, but as you can see there are more than one in that picture. You can also see though they are the same color as the other. I have never had any issues with Baldans and have several of their phals and all as I expected or better than. I sent them my pic and theirs and hopefully they will recognize what is going on. I am trying to find my original emails was more than a year ago. I am quite certain it was not a mericlone. I would not pay the price I did unless I was certain it was the one in the pic. Tara

[Tarad]

Guys help me understand peloric a little more. Is it a genetic trait or an environmental happening that causes this?Tara

[violetta]

Tarad, I found this article about peloric orchids
Peloric Orchids

[PhalPal]

Excellent link violetta - Thank You!

I cut and pasted a few lines from the writing Violetta linked above:
'The presence of peloria is genetic, but expression of peloria may be influenced by environmental changes or by being stressed. These are not always stable, and the plant may flower normally on the next inflorescence.
While some peloric orchids pop up haphazardly, others are being bred, mericloned and marketed.'

This pretty much answers all our questions regarding peloria in very few words! The above statement is what I have always believed to be true as well. I think it is an interesting phenomena. I don't know exactly what stressors can cause petals to express themselves as peloric; it would be interesting to know exactly which ones and just how much stress it takes to cause this.

I bought an orchid from Baldans on ebay in the past few months and the color of the plant I received was very different. It was a red /purple color and very difficult to capture on film, and they stated this in their description. The blooms I got were actually prettier! Baldans is a major grower and I am sure they will do right by you.

Thanks again for finding this violetta - we all learned something!

[MLP]

Tarad, will be interesting to see pictures after the flower opens. I too purchased a Mandarin Fancy last fall, mine looks just like the vendor's picture - very pretty salmon/pinkish flower with very faint striping. I'm wondering if the label/tag could have been accidently mixed up?

[Tarad]

Gulp the more I read and think the more I know I have the wrong plant as that color is not close to the same. It has not opened all the way yet so no new pics yet. I have emailed Baldans hopefully I will hear from them. All other phals for m them were all fine and exactly as advertised so I am sure I will hear from them. Tara

[solay]

I'm curious to see how it opens up. In my opinion, yours look much prettier than the first picture.

Hopefully the seller will remedy this situation for you. Good luck!

[hulaorchid]

I hope it all works out Tara!
I remember this ebay auction you had posted a link to it. I thought it was the same plant that was pictured!? The first pict.

[Brooke]

Go back up to PhalPal's post and reread her cut and paste section. Do you think being shipped from a warm FL g/h to a cold, dry WI windowsill, being cut into two pieces which resulted in massive root loss, could be part of the problem?

Brooke

[Tarad]

Brooke I have not dismissed the fact that the plant was stressed and could cause the peloric shape, however would it change the color too to a different color, is what I am wondering. Besides the fact that I bought this over a year ago and had to operate on it. Ultimately I should have done something back then when I suspected the thing arrived in the gnarly mess it was in and also suspected unless I did what I did to it that it would not survive. I bypassed that thinking then because of the color I wanted that color. SO operatiing to save it perhaps did this to it. I suspect that Baldans is not going to do anything about it, no do I expect them too at this point. I havent heard from them. Because I operated on it I would not believe they will feel responsible and perhaps nor should they. Tara

[Brooke]

I'm not saying you did anything wrong with reducing the size of the plant I was just trying to point out the plant has really been through a major upheaval the last few months.

Yes the environment/growing conditions can change the perception of bloom coloration. High light/low light/warm temps/cool temps will give you different colors of the bloom.

Digital cameras are famous for not being able to capture true colors. Look at pictures #2and #3 and compare with your picture #4 - on my computer screen they are not the same color. Taking a picture in natural light or with a flash or with an incandescent bulb in the area can all change the color of the same bloom. Computer monitors also have to be color calibrated monthly to keep them displaying colors correctly.

Give the plant some more time to settle in and it could end up being what you thought it was. I think the plant has done a great job making the change and still getting ready to bloom it's heart out.

Brooke

[Tarad]

I did not take any offense Brooke, I respect your expertise tremendously. As for the pictures, number 4 was taken sort of in the dark, number three is very good example of the color. It is not a horrible color, it is just not teh color I expected at all. Now, if peloric state can actually change the color too, that explains it all. I heard from Baldans and she says she has a Hilo Lip that is peloric and red one year and normal the next year. So as you said Brooke it could come back. It has been though a lot, first a surgery THEN 50- weather most of the winter, all of my other phals bloomed normally, same spot same environment. Tara

[davetheorchidaddict]

I have a question about the name, 'Mandarin Fancy' because I cannot find it in either Wildcatt nor Wiz but I do find 'Mandarin Fire' which looks like your orchid Tara. I have found that not all the pictures nor clones are the same as what I have gotten so I just keep them and enjoy the beauty of what I got. I do not know who you purchased it from but I always buy from a vendor that I know. When I first started I did not care about that and picked them up anywhere, got burned a few times. Yours does look nice the way it is, beautiful.

[Tarad]

Mandarin Fancy is a Baldans orchid. I have dealt with Baldans for a few years and have never had a problem. This "problem" is not thier fault. I sent them a pic and got an answer from them, she said "Oh yes that is definately fancy alright. Mandarin Fancy is a huge sized orchid get realllly big, flowers and all. They cant keep them in stock it is so popular. Right away she said she would look through the greenhouse for another for me, but I wont let her send me one as I believe after talking this out it was environment. Like you said it is a pretty color the way it is. Theonly thing that hurts is that I paid a whopping amount for the phal as it was huge and everyone wanted it on ebay. The last one she put up went for a pretty big amount too. Bright side....the thing is spiking all over the place!!! Tara

[dorothea]

I can't believe different environment can make such difference! I like your phal too, maybe a bit more than the seller's picture (I like stronger colors on phals, they fade eventually anyway )

[hulaorchid]

Oh Tara let them send another if you get to keep both!! I hope it turns out ok!! It is a beautiful color anyway!!

[Tarad]

Well Jacqui if they send me a little baby maybe, but to replace we are talking about a big big phal up in years and cost over 100.00. Tara

[hulaorchid]

Only if it's for free!! to replace the one you have, since you spent alot!

[patticake]

Oh, my...I missed this thread somehow. I hope things work out for you.

[Tarad]

I did , but remember I operated on it and lopped off the bottom half LOL Tara

[Tarad]

I tried to take a few more pics to show the spiking. this phal is really hard to photograph it is bigger than it looks in the pic.

[PhalPal]

Now, on my computer these pictures have more of a salmon looking color???? The spiking is beautiful!!! Truly, after the stress of last year I am surprised that this orchid is spiking at all for you. Just a severe change in environment could be enough to cause a phal to skip a year of flowers. It probably thought to itself "I'm going to bloom for her this year but I'm giving her peloric flowers this time!!!" It really will be beautiful Tara!
How is the other half doing????(the one you topped??)

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by davetheorchidaddict

I have a question about the name, 'Mandarin Fancy' because I cannot find it in either Wildcatt nor Wiz but I do find 'Mandarin Fire' which looks like your orchid Tara.

Originally Posted by Tarad

Mandarin Fancy is a Baldans orchid.

There is a bit of a name problem here. There is no hybrid registered with the name Phal. Mandarin Fancy.

[Tarad]

Connie, I agree with you on the spiking it is cool. The color is a lot darker than that picture.I put quite a bit of light on it. I am not sure what you mean the other half? This phal is actually the top half of the original plant. The bottom half was a woody gnarly mess. If I had kept it intact I would have had to raise it on its side.

Kevin when I purchased the plant the auction read...Barbara Baldans Mandarin Fancy. Tara

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Tarad

Kevin when I purchased the plant the auction read...Barbara Baldans Mandarin Fancy.

There's a hybrid named Phal Barbara Baldan's Mandarin and a hybrid named Phal Mandarin Fire. It sounds like perhaps hybrid names (grexes) and cultivar names are being confused? You and Dave had posted back and forth about 'Mandarin Fire' and 'Mandarin Fancy' using single quotation marks which indicate cultivar names, not hybrid names yet Mandarin Fire is a grex (hybrid name) and it looks like the "Fancy" part of Mandarin Fancy maybe should be a cultivar name then? Perhaps Phal Barbara Baldan's Mandarin 'Fancy' ?

[Tarad]

So sad one of the blooms fell off today after less than a week open Tara

[kid a]

I think most pelorics rebloom as peloric. I have a peloric phal and bought it in bloom as peloric and when it it rebloomed they were peloric also, not necessarily a bad thing but its a bit different looking and some people like them and some don't lol. I think it looks neat lol.

[Tarad]

Kortney, I hope you are wrong, I dont care for the shape of these blooms at all, it is like they never open all the way or they are suffering sort of. Tara

[Tarad]

Kevin, here is a typical Baldan's auction description........



BALDAN ORCHIDS HAS BEEN CREATING & BREEDING ORCHIDS FOR OVER 35 YEARS SPECIALIZING IN PHALAENOPSIS, HYBRID CROSSES,YELLOWS,STRIPES,PEACHES,ORANGE SUNSETS,SALMON ART SHADES,AND OUR MOST FAMOUS PHAL ORCHID TO DATE THE AWARD WINNING BALDAN'S KALEIDOSCOPE''GOLDEN TREASURE''AM/AOS.WELCOME TO OUR EXCLUSIVE EBAY SALE YOU WILL ONLY FIND THIS SALE HERE ON EBAY! THIS IS PHAL SPECIE HYBRID BALDANS 'STRAWBERRY MIST' THIS ORCHID IS FROM OUR FLUORESCENT COLLECTION, WE WILL BE LISTING MANY NICE CLONES THIS WEEK FOR OUR MOTHERS DAY SPECIAL, ALL HAVE THE SAME PARENT'S DIFFERENT COLORS ALL FLUORESCENT. JUST A GARDEN OF BEAUTIES. THE FLOWERS ARE DARK HOT PINK WITH A PURPLE GLOW IN COLOR, FLOWER SIZE MID PLANT SIZE XXX LARGE THIS ONE IS A GIANT ! WITH THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS ROOT SYSTEM! ROOT'S ARE EVERYWHERE SUPER HEALTHY WOW! DO NOT TRY TO POT THEM ALL THE OUTER ROOT'S LIKE TO HANG LIKE A VANDA. WHEN IN BLOOM YOU WILL HAVE MANY MANY FLOWERS, THIS ORCHID GROWS VERY TALL SPIKES. ABSOLUTLY BEAUTIFUL GOOD LUCK ON THIS BEAUTY. ORCHID UP FOR AUCTION IS HUGE!!! HAS 2 TALL FAN SPIKES TON'S OF BUD'S AS YOU CAN SEE, SEE PICTURE'S FOR AUCTUL ORCHID UP FOR AUCTION.THIS ORCHID WILL BE IN BLOOM FOR A VERY LONG TIME TO COME MANY MONTHS. ALL PICTURES ARE OF THE AUCTUL ORCHID UP FOR AUCTION PICTURES TAKEN DAY OF AUCTION START.SORRY THIS ORCHID IS VERY LARGE AND TALL SHIPPING WILL BE A BIT HIGH.WE DO COMBINE SHIPPING WITH MULTI ORDERS SEND US YOUR CHECK OUT WHEN ALL YOUR AUCTIONS HAVE ENDED WE WILL RETURN YOUR INVOICE WITH THE DISCOUNTED SHIPPING RATE.WE ALSO SEND A FULL CARE SHEET FOR ALL OF OUR ORCHIDS.ANY QUESTIONS FEEL FREE TO EMAIL US BEFORE ORDERING.PLEASE READ BELOW FOR SHIPPING DETAILS.THANK YOU FROM THE BALDANORCHIDS FAMILY AND STAFF.

[kmarch]

WOW ... That's full on ... Unfortunately it doesn't help us with respect to the names of your orchid. It'll be interesting to see their response to your email.

[Tarad]

Yep so far they have not answered, they are usually very quick. Tara

[davetheorchidaddict]

Tarad, why did you ask this, you have rejected everything that is not giving you sympathy. As for the answer from THE BALDANORCHIDS FAMILY AND STAFF, what more could you expect, they defend themself. Past awards and all of that other stuff is plain eyewash. They may have a good name and are a good grower but still even the largest make mistakes at times, don't we all. But if you ask a question don't try to put down every answer that you don't agree with. For an orchid to be named officially it must be registered. Like I said in my last post, just enjoy what you have, it is a beautiful orchid. Good luck with your Phal, I hope it works out for you.

[Tarad]

Dave the orchidaddict, this post has turned into a name thing. That is the subject at hand. All I can post is what the Baldan people tell me and from what I know it is not registered. I never if you read up said anything about caring if the orchid is registered or not. Unfortunately all the blooms are gone in this quick time and were not formed correctly like the pic in the auction. If you paid what I did for this orchid, you too would not be very happy about how it turned out. Who knows whos fault it is. I have not asked for another one from them. I dont blame Baldans as far as some phals I have from them are very nice. When I mention the names it becomes a debate with red flags about names. Tara

[happy go lucky]

I spent 20 minutes on the internet searching for Baldan Orchids website. I also searched through Ebay's stores for Baldan's. I could not find it. Could someone please post their Baldan's web address? Thanks.

[brookn]

Hi it looks like Baldan's is only selling on ebay. You might be able to contact them through ebay to see if they are currently selling from the greenhouse without the auction.

[Tarad]

Brookn is correct Baldans is only selling on ebay right now as far as the internet goes. They use to have a website but took it down and it has not put it back up. They said they were going too but has not happened yet and that was quite soem time ago, not sure how that is going for them. Below is a number for one of there auctions. At least with this you can get into their other auctions with that. Tara

140318270695

[davetheorchidaddict]

Tarad, Kevin told you that there is an orchid named Phal Barbara Baldan's Mandarin which is what the ad said-"Kevin when I purchased the plant the auction read...Barbara Baldans Mandarin Fancy", I have also found that orchid in Whiz. As far as being upset, I would be more than upset if I had paid $100+ for that orchid and would not be satisfied until I got an exchange of equil value or my money back and I would send the plant back. I have spent much more than $150 for an orchid but I want to see what I am getting. I do not buy on Ebay auctions because from what I have observed they sell for more than the value that they could be purchased else where. That is why some of these vendors have quit selling in other ways such as on the net, shows or their own greenhouses. Caviot Emptor - buyer beware. I also listen to what others say without defending my position because they may be right so I check out what I was told then I discard it and go on without further comment. Happy growing

[happy go lucky]

I support Davidthe orchid addict's buyer beware warning. Having had bad experiences with ebay buying cell phones and computers, I have refrained from purchasing anything else on Ebay. Problems I have had was two sellers refusing to spend the little time it takes to update a shipping address. Thereby, I did not receive the cell phones. Other sellers failing to disclose that their used cell phones that did not work and did not come with SIM cards. AT&T was purchased by Cingular. New AT&T SIM cards were no longer being sold. Outrageous shipping costs. Laptops being auctioned in the last two days at higher prices than they are worth. I spent the time reviewing the specifications and prices of laptops. I made reasonable bids. Then in the last two days before the auction, the bidding prices quickly go up beyond what an used laptop with no warranty and an used battery are worth.