PH and orchids

[elitebettas]

Hi all,
I want to take my collection to the next level and am trying to learn the ins and outs in regards to PH and water for the plants. Mainly because the correct pH affects nutrient availability to the plant. I tested my pH and it is quite alkaline for my tap water. What ways have you all used to decrease the pH? I'm working with 7.4, maybe higher (after fertilizer is added to the gallon of water), but want it to be 6 or a little below. Can I use vinegar to decrease the PH?
Also, if you have a high PH, does this mean you have high TDS (Total dissolved solids)?

[kmarch]

In my opinion pH levels are irrelevant unless you're in an extreme situation where your water has an atypically high or low pH. I know heaps of growers from beginning hobbyists to seasoned breeders who use everything from tap water to rain water, to pond water, to "grey" water, none of whom pay any attention to pH levels and all of whom have excellent, even award-winning results. I'd recommend not spending any time wondering about pH.

[Ron]

Hi I would go along with Kevins statement.
While it would be nice to have a PH perfect water (?) one does with what is available.
Most town waters are 7 to 8+ because if it was acid 6 or lower the acid water would corrode the water pipe lines.
They make alkaline to counteract this problem.
TDS are a different kettle of fish. It means the amount of salts/minerals dissolved in the water.

Also, if you have a high PH, does this mean you have high TDS (Total dissolved solids)?

For example our town water is about 7.8 to 8.5 PH. But the water is only 80 PPM.

So I use rain water for most of my orchids Except Cymbidium's, they are tuff enough to take the alkaline water.
Now if for example it would read 200 PPM, it would make it difficult to add 500 PPM of fertilizer to it.
I am no scientific knowledge of the ins and outs, but it works for.
Cheerio
Ron

[rcb]

I completely agree with Ron and Kevin. But to answer your question, yes white distilled vinegar would lower the pH. In fact it would be the preferred acid to reduce pH.

But it you decide to do this there are two cautions I would add.

First of all, most pH testing apparatus available to the general public is not very accurate. Secondly, it is the pH of the solution available to the plants that matter, and most organic growing media used for orchids like spaghnum and bark reduce the pH of the water as it is added. Remember the water available to the plant is what remains after you run water through the pot.

Again, I've been growing orchids for over 10 years, and I've never bothered with pH.

[elitebettas]

It does matter, It can mean the difference between mediocre and superb plants in my opinion.

[kmarch]

No doubt in some situations. In certain situations it can probably even mean the difference between living and dead plants. But it is possible to grow superb, show and award-winning orchids without delving into pH. And certainly it's possible to enjoy hobby growing and flowering without being concerned about it.

[tansyflower]

Ron,

Out of interest, what is the PH of rainwater (as we only have tank water)?

[fred]

interesting I don't worry about the PH as I use only tank water on my chids
Rain Water

[Ron]

Hi Tansyflower.

Out of interest, what is the PH of rainwater (as we only have tank water)?

I did a test on freshly fallen rainwater collected off a plastic sheet a few years ago. It was about 6.5 and when re-tested about 1 hour later it was about 7.
I did read once about rainwater falling as acid rain (4.5?+) especially around the big citys.
In the country I suppose we have much cleaner air so 6.5 would be reasonable.
It is suppose to settle around 7 after it has stood for a while!
My present water is off a tile (cement roof) and another is of a plastic type fiberglass roof.
These I have not tested but the seedling and bigger Orchids love it.

Good growing
Ron

[LouisW]

Elitebettas, What do you grow your plants in? If you grow in bark or other organic media you shouldnt worry because such materials provide a buffer that should neutralize small extremes in pH. If you grow in an inert media such as S/H or pure lava rock than you have to be a little more attentive. I have heard of squeezing a little lemon juice into the water (maybe 1/2 tsp per gallon?). The lemon juice is not only acidic but it is also a buffer that will stabilize the pH. Perhaps a buffer will be a better option than simply adding calculated amounts of acids or bases. Again if you grow in bark or choir or charcoal than the media should do the job for you.

That said, I dont really worry about pH and I grow in S/H where plants are said to be most sensitive. I will not go so far as to say that pH does not matter but I beleive that any small (probably tiny) differences in growth and flower would probably not be worth the extra effort.

[elitebettas]

I see your points,
Louis W, I'm concerned about the vandas and my mounts which are essentially bare root. I've started paying attention to the PH and TDS of the water and notice a difference in the quality of new roots~existing roots started to become a bit dessicated. All other growing factors are good-tested the water and found it to be very very alkaline and TDS very high...we'll see, thank goodness for RO and MSU lol

[FLBob]

I only worry about PH in that what's in the water can collect in the pot or on the plant over time, so say you have slightly alkaline water, over time the dissolved minerals will collect in your potting medium creating a higher PH in the root zone. The issue also works in the other direction where a slightly acid water can cause a buildup and turn your medium sour.
You can compensate by your choice of fertilizer.

[LouisW]

Oh Vandas, no media, ok. Well if you feel that roots are sub par, and all other cultural needs are met then give pH a try. If in a year or so you see better roots then ignore all the opinions on this thread. No matter what people say, what works for you is the right way. Let us know if you have noteworthy results.

[wiseasthewind]

never seen this forum before...i was just thinkin about growin some orchids and im doing some research....i am blown away by the fact that some of you gys dont care about the ph of your water,...offcourse this is largely irrelevant for rain water fed plants, but seriously, you spend time on a chat room about orchids you love them that much, but dont ph check their water?..

the original poster knows ...just spend 2 pounds on a simple kit or buy a wand from ebayfor a tenner?...ph up and down is available from ebay, but natural sbstitutes are fine.....it only takes 4 minutes!!!

PS i know nothing of orchid growing

[jay]

Wiseasthewind - If someone is growing their orchids in bark, then the bark works as a buffer for the Ph to keep it where it should be. Most people don't have extremely high or low Ph coming from their taps.

Since I grow my orchids in S/H, I monitor the Ph because I have no buffer. Otherwise I would not bother.

Welcome to the forum. You should go to the introductions section and say hello. Let us know if you have any questions.

[Stelios]

I am using pond water my self, PH is 7.42 (i test it as the fishes, plants, turtle and bees live in it or drink it). TDS is 285mg/lt (Dec 2008 reading) and i have some cyanophyta spirulina in there as well.
My orchids are really enjoying it.

It might be irrelevant...: the bathtube is not connected to the house plumming, the water from the bathtube is running in the garden and waters a significant part of it. We use enviromental friendly care products like hand made green soap (made by olive oil and ash) that are high biodegratable and dead skin/ hair is also good food for the plants.

[Ron]

Hi wiseast

i am blown away by the fact that some of you gys dont care about the ph of your water,.

..
I do not think this correct.
Most of the orchids I grow get water/ potting mix corrections.If anyone uses chemical fertiliser the potting mix will become very acid over a season or so.
A few years ago I was having a problem with my Cymbidiums after changing brands of Fertilizer.
Tap water was around 8.+ph but when I tested the Cymbidium mix it was as low as 4.6ph.
I had a been "advised" to put on a spoon full of lime in spring per 8 inch pot.
Some thing had gone wrong!!!
My mix was treated bark of 6-10mm.
After a discussion with a nursery mate we worked out the problem.
Because of the openness of the potting mix, the amount of lime was not enough to last a full season.
To solve this problem I now put in about 3/4 a handfull per 8 inch pot. All done in spring.
Problem solved and never seen my Cymbidiums grow so well.
As amateurs growers we do not often spend the time and effort to check PH first when thing go wrong
were as in a garden situation a hand full per sq yard per year would be enough without retesting all the time. It does not flush out!