water and fertilizer question, please

[brit6v]

Hi,
I have been watering with "Dyna-Gro Liquid Grow 7-9-5 plant food" and distilled water weakly-weekly (1/4 teas. per gallon) for several months. I was recently told that if I would like to continue using this fertilizer, I should raise the pH level. I know next to nothing about water, PH and fertilizer.....so could someone please tell me how to raise a PH level?
Thanks in advance,
Vicki

[jay]

Before you attempt to raise the Ph level, you need to know where you are. You can get Ph strips from a hydroponic store or possibly a pet store in the fish section. Then it also depends on the type of plant. Some Paphs like a higher Ph since they are used to growing on limestone cliffs, which buffer the Ph. Others will like a more acidic Ph.

My practices will differ from yours because I have no buffer (organic material). I grow my orchids in S/H and keep the Ph around 6.0.

If you do find that you need to raise or lower your Ph, there are several additives that you can get at a local hydroponic store to do so. You just add the drops, stir, test. Repeat until you reach the desired Ph.

[brit6v]

Hi Jay,
I'm sorry, but I'm still totally confused. I most likely don't know enough about water to even know what I'm talking about: I thought the PH level of distilled water that can be bought in gallon containers at grocery (etc.) stores are all the same, or do I need to test distilled to see what the PH is? Isn't distilled and RO called Pure Water? Honest....I know almost NOTHING about water.

I have mostly catts and phals (several are noids)....3 dens, 1 mtssa, and zygoneria adelaide meadows.

I grow about 1/2 of my plants in S/H, too.

Back to PH levels: I know our home tap water is approx. 7....maybe I should go that route instead of distilled and continue to use the same fert. that I am now. ???

Anyway, thanks for your advice.....I appreciate your help.
Vicki

Originally Posted by jay

Before you attempt to raise the Ph level, you need to know where you are. You can get Ph strips from a hydroponic store or possibly a pet store in the fish section. Then it also depends on the type of plant. Some Paphs like a higher Ph since they are used to growing on limestone cliffs, which buffer the Ph. Others will like a more acidic Ph.

My practices will differ from yours because I have no buffer (organic material). I grow my orchids in S/H and keep the Ph around 6.0.

If you do find that you need to raise or lower your Ph, there are several additives that you can get at a local hydroponic store to do so. You just add the drops, stir, test. Repeat until you reach the desired Ph.

[Myxamatosis]

pure water (distilled and RO'd, the kind you get from the store) has a pH of 7.0 (other wise it is not pure). There should be no reason to raise / lower the pH due to continual use of the same fertilizer. The only thing would be if fertilizer was leaving a salt residue. In which case you just flush it out with the same distilled water. Also, switching up the fertilizer is a good idea. I use 20-20-20 for non flowering plants.

[jay]

Vicki, I see where the confusion is. I am sorry that I didn't address this issue. It is not the water you are using before you add fertilizer, that should be around 7. It is after you add the fertilizer. I use R.O. water that has a Ph of 7 and a TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) of about 10. I then add MSU type fertilizer which drops the Ph to around 5.8-6.2. Before you start adjusting the the Ph you want to test if as you would water it, with the fertilizer. Then if you need you can adjust.

Generally speaking, the best range for hydroponics is 5.5-6.0. This is a general rule and should not be taken as a blanket for everything. My Phals, Catts, and Dends are all watered with a Ph of around 6.0. I don't have any Mtssa or Zygos and am unsure of what they would like. Sorry.

I hope this helps clear it up a little. If not let me know and I will try to answer any questions.

[Ron]

Hi,
I have been watering with "Dyna-Gro Liquid Grow 7-9-5 plant food" and distilled water weakly-weekly (1/4 teas. per gallon) for several months. I was recently told that if I would like to continue using this fertilizer, I should raise the pH level.

.

Generally speaking this is all to much for the average grower like you and me.
Unless agressive fertilizering, I would not worry to much.
A application of common garden lime,about 1 teaspoon over the top of the potting mix 2 times a year will sove the problem. Just water it in.
I never bother, having done it a few times and not much difference.

In big growing plants like cymbidiums I put about 1/2 a handful on each 8 inch pot in spring.
This keeps the mix sweet and the PH about 6 to 6.5.
Just use a cheep hobby fish keepers PH meter/strips.
No big hassle.
Other green house plants pose no problem if flushed regularly!

Hope it helps in a way
Cheerio
Ron

[brit6v]

Thank you so much, everyone! After reading all of your advice thoroughly (at least 3 times, by the way lol)....I really think I understand what's going on now, and basically what I should do. I'll figure out a way to keep my orchids healthy and happy, or else! lol
Thanks again,
Vicki

[PhalPal]

Vicki most of us never worry about the pH of our water when growing in some sort of media. Whoever laid this on you wasn't being fair to you, and unless you are striving for show quality perfect orchids I wouldn't give pH another thought.

It becomes very important if you grow hydrophonically, like Jay, but not for the vast majority of growers. In fact, most of us use tap water and whatever fertilizer suits us for the day!

[rcb]

One thing to remember is the fertilizer itself causes the water to become more acidic. So if using "pure" water, which does not have natural buffering capabilities, when you add fertilizer it does go very acidic. Most orchids like slightly acidic.

Most fertilizers are actually designed to be used with tap water, which is usually slightly basic and has buffering capabilities. Except for the MSU fert which has two versions, one for tap water and one for RO water.
Don't forget the medium itself affects the pH as well. For example both spaghnum moss and bark is acidic.

To be honest, I've been growing orchids for over 10 years, and I've never checked my pH. As long as it isn't very basic it should be ok.

[brit6v]

Thanks to all of you again. I appreciate you taking time to explain this to me very well. Here's what I'm going to do....I hope this is ok: I'm going to water with distilled water and MSU fertilizer for pure water. By the way, the guy in my "initial-question-post" who told me that I needed to change the ph grows mostly semi-hydroponically, but also grows some orchids "traditionally" (bark, etc.)
Thanks once more,
Vicki

[jerrymeola]

This is an area where for the hobbyist the advice is more difficult than the amount of good it can do.

I have a chemical engineering background and from the years of raising tropical fish and then orchids I have adjusted ph for 30 years and it is not worth the effort.

Even when you adjust, the water in the SE US is usually very alkalilne (high ph over 7 which is neutral). It buffers the water and even if you make the water go acid (under 7) it reverts to alkaline in a couple of days.

Distilled water and RO water are very expensive if for more than a few plants.

Surprisingly I find the advice to raise the PH to be exactly opposite to the recommendations of my agricultural extension service.

Plants absorb fertilizer better when the water is acidic. Commercially we use expensive injectors to add acid to the water supply used to water nursery stock. Since it is added exactly at the time the water is used it works. But you can not get consistent results manually.

These comments are for general knowledge and I still sugggest to use your water unadjusted. The adjustments are never consistent and the plant will do better adjusting to one water condition.

[11Orchid126]

I love Dyna-Gro Grow and Dyna-Gro Bloom, and use them regularly without worrying about the ph. You might consider also using Dyna-Gro Protekt, which is a product that strengthens and greens up leaves. It also adjusts the ph to be a tiny bit more acidic.

[brit6v]

Thank you very, very much Jerry. I admit that I have had quite a case of "brain overload".

I really do appreciate the good advice I have gotten from you and everyone else. This is a great board, a great bunch of people, and I'm proud to be a co-member.

Vicki

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

This is an area where for the hobbyist the advice is more difficult than the amount of good it can do.

I have a chemical engineering background and from the years of raising tropical fish and then orchids I have adjusted ph for 30 years and it is not worth the effort.

Even when you adjust, the water in the SE US is usually very alkalilne (high ph over 7 which is neutral). It buffers the water and even if you make the water go acid (under 7) it reverts to alkaline in a couple of days.

Distilled water and RO water are very expensive if for more than a few plants.

Surprisingly I find the advice to raise the PH to be exactly opposite to the recommendations of my agricultural extension service.

Plants absorb fertilizer better when the water is acidic. Commercially we use expensive injectors to add acid to the water supply used to water nursery stock. Since it is added exactly at the time the water is used it works. But you can not get consistent results manually.

These comments are for general knowledge and I still sugggest to use your water unadjusted. The adjustments are never consistent and the plant will do better adjusting to one water condition.

[brit6v]

Thank you for your help, Renee!!
Vicki

Originally Posted by rcb

One thing to remember is the fertilizer itself causes the water to become more acidic. So if using "pure" water, which does not have natural buffering capabilities, when you add fertilizer it does go very acidic. Most orchids like slightly acidic.

Most fertilizers are actually designed to be used with tap water, which is usually slightly basic and has buffering capabilities. Except for the MSU fert which has two versions, one for tap water and one for RO water.
Don't forget the medium itself affects the pH as well. For example both spaghnum moss and bark is acidic.

To be honest, I've been growing orchids for over 10 years, and I've never checked my pH. As long as it isn't very basic it should be ok.

[lmartiny]

I too admit that this Ph talk put me in the twilight zone. Too much info for me. But what I saw is that orchids like some acidity? Mine are outside and get doses of oak leaves from the trees. Thus acidity. Correct? I pick some of it out. But it is a natural cause and effect outside. Does it matter?

[patticake]

I use fertilizers that are formulated for orchids. Most of them have nitrogen that doesn't contain urea. I've heard that this is the way to go. So far, so good! I use tap water, but we have pretty good drinking water here.

BTW- brit6v, Good to have you with us! You should go to the introductions section and say hi there! I'm sure the other geeks would love to greet you as well!

[Myxamatosis]

one thing that you MIGHT have to watch out for is if your water is too hard. I have the world best tap water with probably pounds of calcium in it. so i have to use bottled, or otherwise not tap water to prevent fertilizer burns to my 'chids because of the calcium. You will know if you have this kind of bad water if you always see white crystals / crud around your pots that form in short amounts of time. if you have a water softener you won't have that much calcium.

If you really need to know about pH of your water, call your utilities company. but the general thought is that unless it is extreme, don't fool with it.

[CulpableCaptive]

I have a three stage water filter attached to my kitchen sink which is the water I use for the orchids. After adding the fertilizer (of which I use more than one) the pH is between 5.8 and 6.0. Where I want it.
If I use water directly from the tap the pH is too high - usually above 7.2.
Just by using the filtered water and the fertilizer of choice - on any given day - I end up up with a lower pH. I don't fuss with pH adjusting chemicals but I do try to keep the pH low by the water source and fertilizer combo.
Since I also have an aquarium background and grow almost all of my plants in passive-hydro, I get the pH test 'strips' and liquid test kits from the local pet shop. The pH 'strips' are less accurate than the liquid pH kits.
pH test 'strips' measure in increments of 6.0, 6.5, 7.0, 7.5, etc.
Liquid pH kit measurements are in increments of 5.8, 6.0, 6.2, 6.4, etc., so are therefore more accurate. I use both 'kits'.
As long as the pH is 6.0 or very close, when I apply the watering solution, I don't worry much about it.

I 'flush' the aggregate whenever I remember - for me, it is not a big deal how often I remember to partake in this task. When I water, I always water to the point of overflow so I am flushing the medium a bit with each watering. And if I have a little more time I soak the pots in a slightly larger watertight container when I water - causing a semi-flush.
In spite of what I have said I do keep it simple.