Species vs. Hybrid ??

[lmartiny]

I had recently posted a picture under species (guessing) and it was a hybrid. (or vice versa, can't remember) I have looked this up in two of my orchid books, trying to learn what is a species and what is a a hybrid.

The reading got a little heavy for me. (when it got to variants, intergeneric and complex I gave up)

From what I understand the species are just the various types of plants. I.e. phal, onc, catt. A hybrid is when there has been a cross. (?)
A species is written in italics, a hybrid is captalized with no italics and no single quotes. Cultivars have the single quotes.
So if a tag says Lc. Little Pirate Lc. Cariad's Mini-Quinee x Lc. Pirate King that is a hybrid? (in this case crossing two hybrids?)
Or a tag says Blira. Marfitch 'Howards Dream' that would be a hybrid cultivar?

Also, what is Blira? I could not find that abbreviation in my books. I did find Lc. which I also didn't know. Laeliocattleya

What is an example of a species tag. Just a name in italics?
And a noid is just an untagged or generically tagged plant?

I'm just trying to get some basics down. I'll never be good with all of the naming. But it does seem important to many of you so I like to list the info and be somewhat accurate.

I would appreciate any input and corrections. Or simplifications of this info.
In basic laymen's terms please.

Or, if I do put something into the wrong topic, will you forgive me?

Thanks. I appreciate the help.

P.S. NOID seems easiest

[mayres]

Here is a good abbreviation index for orchids at this site - Intergeneric Orchid Hybrid Abbreviations
Simplified definition off the top of my head.....I'm sure someone else will pour forth something more sophisticated......
Species - type of unique plant that grows naturally in the wild
Hybrids - cross of two different species initially (some of which occur naturally) and then crosses of hybrids with species and hybrids with hybrids - all technically hybrids.....

[brookn]

Mike said it! Also you can tell a species by the way it is written. Species are written without caps, such as Phalaenopsis bellina, or Dendrobium kingianum. Hybrids are written in caps, such Phalaenopsis Brother Little Yellowboy, or Oncidium Sharry Baby. The parts in italics are cultivars.

[lmartiny]

Thanks Mayres. That's basically it from what I read. I will check out the abbrev site. Thanks.

[lmartiny]

Thanks Brookn. So I think I've got the basics down.

[Anton]

The thing to remember about naturally occurring hybrids in the wild is that the hybrid's name is still in lower case, where as man made crosses tend to have the name capitalised.

[kmarch]

lmartiny, It sounds like there are 2 things here confusing you. 1) what is a species vs hybrid and 2) how these different names and name parts are expressed. I'll start with the first part first (and I apologize in advance to the botanists for what will probably be a gross oversimplification.):

What is a species?
A species is a group (population) of plants that occurs naturally, in nature. There is a lot of debate and disagreement about the definition of the term "species" and the criteria by which something is judged a species but for the purposes of this discussion, it is probably enough to say a species is a population of naturally occurring (in this case) orchids that have similar characteristics.

What is a hybrid?
A hybrid is the product of a cross between 2 or more different species. There are 2 different types of hybrid, a natural hybrid and an artificial hybrid.

A natural hybrid occurs in nature without the intervention of a human. Probably one of the most well-known natural hybrids is Guaranthe x guatamalensis which is a naturally occurring cross between G skinneri and G aurantiaca. The "X" in the name indicates it is a natural hybrid.

An artificial hybrid is a cross that would not normally occur in the wild and that is made in cultivation with human intervention. There are 2 kinds of artificial hybrids: primary hybrids and complex hybrids.

A primary hybrid is a hybrid made from 2 species. For example:
any species X with a different species = a primary hybrid
ex. Paph rothschildianum x Paph philippinense = Paph St Swithin (a primary hybrid)

A complex hybrid is a hybrid in wich either one or both of its parents are also hybrids. For example:
any hybrid X any species or any other hybrid = complex hybrid
ex. Paph Supersuk x Paph Raisin Pie = Paph Hsinying Alien (a complex hybrid)

Species and hybrid names are expressed differently. I've written a long article on that subject for the forum titled Orchid Nomenclature.

If after pouring through this info you have more questions, let us know!

[jerrymeola]

Lynne

A problem you are having is that the Howard's Dream name tag did not print well it is Bllra not Blira short for Beallara

It is an Oncidium Intergeneric Bllra. Marfitch (Mtssa. Charles M. Fitch x Oda. Fremar)
and Mtssa is a cross of Miltonia and Brassia

A problem I see in several threads is the inability of members to find 'common' orchids because they are using the newest name and the dealers still use the older tags. It is much too expensive to re-tag millions of plants and redesign web sites because a scientist changes a name. It is at a point where you have to search several names to find the reference for which you are searching.

[slippery_biscuit]

Thanks for that viewpoint, Jerry. This is a hobby for me, and as you say the flowers/plants come first. I do want to know and be aware of the naming protocol, and the changes being made. I think a lot of us just don't want to feel ignorant or "bad" 'cause we aren't up to speed with it all the time. And further more, I don't feel that way and haven't really read where anyone does.

That is a backhanded compliment to this site; new information and ideas being presented for us to use as we see fit.

[JLu]

"A problem I see in several threads is the inability of members to find 'common' orchids because they are using the newest name and the dealers still use the older tags. It is much too expensive to re-tag millions of plants and redesign web sites because a scientist changes a name. It is at a point where you have to search several names to find the reference for which you are searching."

So what are you saying? The scientists are the bad guys here? Not the orchid vendors who fail their customers by not even knowing the names of their merchandise or even in some cases the very protocol of names?

I wouldn't buy a TV set from a guy who called it a washing machine?

[lmartiny]

I appreciate all of the input. Again, I'm just trying to learn some basics (since I had posted in the wrong spot).
I'm happy knowing what kind of orchid I have, i.e. onc., phal., catt., and how to care for it and maybe see some blooms.
But I also want to share tags and names for those that have a higher level of knowledge and interest, and try to post in the right section. But if I do err, well, forgive me (and I hope its not a lot of work moving it for the moderator)
I detected frustration in the words of the authors in the books I have, regarding the renaming of plants. So it is apparently an issue for many.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by lmartiny

But if I do err, well, forgive me (and I hope its not a lot of work moving it for the moderator).

It takes me about half a dozen clicks and about 15-20 seconds (if that much) to move a misplaced post so it's no bother at all.

And don't worry about making errors. The forum exists to learn, there's all sorts of experience and knowledge levels among our members and everyone is happy to help. None of us know it all and we're pretty much all happy to learn together. So don't be shy about posting. Dive in with both feet!

Can I get a ?

[brookn]

Hee hee Kevin.

[lmartiny]

Thanks Kevin. Yes, I give a woot!!