soaking phal's?

[Sarahke]

Goodafternoon,

I'm new to this forum, hereby I'd like to say hello

After reading several pages of the newbie questions I came to the conclusion that I'm probably an under-waterer. I don't soak my phals, give them a bit of water from top down every week- 2 weeks. They stand in front of the window, the window only has direct sunlight from 'bout 4pm 'till the sun goes down. I live in Antwerp, Belgium.

The leafs of my phals look rather leathery though the areal roots got green points and two of my 4 phals got a basal keiki (since their last repot +/- 4 months ago, did that 'cause the keiki?).

Now i'm thinking it might be a good idea to soak them, since only one of them bloomed again since i got them 2-3 years ago. May I put them all together in the sink for half an hour or so? Or does it 'cause troubles if you put them all together in the same water?

All feedback is appreciated, since they look rather sad atm.

Greetz
Sarah

[kmarch]

Before you change any of your watering habits, I'd like to ask a few questions:

1) How long have you had these Phals and/or how long have you bee watering them in this way?
2) Are they growing for you?
3) Are they blooming for you?
4) When you repotted, did oyu have any rotted roots?

I ask all these questions because most of us water many (most?) of our orchids using what you call the "top down" method, simply watering the top of the pot and letting it drain out the bottom. This may be perfectly find for you. If your plants are healthy and happy, I would not be fast to change anything.

[mehitabel]

Hi, Sarah. I have a couple of points you might consider:

1. In the case of blooming, the advice most often given by specialists about inducing blooming in phals is *increase the light by about 50%*. Gradually, of course.

IMO, the most common mistake people make when they start with orchids indoors is to take the advice to give "bright shade" too literally. The authors of this advice are probably talking about greenhouse conditions, where yes: phals will be shaded from direct overhead sun by some kind of shadecloth that screens out some % of the sun's rays. They are still getting some % the available sun, tho. AND they are getting the slanting rays of the sun from the east from sunup, or in the west til sundown.

Point is, they are getting a lot more light in "bright shade" in a greenhouse than they are getting on a table 5 feet from a window in a "bright" room in someone's house. Indoors, they are shaded from direct overhead sun by your roof. They *only* get the sun that slants indoors. That can be too hot, too, but there are remedies for that.

I wasted my first year of growing orchids followiing this "bright shade" stuff, and learned by trial and error that phals can profit from a lot more light than you think. (NOT direct hot overhead sun, of course).

You can tell if they are getting too much light by simply feeling the leaves-- if the leaves start to feel noticeably warm, that is too much light. As long as the leaves feel cool, you can increase the light.

2. About watering. You say you give them "a bit" of water. Phals need a *lot* of water poured thru at one time when watering. Then let the medium dry out til almost, but not quite, dry before watering again. "Overwatering" refers to watering *too often*, not to watering too much at one time.

The reason for pouring a lot of water thru is to flush out any salts that have accumulated in the medium. Phal roots are specialized to taking in small amount of nutrients, so they are very sensitive to any accumulated salts, and will be damaged if the salts accumulate.

The best advice I can give you is to do some reading about phal culture. There are some excellent culture notes at a couple of phal specialist's websites. A few minutes reading those will repay you handsomely in better growth and blooms on your phals. Also in confidence in what you are doing.

[Ed. by kmarch: Go to the orchid culture section of this forum or to AOS | Home to get information on the cultural needs (light, water, temperatures, etc.) of phals.]

Good luck!

[janet_a]

if the leaves are leathery and the plants are growing keikis, i'd think they're a little stressed. increase your watering *a bit*. don't flood them all at once. just put the plant in the sink, water it there, let it drain and put it back. i wouldn't leave the plants soaking in any amount of water for any appreciable amount of time. try not to share water--if one plant has some sort of ickiness, it could spread to the others.

but whatever changes you make, make them gradually and see how the plants respond.

[kid a]

I personally soak my plants because it is what works for me and my plants are thriving. What may work for one person may not always for another though. I have have few plants (19) so soaking these is borderline manageable as far as time is concerned. I like to soak them because I frequently go out of town and have a very busy life and find that I water less often when I provide a good soaking anywhere from 5-20 minutes. After I soak I always flush the mix in each plant. Top watering for me has not worked out very well just because I have had difficulties wetting the mix evenly and find that I use less water when soaking each plant. My water quality is very poor and highly softened so I buy reverse osmosis water, soaking saves me money. Although it is not recommended by many growers I do share soaking water to save time and money. I soak all of my seedlings together at the same time in a tray. I soak my phals together. I soak my neos and my catts separately but using the same water, adding more when needed. I always soak the catts last. I also use one of those gigantic turkey basters to help flush and make sure they are thoroughly soaked. (That probably sounds funny, but it is very helpful and useful) Sharing water between plants can like before mentioned spread virus, disease, and pests though. But sharing is one way I try to conserve and save money and time.

[Sarahke]

Thanks for the explinations.

To answer all the questions I've read above...

to Kmarch:
1) 3 i got for almost 3 years now, 1 i got since november (replacement of one that died or i got killed as u wish ) I water them this way since a good year
2) The one that i got since november is doing fine, not growing atm, his flower stems just dried up so time to cut them down.
My yellow phal was able to keep his two flower stems and both stems got a keiki with roots
My two others with basal keiki are not doing as i would like, wrinkeld small leathery leaves, though new leaves are in seight
3) nope they don't bloom at all. Last year one of the two (that now got a basal keiki) bloomed very shortly with 4 flowers
4) when I repotted i did had some rotten roots on the two that now got a basal keiki

to Missan:
I did do a lot of reading, but on the net i found a lot of contrairy stuff, this forum looked very helpfull to me, reason i posted my -maybe- silly question in the newbie section

My window is facing North West, leaves don't feel warm

Greetz
Sarah

[kmarch]

Sarahke,

Since you've had most fo them for3 years, if your current watering method was bad or wrong, your plants would be dead by now. If you leaves are healthy and firm, they are getting enough water. I recommend staying with what has worked.

Web info is contradictory and confusing and usually very unreliable which is why I constantly refer people to the AOS for cultural info AOS | Home, to excellent books, and which is why we work hard to make sure the sultural info we give out here is reliable and accurate, and not just more of what "they" say on the web.

Your questions are not silly! It is important to ask them and to learn. It is also important for other forum members to remember that people come here for help and it is necessary to be polite and helpful to new members.

Originally Posted by janet_a

if ... the plants are growing keikis, i'd think they're a little stressed. increase your watering *a bit*. .

Maybe. It is incorrect to think that a keiki is a sign of a problem. Especially with Phals, this is usually a normal thing, not a sign of stress or trouble.

[mehitabel]

Just MO, but a NW window is probably not enough light for blooming phals. A little light will come in in late afternoon in summer, but in winter, it's really very meager light.

If your plants aren't getting enough light, increasing the water may pitch them over the edge into a serious decline. Be cautious and learn more before you change anything.

Light, water and fertilizer have to be in balance. More light, more water. Less light, less water.

Your plants will benefit from supplemental light. Please take the time to read the discussion of light for phals at Bedford Orchids.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by mehitabel

Just MO, but a NW window is probably not enough light for blooming phals.

Phals are low light orchids. This should be enough light for them.

[psyc1210]

Sarahke where are you located?

I have all my orchids in a window facing ESE. It seems to be enough light for mine, as they are all seemingly happy. However, I have a Phal gigantea in a window facing WNW, so it's similar direction to yours...and it seems to be doing well. It's growing. So the NW window may be enough light for your Phals..but the best way to find that out is to get a light meter.

[psyc1210]

and I forgot to add, I run water through all of my pots. I occasionally soak them in diluted worm tea, but normally I just run water through.

[missann]

Hey, I was the first person to answer your question, and it was brought to my attention that I sounded like a jerk.. I am sorry for that. I didn't mean for it to sound that way. I will see if I can remember what I told you if you didn't have a chance to read it.

I reccommend the book "Ortho's All About Orchids" it is very informative and covers some very basic information like the questions you are asking. I would reccommend any new orchid owner reads a few books. It is easy to ask questions in a place like this, but I personally think that having all that knowledge at my fingertips where I can access it at any time and it is all in one place.

It sounds like your orchids are not getting enough water. If you are watering once a week, step it up to twice a week, wait a month or two, and if they still aren't improving, then step it up to three times a week. Wait another month or two.

I would not reccommend soaking your orchids all together. Sharing water, cutting tools, unsterilized pots etc, is liken to sharing needles with a junky because diseases, including viruses can be spread this way. Remember to sterilize your cutting tools etc between plants.

Um...again, sorry I sounded like a jerk. I sometimes forget that people have to be very careful when typing because text cannot convey mood, tone of voice etc.

Oh yeah, personally, I would not soak them. I think soaking for any other purpose besides disease treatment can get a novice like you or me into trouble. It is waaay to easy to forget that your plant is in the water because the phone rings or something else happens and you get distracted. Just water enough so that a lot of water runs out of the pots when you water. I always let the water run through for at least one minute, and I have never had the accident of built up fertilizer or water salts accumulating in my pots-and we have really hard water here.

[missann]

Oh yeah, there are a lot of orchid growing videos on you tube. I had a link to one, but when people clicked on it, it said that the video is down, but if you go to you tube and search for "professor steve klitzing" or just google "steve klitzing" it will bring up a video that has some good info about fertilizers and some controversial info about styrofoam peanuts.

[Sarahke]

Thanks for the advices, i'll keep you guys posted...

To Missan:
I did read ur post, ur forgiven, don't worry 'bout it

I gave plants bit more water now, going to observe if they r improving or not. Not that in my opinion they can get any worse, 'cause the leaves don't look healthy on the 2 with a basal keiki. I fear if the leaves are completely wrinkeld and the plant took all nutrician from the leaves they will turn yellow and fall off... And with no leaves, the plants will not live...

Greetz
Sarah