The stuff "they" don't tell you...is in a book?

[missann]

What is the stuff they don't tell you? Who is they?
These are serious questions..is there stuff that orchid people won't tell you when you ask them directly?

I have seen a few threads with this title, and I think the info you are lookking for is in BOOKS. I see A LOT of questions here that my meager, 7 genus orchid book can answer. When I bought my first orchid, I bought a book right along with it because I have always heard that orchids are finicky. THEY ARE if you don't learn anything about them.
Also--to those who have made the same titled threads: What is the stuff they don't tell you?
Books have all the info in one place, unlike the internet. IMHO.

The book I have, buy the way, is Ortho's All About Orchids. I think I bought it at lowe's, home depot, or wal-mart. Um. I was also scanning through a MIRACLE GRO and some other orchid book at fred myer last night, and they seem like they have a lot of the same info and pictures that my book contains.
Also-I find it super nice to have a book that I can put little tags in, and highlight really important info like:

Don't repot until after flowering because that is when the orchid grows it's roots-also WATER LESS to prevent any cut/broken roots that you may have missed will not ROT and kill the plant. ALSO the LACK OF WATER makes the plant grow more roots.

I would strongly encourage anyone who is new (or old) to this hobby to pick up a book. Read it all the way through. I am a big "know it all" and I retain tons of information, but I always re-read my book every summer and find out stuff I didn't know, is now relevant to me, or whatever.

[jay]

Choosing the right time to repot will also depend on what type of culture you are using. If you are switching from a traditional bark or bark medium to a S/H LECA, then the best time to repot is right after a flowering when the roots are growing. The reason for this is that the roots have to adapt to the new mix/environment. There are actual differences in the roots that adapt to S/H. This kind of information will not be in a book since there is not a book that details the S/H culture for orchids.

I don't mean to contradict what you just said, but I want to make sure if there are any members thinking about switching to S/H that they understand that this is actually the best time to repot into S/H. I don't think there is an exact and always application for anything in orchids.

[janet_a]

i've read the ortho book too, and there is another interpretation to just about everything in there. if you get 10 orchid people together and ask 1 question, you will get 12 answers--and they will likely all be right.

the inet is a good place for quick questions, especially if you're in the "pre-book" phase. i think it was a couple years after i started messing with these weeds that i bought any books--and they've been only mildly helpful. (pretty to look at though. )

personally i find the best information to be when i post something like "the following is happening to my plant--thoughts?" and a dozen people chime back with similar (or different) stories; i find that much more useful than the generalizations in most of the books....

[patticake]

Books are "the best"! But, there is nothing like conversing with someone who has experience. I have several books that I bought when I got my first chids. Another great source is the library! I'm lucky enough to live near a few good sized ones and can take out books for free!! I love to browse through them at night when I'm getting ready to go to sleep. It's very comforting...

[solay]

I love books but sometimes get lazy to actually pick it up to read it. I only have 2 orchid books for now and dozens of gardening, cooking, sewing, and crafts books. The problem is finding time to actually read them all.

plus the forum is just a fun way to chat and learn with others. I think both play a role in successful orchid growing.

[myorchid]

Books can be helpful. I tried growing (killing) orchids several years ago. When I wanted to start again, I bought "Orchids for Dummies" and found it to be very helpful as I got my orchids.

Since being on the forum I have learned so much more! Experience is a great learning tool!

I like being able to use both books and personal experiences.

[jay]

Don't get me wrong, I own several books about orchids that I refer to on a regular basis. I also have books on hydroponics. I find myself going to one then the other to compare notes. I love doing google searches as I find more information that way than I do from the books.

Since there are so many different genera, species, and methods of cultivation, I find it hard to say that there is one book that has all the information. This is especially true when you start talking about hydroponics and orchids.

[made4engineering]

I think that orchid books found in common places (e.g. the grocery store, Home Depot) are only good for growing orchids found in common places. If you go out of your way to find a Lepanthes calodictyon, then you will need to go out of your way to find suitable information on it. Also, I think that beginners wanting to become expert growers who grow non-common orchids should be wary of the sweeping generalizations that any book that isn't species specific makes.

[brookn]

I prefer Baker's culture sheets for my species. I think that to learn to grow orchids, you need to grow them, I like hands-on experience. Oh, and I became a member here.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by missann

What is the stuff they don't tell you? Who is they?

Actually 'they' usually are the book authors. As books are generally written by one or two people being pressured by the publishers to make whatever they say short and interesting, the info in books is often biased and lacking the really useful detail needed to take you from being able to grow orchids to being able to grow them well. In this case you can usually get advice from local growers who will sort any issues out.

Originally Posted by missann

is there stuff that orchid people won't tell you when you ask them directly?

Sometimes, yes. Orchid growers are just people. Some are helpful and happy to share what works for them and are often eager to hear what successes you've had on the chance they can improve their culture. Others are overly competitive @*&#$% *%#$@ ^$@# $@#%*$'s who don't want to share info in case you get better results. IME the latter are in the minority and are best avoided.

Originally Posted by missann

I have seen a few threads with this title, and I think the info you are lookking for is in BOOKS. I see A LOT of questions here that my meager, 7 genus orchid book can answer.

There are two issues here. One is what 'they actually don't tell you'. The other is 'what they do tell you but Google won't'.
I have a number of orchid books that I refer to regularly but as Jay said the info in any one book is incomplete and even if you had a large library there'd still no doubt be gaps. While books are a good place to start finding information and no doubt much more detailed than the web, there are still things that can only be found out by talking to local growers (+ some trial and error). eg minimum/maximum tolerable temperatures, humidity and light, appropriate mixes for your conditions, how to adjust them and how to judge watering them, playing with macro- and micronutrients, new cultural trends, how to grow orchids the books list as difficult etc, etc etc. You can't really answer what aren't they telling you because their is so much info that can only be gleaned from other's personal experiences and so much of it is dependant upon you own conditions.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by janet_a

i've read the ortho book too, and there is another interpretation to just about everything in there. if you get 10 orchid people together and ask 1 question, you will get 12 answers--and they will likely all be right.

While it's frustrating, ultimately that's what you want, isn't it? From the 12 answers, you piece together what they have in common, which is generally a good base to start from, and from the rest of the info you figure out what you can work with is what is irrelevant and then use a bit of trial and error to fine tune it to your conditions. That way you get an idea not only how to do something but why you're doing it so that when things go wrong you don't always need to run to somebody else for the answer. Otherwise, how do you learn to improve your culture.

[evagentry]

Good reply Andrew, you stated it well, this is what works for me also.

[psyc1210]

I still do not own a single orchid book. I only search the internet for the information I want/need, and come here as well to get advice

[Orchidementia]

I own an orchid book, and it's been quite helpful. I plan to get more, but I like books

I think some of the 'things they don't tell you' include 1. many orchids are easier to grow than they let on, 2. orchids actually do like to be watered and 3. many orchids are sturdy SOBs. But that's me - I think everyone has their own set of stuff they figure out/learn elsewhere.

[exasperatus2002]

I know how you feel. I used to manage a petshop and used to hate it when someone would slap down some serious $ on everything but never get a book on the care of the animal in question. Now that I work for the local cable company I have the same issue. People buy a $3k HDTV set but no one reads the owners manual on how to set it up or check to see if hdtv is available in their area. Then get mad at me for them being stupid. They sometimes need a diaper more then my 13 month old daughter.

[mayres]

Many good points.
Another reason for sharing on this forum is that ideal culture of many types of plants will vary to some degree depending upon conditions they are attempting to be grown in. That is why many of us request new members to tell us where they live and if possible what kind of conditions - greenhouse, patio, mounted on trees, etc. Growing a plant in Alaska indoors is probably going to have some different challenges than growing the same plant outdoors in Florida or in a constantly maintained/monitored greenhouse in some other part of the world? I love books too and own a half dozen orchid books, but places like this forum provide an opportunity to find out quickly how people from all over the world are addressing the culture of similar plants - and many times they do indeed approach it differently. Thanks to you all and KEEP IT COMING!

[jerrymeola]

A problem with books and advice is that people assume that there is an answer.

You will often get 12 different opinions when you ask 10 people, because they are all talking from a slightly different set of circumstances and the person listening is not making the fine distinctions.

It could be that all are correct.

Read and listen to everyone and then try to piece the advice to your experience. It takes time but you will eventually get good results.

[kid a]

I like the forum because of the different advice, suggestions, etc. because a book may not give advice for your environment. After hearing what everyone else thinks it makes it easier to understand what is happening and why. But I think I have 6 or so orchids books, I mostly read them for stuff like what temps certain orchids are supposed to do best in, if they are high light or low light or in between, and stuff like that. Books don't always give me an answer that I am looking for though, maybe that's why I have so many, but for the most part I can say they have been helpful for familiarizing myself with different orchid related terms, different types of orchids, and where such and such species came from type stuff.

[jbigio]

books will give you a general answer that will not appliy to everyone. most books say Phals are great starter orchids yet the majority of posts with plants in trouble are Phals. they in my oppion are not for the biginner yet you wont find a book that lists them otherwise.

[JLu]

Well, I agree that books can have some questionable information, but in order to get a book published the author needs to have some credentials that at least look good on paper. I love books and have a pretty decent orchid library. Seldom do I find completely bad advice in a book.

On the internet you have no idea of the qualifications of an author. On forums it's Katy bar the door. I've seen some of the dumbest stuff in the world on internet forums. Forums (regardless of the subject) are miniature versions of My Space where chit chat is the rule, not information. Forums are fun, but if you rely on them for information you are in serious trouble.

If you find some one like a Kevin or Cynthia who are usually right about things you know, then you can rely on them for things you don't know. Otherwise it's crap shoot. I'll take the book.

[jbigio]

sorry you fell that way pitty

[Jirel]

From growing roses, I know that one of the biggest differences in growing the them vs what the books say is your location. Very few rose books tell you how to grow a rose in Florida. I would assume that orchids are the same way. One of the things about this forum is that it lets you get information tailered to your location.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by janet_a

... if you're in the "pre-book" phase. ...

I'm of the opinion that there should be no such thing as a "pre-book" phase. I bought my first orchid and the Ortho book at the same time and when I joined my first orchid society I heard a constant mantra, invest in a few good orchid books and learn the conditions a particular orchid needs before buying it.

There are so many good basic orchid culture books out there, the Ortho book being one of them, and there are a couple of good threads about good culture books here on the forum. As one advances beyond basic cultural requirements for the major genera, and begins to explore their interests in specific genera like Pleurothallids for example, there are lots of genera-specific books that provide a wealth of information on specific genera.

In the orchid world excellent cultural reference books have definitely not yet been replaced by the internet and are still widely available. Check out Timber Press and the AOS bookstore. I think about half of the orchid books I have I bought from one of these two places.

[Jerry Delaney]

I agree that MOST books are written by competent authors, but not all. With out singling out any certain area or individuals, there was a person who wrote some books on a certain genera. He rapidly became an "expert" (in this case, some one who was over 50 miles away from home) and traveled widely giving lectures on the culture of this genera. The final result was that a large number of people followed his advice and wound up killing hundreds of plants. What I have found is that most of my orchids, like their owner, are real dummies! It seems that they NEVER read any of these books. Having spent all my working life as an industrial microbiologist I have found the following to be true in most cases; "It has been proven when you take a biological organism and place it in a carefully controlled environment under carefully controlled conditions, it will behave as it darned well pleases"!!

[cloudswinger]

Originally Posted by jbigio

books will give you a general answer that will not appliy to everyone. most books say Phals are great starter orchids yet the majority of posts with plants in trouble are Phals. they in my oppion are not for the biginner yet you wont find a book that lists them otherwise.

I think it's more that the beginners buy the plant without any real guidance(like a book). The tags on the Phals at Lowes and HD say that they like bright sun and frequent watering. Just that little bit of info alone guarantees that people will have to buy new Phals all the time.

So far, I've been able to borrow about 10 books from the library on orchids. I've found 1 that I'd like to keep as a general reference. The rest are just pretty pictures with the same information. And I found a couple that I want for my specific focus, so they're going to be ordered soon.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Well, to pick on your very first example of something useful in the Ortho book, not ALL orchids root after blooming. It has been my mantra to repot when you see the first flush of new roots from the latest growth. If the particular orchid being repotted is one that blooms 2 or 3 months after rooting, your plant could be shy of roots for a long time if a lot of damage is done in repotting.

Talking about 'bad' books, Someone on another forum pointed out an internet source for orchid info, eHOW. In this source of mis-information, they say to use an anti-bacterial wipe on your tools between cutting orchids. This sends chills up and down my spine. It is virus we are worried about, much more so than bacteria.

[janet_a]

Originally Posted by kmarch

I'm of the opinion that there should be no such thing as a "pre-book" phase.

my first 2 orchids were free. no way was i going to spend any money on anything except some orchid bark. i think i may have eventually d/l'ed an AOS culture sheet---but maybe not.

(both plants still alive, much larger, one in high bud, the other in all out bloom and a hit at my society meeting last weekend. gotta love those NOID phals. )

[articuno75]

A little bit of this and a lot of that. I use whatever I can to expand my knowledge of growing my babies.

But whether it be books or the internet, I'll stick to my Geeks

Experience over rules all!