Den. won't bloom!

[solay]

Hi everyone,
I purchased a Den. Kobai orchid plant about 4 years ago when I first starting growing Cyms. The lady who sold it to me said it would do fine outdoors with my Cyms. It has grown from a 4" pot to several larger pots and keeps growing Keikis that I have planted into smaller pots. I've even given away several of the keikis that have grown into 4"-6"pots themselves. All these years and it has yet to bloom once. the ironic thing is I gave 2 plants to a co-worker and it bloomed this spring for him. He however kept it indoors. So now I've moved mine indoor too hoping I have better luck.

Is a Den. Kobai an orchid to keep in or out? Does it prefer warmer temps? Should I put them in my greenhouse once I get it up and going?

My other question that I need help with is the greenhouse itself. Does anyone have experience putting on up and how to set it up properly? I purchased a 8'X8' easy grow from Costco and expect it to be delivered in a couple of weeks. Any help is much appreciated.

[jay]

There are a lot of Dendrobium growers on this forum. Unfortunately I am not one that can help you.

Some reasons that orchids do not flower but still continue to grow would be:
Not enough light (probably not your problem if you are growing outside)
Not old enough (again, probably not yours)

Not enough of a winter - Some Dendrobiums need a cooler and drier winter to initiate blooming in the spring.

I am sure that someone will come along that knows your type of Den and can give proper advice.

[solay]

Thanks for your reply Jay. Actually I was thinking it might be lighting since I had them under a tree. Now I'm keeping them indoor by a west facing sliding door to give them more light and warmth.

[janet_a]

personally, i think it's cussedness. i have one antelope type that took me YEARS to rebloom; now it grows/blooms like crazy. (no change in conditions.) i have a phal type that bloomed a couple times, sulked for a year, and is now blooming for the 2d time in about 6 months. (again, no change in conditions.) both plants are indoors in a western exposure. (and then i was given a nobile keiki in july; it bloomed in december.) go figure.

[exasperatus2002]

I have a noid Dendrobium. It along with a few other orchids I have wouldnt bloom for me for 4 yrs until I moved and had a southern exposure. They just needed more light.

[Don1]

I have many Dens. growing in my greenhouses. They need lots of light. Some need humidity also. I suspect that light is the issue with yours since the plant is growing well otherwise.

On your questions about the greenhouse, I have built 2. One from a kit similar to the one that you purchased and the other built from scratch. Siting is very important. I ran both of my greenhouses east to west. Since I am on the Nothern Hemisphere, they will receive maximum benefit from the sun if built along this axis. Second, know what you want in the greenhouse before setting it up. Do you want water---if so, where will it come from. Do you want electricity---if so, where is it coming from and how much do you need. Drainage is another major issue in all greenhouses. Are you making drains or will the water just drain into the soil. If the later, plan to add sand and gravel to help drain away the water.

It really is wonderful when it is all done and you can see what your work has accomplished!

[solay]

Thanks for the suggestions. I've been reading up on several sites and looking for accessories. I just don't understand how the thermometers/automatic heating cooling systems get assembled. Pretty confusing really. Especially deciding what to buy. I guess it will be trial and error like everything else.

[jerrymeola]

I think your problem is much simpler. The fact that you are getting many keiki indicates too high a Nitrogen level.

It is unlikely that your den is one that requires special treatment as the name you listed is not a registered name.

I would stop all fertilizer for six months and see what happens.

[solay]

Hummm... I will try that with a couple of them and see. Thanks

[11Orchid126]

As Jerry says, dendrobiums do not like a lot of nitrogen. They also like very tight pots. I made the mistake of moving mine to a bigger pot as it grew. I finally left it alone, put it outside in the sun, stopped fertilizing it completely in August and held back on the water during the fall and winter, and it finally bloomed.

[argus]

Originally Posted by 11Orchid126

As Jerry says, dendrobiums do not like a lot of nitrogen. They also like very tight pots. I made the mistake of moving mine to a bigger pot as it grew. I finally left it alone, put it outside in the sun, stopped fertilizing it completely in August and held back on the water during the fall and winter, and it finally bloomed.

Without a photo, its hard to tell what type of a den it is. I suspect it is a nobile type hybrid if you were told to grow it with your cyms. and if it is growing keikis off the stems. I would follow the advice above. Give it v. bright light during the year, then reduce night temperatures to about 50s if the fall for several weeks to initiate the blooming cycle. Keep it cooler and drier throughout winter(greenhouse should help in providing sufficient humidity, wile less water at roots). Also, use a blossom booster orchid fertilizer(low N) only, during the growing season.

[solay]

I only took one picture of it when it bloomed the first and only time. I tried looking the name up on the web and all I got was another lady who just had a picture of hers. Couldn't find any info. I've seen some Dens. in the SBOE site that looks similar but the names are different.

I will try all suggestions this year and cross my fingers.

I have about 5 in 1 gallon size pots. Should I repot into smaller ones? The rest of the Keikis are mostly in 2" or 4" pots.

[berkeleysgr8]

Since we're both in Northern California, I'm wondering if part of the problem was due to not having a dry rest period in the winter? Starting in October I stop watering and fertilizing my Nobile Dends... then give just enough plain water to keep the canes from shriveling up. Maybe they're getting too wet in the winter? Since you have several pots, you can certainly do some experimenting to see what works!

Pssst... Jerry is great... heeding his advice is always wise!

[solay]

Yes we definitely have wet winters and they never dry out. I guess I didn't help either cause I water them religiously. For some odd reason as soon as I water, it rains. As soon as anything comes up looking not like a keiki, I'll make sure I post a picture. Thanks to all.

[solay]

Here is a update after exactly a month on the Den. Kobai that never blooms and only made keikis. Since I repotted them into smaller 4" pots, put them all indoors, fertilize less and watered only when almost dry, they have started new growths like crazy. I can't believe it. Now I'm looking for blooms!

Check out the pictures of just one pot. The new growth are light green without the dark coloring dead tissue. There's about 5 or 6 new growths on it. I have about 8 of theses 4" pots and they all have new growths from the bottom this time!!! They must like the changes. Thanks Orchid Geeks!!!

[Orchidementia]

That's terrific! I love dens, and that one of yours is a really nice one. Can't wait to see them all bloom!

I followed Geek advice for my nobile and it too is growing like crazy!

[patticake]

They look great, Solay! Geeks rock! I can't take any credit, since Dens and I are still trying to figure each other out!
Whatever you're doing, they seem to like it!

[brookn]

Hi, I just read this, and good growing Solay!!! I have to add that I do not believe that this is a Nobile-type Dend. Solay sent me one of her keikis (and it is growing like crazy), and it looks very similar to my D. kingianum only it is much taller. I wonder if this is a species Dend., cause it just looks so familiar, and the 'Kobai' is a cultivar. I hope I said that right. Kevin???????? What do you think?

[solay]

No, it's not a Nobile cause it doesn't lose leaves. I agree it's more like the D. kingianum and I've been looking around for info. but can't find any. Only saw a picture on flicker from someone who had one too.

Bookn I'm glad the keiki is doing well too. I'm still getting a keiki here and there but more new growth now than keikis. What an improvement!

[Orchidementia]

??? I have a nobile ... I just meant I took advice I got here for a specific kind of den I have and it worked out, not that we have the same kind of den!

Good growing!

[solay]

I know what you meant Orchidmentia. Sorry about that. LOL!!! I guess was trying to agree with Brookn although I don't think you or anyone had suggested it was a Nobile to begin with. Hee! Hee! Hee! We are so confusing.

[Orchidementia]

Well ... it could be me!

[brookn]

Well I wasn't trying to be mean, I just noticed that Nobile had been mentioned 2 times. I guess I just read too fast. I mostly wanted to get to the other point about it being a possible species. I am still hoping Kevin sees this, as I went to IOSPE to see if I could find something similar. I got to constrictum good grief there are a lot of Dends.

[Orchidementia]

Easy mistake to make! Don't feel bad!

[Anton]

There are some nobile Dens that can take up to 4 to 5 years before flowering.

I have some seedlings from Bali and expecting them to be mature and ready to flower in around 4 years. These Dens will grow to around 8 to 9 feet in height.

So hang in there. just try the suggestions the others have suggested.

Orchid growing is a continual large experiment.

[solay]

Anton, we were just clarifying that it's not a Nobile type. This one's was labeled Den. 'Kobai'.

[berkeleysgr8]

Solay, this Dend is definitely different from the Phal and Nobile Dends that I own. So, I'm not quite sure what it's flowering requirements are. Now that you've given out keikis, I assume that ONE of us will be able to figure out what's needed! My single cane keiki has a new growth that is really taking off. Thanks for sending it along with the other orchids!

[solay]

Your welcome. I had so many keikis I didn't know what to do with them all. I'm glad it's doing well for you. I sent a keiki to Jay this week too. Let's see which one of us can make it bloom first. There's at least 4 or 5 Geeks that have a keiki now.

[berkeleysgr8]

If anyone could get these to bloom, it would be our team of Orchid Geeks!

[articuno75]

Solay~ My Den that you gave me is doing great! It has a new growth just as big as the older one already on it and roots are taking off like you wouldn't believe! I can't wait to see this in bloom!

[solay]

Hey, maybe yours will bloom first Jenny. Mine is also growing like crazy but no signs of a spike yet.

[articuno75]

How tall do these get normally? Mine isn't very tall at all, standing at about 5 inches max.

[solay]

I'm not sure. The tallest they ever got was no taller than 7" maybe. The only time it bloomed they bloomed on short canes too. Don't think they are the tall kind. Also the most leaves I've seen are 4 or 5 per cane. The bottom ones fall off.

[arleneg]

I got one along with the Cyms. Mine is growing new roots. No new growth, yet, or any sign of a flower spike.

It does sound like jenny will get the first spike.

[missann]

Ok, I am guilty of only reading about half of the responses on here, cause there are so many, but I just read last night about a den. that will throw keikis like mad and is hard to bloom....there was a really good description of how to get them to bloom too. Oh man..I will look. Oh..I think it was when I was searching kingaums..
Also..here is some advice for your greenhouse. Spare NO expense. I have purchased a few little crappy thermometers and wasted 6 bux, and I missed the ones that were on sale for 20 bux with 2 temperature readers and a humidistat. LAME. I am telling you, get the best equipment-you will surely find that you need some feature that you thought you didn't need the first time, and will end up having to buy the super nice model that you passed up for the cheaper on the first time. I PROMISE. Go all out. I would also put a nice lock on the door. Orchids don't weigh much, and I think some envious jerk or neighborhood kid may sneak into your greenhouse and take your pretty flowers. Especially if you have Satan spawn children in your neighborhood like I do. hehe

[missann]

New Hampshire Orchid Society - Dendrobium kingianum

There you go. It talks a bit about nobiles and the crazy keikeiness. If it is indeed a nobile type hybrid, I think it would be good to read about the nobiles and how one gets them to bloom.

Good luck. Also, if you have an extra keikei around....I would be more than happy to take it off your hands.

[solay]

Missann, PM me your address and I will send one out. I'm curious to see who of us can get one to bloom first. Consider it a friendly contest.

Thanks for the info. and advice.

[articuno75]

Originally Posted by arleneg

I got one along with the Cyms. Mine is growing new roots. No new growth, yet, or any sign of a flower spike.

It does sound like jenny will get the first spike.

If it's anything like the rest of the growths and spikes that I "find" it will probably freeze up on me and do nothing now. I swear every time I find something like this I scare it into not growing.

[solay]

I hope one of us will get it to bloom. I sent out another keiki to Jay since the post office lost the box of Cyms. and the keiki I sent out last Monday. Can't believe they lost a huge box that big.

And Missann got one too now. Yay!!!

[solay]

OK, the Den. Kobai is not making as many keikis which is great. But i still get a few.

Here is one that is huge for some reason and look at them roots! Cool!

Usually I get small keikis. Not sure why it's big now.

[Fishmom]

I found this thread while doing some reading about fertilizer types and my non-blooming dendrobium spectabile. Have any of you had any spikes on those den plants that were growing madly?

[solay]

Yes. I just spotted something that looks like a spike coming in. I think moving them into smaller pots and fertilizing less has done the trick. I hope it doesn't stall and actually bloom for me. The rest look promising too since I hardly get keikis anymore. They are filling in the pots nicely.

Here's a pic. of the spike.

[articuno75]

Yay!!!

[Fishmom]

That's really great! Your plants have a very similar growth appearance to my den spectabile, and although I know that doesn't really mean anything, it gives me hope. At least now I know what the spike may look like if I ever get one.

[arleneg]

Woohoo, Cindy!

The one you gave me produced a keiki. Otherwise, nothing else.

[solay]

Arlene, it may take a while for the keiki to bloom. They like to be crowded it seems. The one that's in bud has roots starting to come out of the bottom of the pot. I still get a keiki here and there but mostly new growth from the base.