Vanda Emergency

[dra]

Need help w/ 2 vandas. Both rescued from Lowes in January. Vanda bark in wooden slat baskets. Soaked everyday to keep moisture and humidity. Both facimg south - close to the glass window. Both declining rapidly -- leaves turning yellow then dropping off (plam tree stage?). Roots turn greenish when watered then turn back to a brownish color. New root coming out of one stalk and turned white yesterday. are they damaged from the spring sun? Can't figure out why the decline so fast. Bought syuperthrive this morning to help out. But don't really know what I did wrong. are they shedding all the old leaves to make room for the new ones?

[jay]

dra - I am sorry but I am unfamiliar with Vanda's, but some more information will be needed for others to help. One thing would be where are you located. We are from all over the world and have very different growing conditions. For someone to give you correct advise, they need to know what you are working with. If you could go to your profile and adjust your location it will help in the future as well.

Next, how are the roots that are in the bark? Do you have any pictures? The white and green roots are healthy, if you have brown and mushy roots then there may be a problem.

[dra]

Jay - thanks for the reply. I'm in the midwest - Michigan specifically. Will try to edit / update profile. As for the roots -- when I removed most (98%)of the bark, the roots were a deep dark green -- wood-type. Not fleshy like the Phal roots. Now they are brown (wood-like) and a tinge of green when moist. Color change in the root noticed only after I removed last week. Should I return the bark. No mushy roots. Mostly brown but not brittle. Than,s for the help.

[digitalgate]

can you post pictures? You are quite up north.. Meaning sunlight is a problem for you.
Vanda is a warming growing orchids , both humidity and light is a disadvantage for you.
All is not lost, post the picture and let see what we can do.

[chefatplay]

I agree with digital. You may need to put back in bark. My vandas are outdoors, barerooted like yours are now, but in FL humidity all the time. In the winter, I have them in full sun. Starting in spring, now, I get them in dappled sunlight. Remember, my sun is much stronger than yours. I haven't had any leaves fall off mine. It sounds like moisture. Still need a picture.

The roots are supposed to turn green when you water them. That's a sign they are absorbing water. Good thing..... They turn white when dry.

[dra]

thanks for the advice so far. Will try to post a picture. Have put the bark back. Both plants are in direct sunlight via south facing window. Is this too strong at this point -- sunburn? The top leaf is now showing some stress -- bottom leaves turning yellow. I am soaking both plants in water with a light fertilizer plus superthrive. What I don't understand is how they ar both declining rapidly now. I have been doing the same ritual for the past 3 months with no problem. Do you think that once I removed the bark it was losing too much moisture and thus humidity?

[brandank]

Hello dra, I am an outside vanda grower. I am still learning myself but, this is what I was told about vandas. 1. They love lots of sun. 2. They need to be watered a LOT if bare rooted. I am watering twice a day now plus fertilize 3x a week. 3. Because of the amount of sun they need a healthy vanda should have a yellow tint to it. Green is actually a sign of not enough sun. 4. Yes because of the sun the will sunburn or develop freckles but that does not harm them. Lots of Sun + Lots of Water = Happy Vanda. We need to see picks to really give your vanda's a diagnosis. Hope this helps a little bit.

[dra]

Another issue I have is the new root breaking through. Correct me if I am wrong, but the new root indicates that the plant is still trying to make it through? So a new question would also be how to keep it going and what to look for to tell me otherwise. I think the other one, though the roots get a little green when watered, the leaves are all brown and dried up. Do i cut that or continue hoping that it can revive during the summer.

[digitalgate]

you need a good light meter to measure how much light is falling on the leave.

[pitik101]

dra...yes your plant is still breaking thru...and is still alive and have adjusted to their surroundings. to keep them growing...keep on what you have been doing...BUT keep them a bit away from the window glass. I suspect you lost the leaves thru sun burn from the window glass

[dra]

Thanks for all the advice -- did move both vandas away from the window a bit. The spring sun is getting stronger -- they were both about a 12inches from the glass. I replaced the bark and started up again on the same routine. On the vanda with no leaves (the roots still get a green tint when I soak) and if the other vanda loses all its leaves(new root coming out) do I cut the stalk or hope a new stalk appears during the summer?
I just want them to hold on until I can place them outside ( a couple of weeks)

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Growing Vandas in a basket in a home is pretty difficult as humidity is usually not high enough for the roots to stay healthy. Most members here know I grow all my Vandas in pots. I have just come up with a neat way to get Vanda plants recently purchased with impossible to pot up roots sticking out to conform nicely to the pot without breaking the roots while bending.

I soak the roots reasonably well, then find a large pot that requires only a slight amount of bending. I ease the roots into the pot and put wet paper towels on top and press down some. This keeps the roots wet and helps to keep the roots from popping up out of the pot, and helps to train them downward if they have been growing upward. After about 12 hours (probably less would work, but 12 is what I did), you pull the bundle from the pot and ease it into the next pot size down, and repeat this over and over again until you are down to the size you want, with towels also pressed down further in the process if needed. Worked great on an Ascocentrum I got with roots sticking straight out.

[dra]

Cynthia -- thanks for the advice. Do you recommend soaking overnight (water plus SUPERTHRIVE) as a quick fix for the plant? I realize that Vandas need high humidity - does that translate to keeping the roots moist? Is there a difference?

[Aleksa]

Originally Posted by dra

Cynthia -- thanks for the advice. Do you recommend soaking overnight (water plus SUPERTHRIVE) as a quick fix for the plant? I realize that Vandas need high humidity - does that translate to keeping the roots moist? Is there a difference?

As much as I know there is big difference between high humidity and constant moisture. Vanda hates constant moisture, because it will cause root rot. Vandas in nature grow on trees and their roots are exposed to air and moisture (rains) periodically. So they like to be dry between waterings.

I am trying to find the balance between humidity and moisture. If humidity is low I water more frequent because the roots dry out fast. From my experience I noticed that chids like air humidity much more than 'liquid water' .

[digitalgate]

Dra stay Michigan, Cynthia's method might work for him/her. I am beginning to suspect
humidity is the problem. I remember when i wash jean , i left it in the bathroom and the
next day the pant is bone dry. Now if you ask me to do the same thing.The pants will
be very smelly by the second day and it is still wet!
Dra , you have to increase to humidity and still provide air movement for the plant.You might want to get a hygrometer to check if the humidity is above 60% and
temperature is above 70s all the time. (unless you want to bloom it)

[dra]

seems that humidity is the problem. But why the sudden turn for the worst so recently. During the winter months, the humidity is real low due to the heat from the furnace. So I soajked everyday, sometimes overnight. worked well and didn't drop any leaves. 4 months later, the leaves started to drop. Just turn yellow, then drop -- no browning. I'm assuming that because it is spring and the sun is getting stronger I should increase and keep steady a high level of humidity. I;'m going to soak everyday and mist. I appreciate all the advice so far. But I am curious to know what I did wrong in the past month.

[brookn]

dra, Tom has an ingenious way of getting humidity to his roots. I found this post for you. Maybe he might chime in on if it was sucessful.

Vase Culture

[digitalgate]

Dont soak the plant for too long and end up ... growing mold. black, soapy difficult to
get rid of...

[dra]

brookn - the vase idea looks good. I couldnt tell from the pictures, but is the plant in a wooden slat box inside the glass vase or is the plant in the vase w/o. Then the plant is just anchored by wires?

[dra]

I've decided to use either Cyhnthia's pot method or Tom's vase method to increase the humidity, and place them fatther away from the glass south window. But in the immediate short term, is there anything that I can do to stabilize the plants? Encourage root health/growth?

[dra]

Any short term solutions?

[brookn]

dra, I don't personally grow Vanda's, but it looks like Tom has it in something. I think it can be put into the vase bare root, or in a basket if you have one. I am not sure this would work well if it were in a pot as I am afraid it would encourage rot. I believe in the thread it said to use wire to stabilize. He goes by tom499, perhaps you could PM him? I don't believe he would mind.

[digitalgate]

use calcium nitrate to encourage root growth.Very diluted..But you still have not
mention what type of Vanda do you have. Strap leaves? Terete leave? quarter terete leave?semi terete leaves?
They have different lighting requirement.
The rule of thumb is that the shorter the plant and the broader the leaves, the more shade and water are needed.
Tall Vanda almost always require full or high sunlight to do well.
Terete and semi terete less than 1 cm diameter -full sun with support.
the rest usually some form of shade. or drappled sun light

[dra]

Where do I get Calcium nitrate and in what product. How about Potassium?

the one that has some leaves ( droppingfast maybe due to sunburn / the new root coming from the stalk was green and is now white - mauybe from the sunburn?) is a asconda princess mikasa. This one has lost 6 leaves in two weeks.

The other one ( no leaves but roots get a green tint when soaked) is a Vanda hybrid? -- chavananan X trevor lesbone X Nancy Brown.

Both are less than 12 inches from the south window.

[digitalgate]

i use pure Calcium nitrate sold in my local nursery. I suspect you will have problem getting
it. You might not have sunburn problem. You might have humidity problem. Can you
post picture? Since you are up north , near window might not be a problem. Get a
light meter -dont second guess. Hygrometer to test humdity . 60% and above is a must.
for Vanda terete leaves- full sun, strap leave 2000 to 4000 food candle.

[made4engineering]

Here is a picture of a Vanda growing wild.
Wild vanda on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
I strongly advise against drowning the roots overnight - orchid roots need constant access to air!!!
You may need to water everyday, but the roots should also dry out everyday. Also..... there. is. no. quick. fix. So I say trash the "superthrive", give it good culture, and wait.

[digitalgate]

it has work for him for the past 3 months. Just suddenly a change for the worst. At the
tropics, i water once a day. Up north with humidity at 20-30% , i suggest 2 or 3 times
a day. I sometime water twice a day (just no time to do 3 time , got to work) depending
on the weather. I really feel for him/her... just check Michigan humidity 90%... weird..
If you are still using heater, then humidity is only 20%.

Can find anything on your orchid. Are you sure it is a Vanda?

[dra]

UPDATE - I adopted Toms vase method for my ailing vandas. Though it may be a bit tooearly, at least one seems to be stabilized. The remaining leaves defeinitely were sunburned but have not dropped. The other ones is bare. But all their roots still retain some green tint. How can I now encourage the roots to grow stronger/develop more? A new root on the healthier stalk seems to not have grown in length -- slow growers? Eager place them outside when the humidity and temps are higher. Thanks for all the help so far / thanks for this forum .

[digitalgate]

see the post above. Use calcium nitrate 4 g in 1 litre of water. Otherwise use anything fertilizer with high nitrates. Stop using nitrates when new root develop. Let it develop
on it own or normal fertilizer.
I still dont know what vanda you are growing. I could be giving you the wrong advise.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Sorry to have missed most of this post while away for a week. Raising humidity around the roots with a vase, if this is what I recall was being done in another post on using a vase, is really good. If you want a quick, but temporary solution in the case of an emergency, put a clear plastic baggie over the entire plant, leaving an opening to allow air exchange, lower than 100% humidity, and a chance for the plant to have a drying cycle (very necessary). If the plant is BIG, use a baggie from a dry cleaners establishment. Sounds like introducing your plants to light too fast was your problem, but having the most optimum environment will help the plant to get back into the growing mode sooner, and may save its life.

[jerrymeola]

Wow - so much mis-information in one thread.

You do NOT have sunburn or too high a light level. Full Michigan sun with no shade in the summer is about the right light level. Vanda like 8-9000 foot candles of light and will take more, I have grown them in 12,000 foot candles in a Florida field without shade. I have never measured a window that was much over 1500 foot candles. Clear glass alone will filter out a significant amount of light.

Soaking roots indoors is to me the only possibility of keeping a Vanda in sufficient moisture. Vanda should be watered 1-3 times a day. When it was not possible to water that often I found soaking for 2-3 hours to be a big benefit. I have soaked for as long as 24 hours.

The reason you did not see any deterioration over the winter is because the plant hibernates. Even dead plants can look good over a winter and die as soon as they try to grow again. Winter sun is filtered by the sky since the sun is lower in the sky and the light travels further. Jan -Feb sun at noon without shade is only about 5000 foot candles in Florida less in Michigan.

Yellowing leaves mean the roots that were supporting those leaves are no longer any good and the plant has to shed the leaves to survive.

Most likely the plant was stressed beyond recovery before you purchased it. Big box stores barely water once a week and certainly not the 15-20 minutes that Vanda would like.

[FLaCo]

I keep my Vandas at full sun from Sunrise to 12-1...I cannot water more than once. I work so I just place them in cedar basket and fill it up with mulch. It retains a bit more moisture than say bare root. Then I mist after work which then dries before sundown.

[bonnober]

My ascoscendae are doing well in my shower, which has glass brick windows facing southeast. I take hot foggy showers every day and splash them with tepid water (we have showerhead filter). Fertilize with 202020 every 10 days or so. ONe's in bud now, the other is putting out great roots.. WE'll see...

[palito]

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

Soaking roots indoors is to me the only possibility of keeping a Vanda in sufficient moisture. Vanda should be watered 1-3 times a day. When it was not possible to water that often I found soaking for 2-3 hours to be a big benefit. I have soaked for as long as 24 hours.

I do that too. I leave them soaking in a pond for hours twice a week. It works.

[clarita]

asco's even though vandacious have a low light requirment than their Vanda cousins. I had asco's outside all last summer. They scoffed at the full all day light in zone 5. I've grown down Jerry's way and up here. I don't think I could burn a Vanda if I tried in Chicago. (Great points Jerry). They are such a tough grow in Northern zones and in an indoor area. This winter we averaged 4 sunny days/month. Not nearly enough light

There is no way I could grow vanda's in z-5 without supplimantal lighting, even in a south window. (Not Floursecents). Gas vapour lights. Only way to deliever the heat and FC's needed on a consistent basis. Vanda's are Light Demons. Keeping them watered will be a battle. You may want to consider supps seeing the outdoor growing season is miniscule up this way.

I thought about vase culture when I got my Renathera's but the risk of cooking them is too great. They are close to my lights which is already 80º+
FWIW

[digitalgate]

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

Even dead plants can look good over a winter and die as soon as they try to grow again.

jerry you are so funny. You are right.
That remind me of all the zombie film i watched. I feel like one too.
Going off to work day in /day out.

[siriusmk]

I wish my local lowes sold more varieties of orchids than phalaenopsis

[kid a]

The one by my parent's house in Indianapolis sells dendrobiums, phals, and sad looking vandas. You might just check with the employees to find out when they get shipments in. I found most of the employees don't know much about orchids and can't tell you much when ask about certain species. It is possible they might not order others because they don't know if they will sell too.