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02-18-2008, 10:48 PM
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| Phailed Phalaenopsis Hello all, I have a phalaenopsis that my husband gave me about a year ago. We left town and a friend house-sat, and i came home to all the buds dropped and a wilted plant. No water, and direct afternoon sunlight (she moved it). From then on, it has been downhill and completely cranky, and unless I literally keep it watered almost every single day, it drops buds. The leaves never look any better, and developed dark spots on even the new growth. It is in a eastern facing window, and gets diffused light in the morning. Strangely, it keeps blooming. On the advice of my local nursery moved it to a new pot sans plastic liner. That actually seemed to make it worse, and they didn't tell me I needed to remove rotted roots while re-potting. After doing a bit of online research, I was resolved to cut off the flower stem to try to save the plant itself, re-pot it in new media the right way, and hope for the best. I figured it had some sort of disease, but as I could not ID what it was precisely to cut it out of the leaves I thought it best to try to see if the orchid itself could fight off the disease with less to support (i.e., no flower stem). I read a few things online that lead me to believe it was more stressful for it to be blooming. So, I ordered better potting mix online after some research, and am waiting for it to arrive in the next day or two. THEN, tonight, I spotted a new leaf on the end of the flower stem. I guess she's pregnant. Problem is, the baby has spots on the leaf too, as does the new leaf that has come in. SO, now I'm totally confused, and I'm hoping I can get some good advice. I have the following questions:
Any advice would be appreciated! I'll post photos of the orchid below, bear with me as it's my first time posting photos.      |
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02-18-2008, 10:53 PM
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| Ok, so I can't post a URL to an outside site without having posted 5 posts or more. Not certain how to share photos with everyone as a newbie, anyone have any ideas? I have about six photos up on photobucket. |
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02-18-2008, 10:59 PM
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| Hi, and welcome!  Posting a photo would really help. I think you have to have made 5 posts in order to do that. I would leave the keiki(baby plant) attatched. Try repotting with your new mix- What kind of mix is it?Phals like to be moist, not wet. I'm sure that others can help better than I since I'm fairly new to orchids. Good Luck! 
__________________ Patti  |
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02-18-2008, 11:03 PM
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| Reply to this thread until you have 5 posts.... |
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02-18-2008, 11:16 PM
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| Oop, and I got the mix off of repotme.com, their phalaenopsis mix - they had lovely instructions for re-potting, they seemed to know what they were doing  |
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02-18-2008, 11:45 PM
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| I have recently re-entered the orchid scene after a few years, but I know a bunch about plants in general also. First of all, I do not advise cutting anything off, because if the plant needs to cut it's losses and steal resources from any part of itself then you are depriving the plant of nutrients. This goes for the baby too. Somehow it doesnt seem to me like the leaves themselves are diseased. The roots look horrible though. Overwatering kills more orchids than anything - keep in mind. You may want to put a little bit of moss under those roots poking out that are still alive, since they might be the only roots the orchid has left. Raise the humidity around it, and put other plants close to it (plants like company). And then.... stop fiddling with it. And wait. |
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02-19-2008, 12:13 AM
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| Hi Wendlynne and welcome to the forum By looking at your plant I had a couple of questions. How often was you watering your plant and when did you first notice the pitting/black marks/spots? Your Phal looks to have a bacteria/fungal infection of some sort. Truthfully I'd like Cynthia to see this cause she'd know more about this. You definitely need to remove dead or dying roots and then get a good bactericide/fungicide to treat.
__________________ Jenny~   |
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02-19-2008, 02:21 AM
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| Hi Wendy, I definitely recomend a repot. The older leaves look this way because they were robbed of moisture, and they will not recuperate, but leave them on until they dry up and fall off. The plant is taking the reserves of these leaves and putting it toward the new growth. The spotting, I cannot tell, but it does not look pitted, and may just be the way the plants leaves look. I would soak the roots in peroxide after depotting for a bit, you can even pour it onto the leaves and crown ( about 5 minutes should do the trick). That should help with containing any infection or fungus. It does look like it has been perhaps overwatered. The old squishy brown or black roots need to be removed when repotting, and the mix you have ordered should work well for the plant. If you want to repot back into the same pot it is in it should not be a problem, you should sanitize the pot first though. The new roots are a good sign, and I am glad to see that you cut the spike as it was probably keeping the plant from healing faster. I would leave the keiki, once repotted and treated, it should perk up as well. I use a mix of cinnamon extract, dish soap, and water on my plants, and it is doing amazing things for my plants, I have even sprayed it onto the roots of plants that I am repotting. Cinnamon has antifungal and antibacterial properties, and as far as I can tell bugs hate it also. This recipe alone has helped me save a division from a very old Cattleya, and it is the only thing I have used on it (it had fungus), besides water and some fertilizer. 1 tsp. cinnamon extract 5 drops of Dawn dishsoap pour into quart spray bottle, and fill with water If you are wanting to use something else, many people here use Phyton, and Physan for fungus. I spray this (cinnamon spray) onto my plants every time that I water to clean the leaves, and as a preventative. I have used it for several months this way.
__________________ “When two friends understand each other totally, the words are soft and strong like an orchid's perfume” Last edited by brookn; 02-19-2008 at 02:28 AM. |
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02-19-2008, 11:17 AM
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| Thank you all so much, you have been very helpful! It's looked this way for about eight months. When I first got the orchid, I had never had one before and I'm CERTAIN I overwatered it, I probably watered it every other day. I thought the potting mix needed to be WET. It somehow survived, until we left for vacation and I don't think it was watered at all in the two weeks our house sitter was there. Temperatures in the house exceeded 95 degrees as well, it was at least that the day we came home. It's looked like this ever since. The black spots developed about a month later, so probably around the first week of August. Strangely, it demands almost twice as much water as my other orchid, which I water about every three - four days and is as happy as a clam:  The sick one needs to be watered every other day, period, or it drops flowers (there's only two pathetic ones left, but it's flowered non-stop since august). I cut off one stalk about six weeks ago (treated the end with cinnamon), and was about to get brutal and cut off this one to try to save it until I discovered the keiki. Is a foot away far enough for this plant from the sick one? It does NOT have the spots that even the new leaf on this one has, it's been about that distance for 6 months and seems fine. I just am careful not to touch it after I've touched the other one. I'm so excited! I've felt just so awful about this poor plant, and thought then I'd have to kill its child. I bought some physan that should arrive with the new potting mix, but I will try the dish soap and cinnamon for the next few days. These spots certainly didn't look like anything I had seen on orchid websites at all. I'll see if I can get a better, tight photo of the spots on the new growth and post, that's where it's clearest. Thank you all again! My husband (horror) has been trying to get me to throw this one away, but I really want to save it. I think orchids are lovely, and now that I've had success with the one, I'd like to make it more of a hobby. |
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02-19-2008, 02:35 PM
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| Pitting on the leaves can come from very cold water on them, or from, my experience, spraying with neem oil (probably temperature damage). Also, it is possible, I suppose, that dehydration may also be causing some surface irregularities. But, to water so much is a dangerous thing. I don't think the action of the buds should be used to determine the watering. New mix is going to take frequent watering for a while, until the mix starts to absorb some water. And, in the beginning, the mix is not making good contact with the roots if it is medium bark, with nothing to add some form fitting quality. Your new mix may have some small stuff in it to better form to the root shape. So, don't keep up the frequent watering for very long. When you repot, it is nice to remove the dead roots, mostly because they take up room in the pot that should be filled with mix, but it is not critical to remove every dead root. If in doubt about the root, especially if the plant is root shy, leave the root. You can get rid of it on the next repot if clearly dead by then. And I agree with the above poster, don't cut off the leaves.
__________________ Cynthia Prescott Orchid Society |
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02-19-2008, 03:41 PM
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| Looks like your Phal is overwatered AND sunburned. Bacterial or fungal infections will be wet and icky, not dry. Re-pot so you can inspect the roots; I suspect you will find lots of mushy and black ones. Cut them off and sprinkle with cinnamon if you don't have any other plant specific products around. The good news is you have a new, green root trying to grow, and a Phal can survive with only one or two roots. Leave the soggy leaves attached and let them fall off naturally; they will turn yellow and fall off eventually. I will attach a few threads to help you with good culture habits. And welcome to the forum!! Orchid Care for Phalenonopis & Paphiopedilum Orchids http://www.aos.org/aos/orchids/docum...lturephals.pdf and something I found extremely useful when learning how to water orchids: http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/orc...f-orchids.html
__________________ "If Nothing Ever Changed, We Wouldn't Have Butterflies." Last edited by PhalPal; 02-19-2008 at 03:55 PM. |
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02-19-2008, 04:31 PM
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| I wish people would use common sense when considering their orchids. Fungus grows in hot wet conditions. Not watering for two weeks will not cause rot. It is too dry for rot. So your plant is dehydrated. The best thing would have been to begin watering like normal (actually a little less than normal is preferred for dehydrated plants) and the plant would have taken care of itself. How many people do you know who say they do nothing to my orchids and the orchids do great.? Disease is not nearly as common as reading this forum would have you believe. Roots get damaged from handling or lack of water or too much water. Soft mushy roots are usually a subsequent result of this initial damage which caused the roots to die.
__________________ jerry |
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02-19-2008, 06:45 PM
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| Ok, so my initial overwatering killed most of the roots, and subsequently it's dehydrated from lack of roots? That makes sense, but I guess I'm just not sure what I'm doing wrong anymore. I've been consistent for eight months now on watering, the orchid next to it looks fantastic, and this one never gets any better than it looks now. I know the old potting mix I used wasn't very good, it was big and doesn't hold any moisture. And those black spots? Below are slightly better photos, are you all sure there isn't something weird there I'm missing?   |
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02-19-2008, 06:59 PM
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| Welcome to the forum, wendlynne. I don't have much experience with orchids but the last photo shows a little more pigmentation in the leaves than any form of any disease. I have read it elsewhere on the forum that too much light could cause this. From your earlier posts I gather it had had received plenty of light in the past. I think jerrymeola is right . They are quite resilient. Good luck.
__________________ **** **** " The good person increases the value of every other person whom (s)he influences in any way" **** |
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02-19-2008, 07:05 PM
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| Oh, and most importantly, THANK YOU for your time and for responding so thoroughly. I am very much enjoying the forum, thank you for your welcome. I've read every post referred, and am definitely going to make some changes to watering, method, repotting and potting mix, but I just want to ensure there isn't anything else needed with those spots on the new leaf and keiki. Many thanks, Wendy |
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02-19-2008, 07:17 PM
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| Those spots on the keiki are just an indication of the red-pink color in your very pretty orchid. I think they will disappear as the plant gets older. The expert on phals is Mayres--what do you say  |
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02-20-2008, 12:26 AM
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