Unknown Orchid species - help with ID please

[green thumbs]

Hi all!

I need some help identifying this species of Orchid please.



It is growing in a large clump beside the road in the Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia.
I assume that it is exotic, as I'm not familiar with it.
Last week, a man stopped at the plant and said that it was a rare orchid.
A few days later the clump was butchered! Hacked to the ground!
Will it regrow?

Here's some more pics of its flowers, fruit and foliage.

[Anton]

Looks like an Epidendrum of some description. Orchids as such don't bare fruit, I would say they are possibly seed pods.

Interesting plant. Doesn't take some idiot long to ruin a good plant in the wild.

[green thumbs]

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly Anton.

That certainly narrows down my search. I'll go and check out some pics in the genus.

Luckily, there's another clump growing nearby but it's beside the road as well, so he might come back for it.

[Anton]

Put a sign there saying
"Due to removal of this plant, this site is now being monitored by remote cameras."

National Parks and Wildlife Services". (and include a logo)

I am a devious bugger.

[kmarch]

Anton is correct it is an Epidendrum, more specifically a "reed-stemmed" Epidendrum. There are 2 kinds of Epis, one which has pseudobulbs and one which has long reed-like caines. This is the latter.

I think there is a good possibility that this is actually not a species, but rather an escaped hybrid that has naturalized itself. I say this because to my knowledge reed-stem Epis are not native to Australia. They come from South America.

For this reason, that it is probably an escaped hybrid and not a species, it will not be possible to ID it more specifically than that.

[green thumbs]

Thanks very much Kmarch

It does look like a garden escapee or even a planting, as it's out the front of established gardens circa 1930's.

The closest I could find is Epidendrum ibaguense to which it very closely resembles.
What do you guys think?


Photo courtesy of Jay Pfahl.

[Anton]

Fairly close, probably a slight variation on a theme.

[green thumbs]

Thanks Anton

It's probably as close as we're going to get I suppose.

Would it be a cultivar of ibaguense, a hybrid or possibly even a very old clump of the original species?

This orchid "enthusiast" was very excited about "his" find!
He will no doubt will get hundreds of plants propagated from it, judging by the size of the clump he "pruned".
It would have been nice if he'd asked, as he spoke to my partner, as it's out the front of our house.

Will the plant recover?


Pat

[Anton]

It should, epis are like weeds, very hardy.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Yep, common reedstemmed Epi. This is about as far from rare as you can get. It is usually called the weed of the orchid world and is nearly impossible to kill. Takes just about any culture, and propagates itself very rapidly. Because of the rapid growth and spreading, and keiki-ing, it is passed from one person to another, ad infinitum, resulting in almost all of these being virused. The only plants that can be expected to be free of virus are those grown recently from seed. Just make sure that you do not use a tool to cut one of these, and then use the tool on another orchid without sterilizing it first, by heating, not by using alcohol.

[fred]

your Epidendrum is also known as a Crucifix orchid

Sheaffe's Nursery Crucifix Orchids

[green thumbs]

Many thanks Cynthia and Fred.

So is it safe to call it Epidendrum ibaguense? and consider it case closed?

Oh dear, the weed of the orchid world eh!
That's something of a relief! Rare bah! He's welcome to it then.

[fred]

I can not say for 100% that your Epi is in-fact an ibaguense but it is close.

I would have to agree with what kmarch has said Quote=kmarch] it will not be possible to ID it more specifically than that.[unquote]

Yeah they are seen as the weed of orchids but they still look good in a collection
Rare no worth keeping I think so.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by green thumbs

So is it safe to call it Epidendrum ibaguense? and consider it case closed?

It is definitely not safe to call it Epi ibaguense and call it case closed. The positive identification of orchid species (unless it is a very distinctive species) at the very least requires one to record detailed measurements and other info of the plant and all of its structures and compare it to the botanical descriptions of the species published by orchid taxonomists. This is most reliably done by an orchid taxonomist. Identification by a picture, even one of similar colour and form, is not at all reliable.

There's no harm in simply calling it by its generic name, Epidendrum. Not being able to ID it specifically does not detract from its beauty or the enjoyment you get out of finding or photographing it. And not knowing specifically what it is is far less of a problem than it would be to tag an incorrect name on it only to have someone breed with it or try to show it.

[Aleksa]

Oh... I would have fainted if I had found Epidendrum on the road! You have no idea what I had to do to get one of these. in Montenegro they are extremely rare!

[Andrew]

Epi.radicans is also quite similar to Epi.ibaguense. As I understand it, radicans has fewer flowers and aerial roots along the length of the stem, compared with ibaguense where aerial roots are confined to the lower part of the stem. Both are grown as garden plants in the warmer parts of Australia. David Jones's latest book on Australia orchids lists one of them as being naturalised in Australia although not having the book with me I can't offhand recall which one (I didn't buy the book for the exotics ) I wouldn't be surprised if both are. Given the prevalence of these two species in gardens in comparison to their hybrids, the odds are in favour of it being one of the two. Perhaps try google or ask on the orchidguide listserv to see if you can get hold of a taxonomic key for Epidendrum if you're really eager to know => hybrids usually don't fit the descriptions.

[jerrymeola]

I am surprised that so many people think that the flowers are similar. Reed epidendrum look very similar but these two are about as diferent as any I have seem.

My first impression was that the orchid was clearly not Epidendrum ibaguense.
Scientist identify species by exact measurements so that repeated identification can be made by other scientist.

The proportions on the two flowers are very different. Epidendrum ibaguense has a width to length ratio of about 3 while the wild plant has a ratio of about 2. Equally the overall shape of the flowers is different.

I find so many people want to identify orchids by color. It would be good practice to convert orchid photos to Black and White before trying to compare them.

[Andrew]

Just checked the Jones book. He lists the red Epidendrum species naturalised in NSW and Qld as Epi.elongatum. He also notes that an orange flowered Epidendrum thought to be Epidendrum X obrienianum is also naturalised in NSW and Qld. An Epidendrum key is looking more and more useful.