Is this a crown rotting ?

[jhy1]

I purchased this online last week, the leaf's color is yellow pinkish. This morning after I misted the plants, I found a dark spot right in the middle of the plant, the inside base of the leaf where the new leaf come out. looks like there is a crake. Is this crown rotting? Should I give any special care ?
Thanks,

Jim

[brookn]

Doesn't look good to me, misting is fine if you make sure the crown gets completely dried out, and I am guessing it did not. I would stop all misting now, and let the plant dry out a bit before watering. You can pour peroxide into the crown to hopefully dry it out, and get rid of any rot. I am not sure if this is going to help or not, it is the early stages, but with crown rot it can spread really fast. I would also pour cinnamon down into the crown after it has dried from the peroxide, you can facilitate drying by putting a fan on it, with mine, I tip them carefully on their side so that any water runs out of the crown. I want to post this now, so that you will see it quickly, but I am going to type another post to recomend culture etc...

[brookn]

http://www.orchidweb.org/aos/orchids...lturephals.pdf

http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/new...=skewer+method

Because your phal is potted in sphag, it is going to take longer for it to dry, and the skewer method works okay for this type of medium. Others might recomend that you change mediums, but I have a couple of Phals in sphag, and you just have to be more careful of watering, or the roots will rot. I have one monster plant in sphag that only needs to be watered about once every 10-12 days. I personally do not recomend repotting this plant until it starts to feel better, as it is already stressed, and repotting will stress it further and may tip the balance completely. Phals generally do well with repotting at any time, I have found however that a switch to a medium that dries faster (such as bark mix) that the plants do go through a period of stress and adjustment. I do not mist my Phals, but I am looking into humidifiers. In my opinion misting a Phal is just inviting problems.

[jhy1]

Hi Brook,
Thank you for the replied.
The leafs looks funny when I received them last Fri. I email the grower and he told me it's "fine". My question is: Is that leaf looks fine ? Should I do anything ?

Jim

[brookn]

Well, it does not look fine. If you want to rehabilitate it, what I have recomended might work, might not. I would definitely contact the grower with pics. If this is one of the plants with the rotten roots from your other thread, I would complain for sure. Yes it is stressful for the plant to be shipped, but I do not feel that it should be going downhill so quickly. I do believe that misting could have been part of the problem, but it may very well have been ailing before it got to you. I wish you luck. If you do want to attempt to help the plant I suggest that you pour peroxide into the crown tonight, dust the crown with cinnamon when it is dried out, and put the thing in front of a fan ( a gentle breeze type setting). I am afraid that if you do not at least take these steps tonight, it will for sure be a goner. I also reccomend looking into some physan ASAP, as this plant will surely be needing all the help you can give it. If the roots are rotted, I would pour the mix over the medium and all also. Hope that helps.

[brookn]

I also have another thought, is the pic that you have where the plant is at all times? it is also possible, that with the misting the water has intensified the light coming from the window, and is burning the plant. If the leaves are wet in any way, they must be kept out of the light until they are dry. My first instinct is possible crown rot, but my second thought is that the misting and the light might be causing it. If the peroxide bubbles when it is poured onto the crown, I am saying it's rot or bacterial.

[jhy1]

Hi Brook,
I'm going to check the roots right now. (this is the different plant) Also I will do the H2O2 and the cinnamon.
Thanks

Jim

[jhy1]

Hi Brook,
If that is crown rot, It was came that way from the grower. I noticed a small brown dot when I received the plant and the leafs look pretty much the same, Little bit yellow and pink. Thanks,
Jim

[brookn]

Good luck, I stand by my recomendation then. It will hopefully begin recovery with some treatment, and TLC.

[jhy1]

Re-exam the leafs, It appear to me they are broaken from the base. Durning shipping, the grow folding the leafs up to save some space. I think they broke the leaf when they pack the plant on Tue., when I received the plant on Fri, The leaf turned from green to yellow pinkish.
Question : the top leaf died, will that kill the plant? Or they can grow new leaf later ?

Thanks,

Jim

[brookn]

As long as the rest of the crown is not damaged, and the leaf has broken so as to allow another to grow in. You may have to do surgery, but let's get this healed first. Carefully remove all of the top leaf that has died, and treat with the peroxide and cinnamon. Then you wait. Carefully check for more breakage. if there is, a q-tip with the above mentioned used at the breakage will keep out fungus or infection and help the leaf to heal.

[jhy1]

Thank you Brook, I will do that.

Jim

[PhalPal]

jhy1 I just read your other thread regarding who you ordered your orchids from; this is NOT how most growers ship their orchids!! Do you mind telling us who sent you these orchids in this condition?? E-bay? Orchids and shipping are expensive and you are entitled to receive a perfect plant, everytime. No rotten roots, no crown rot, no broken leaves. Personally I would demand a refund, but given the way this guy talked to you before I doubt if you will get anywhere. At the very least, you can spread the word so none of us make the same mistake buying from him.

[jhy1]

The leaf fall off this morning !!!
Thanks everyone for the support !!!

Jim

[jhy1]

I decide to post the email I received and the email I replied to the grower (Sandra, you are smart, how do you know who the grow is ????)

I say:
I did "not" re pot the "scarlet obrunzer", and I did not mean you packing the orchids leafs up was wrong, I'm trying to find some excuse for you why the leaf is dying. Please don't mixed up two different plants and two different issues.

I don't know have you ever see the pictures I sent to you, You keeping telling me the "yellow &pinkish" leaf was "normal", but now that leaf fall off and look like crown rot. Also you told me 90% dead roots is "OK" and "all our orchids are inspected before shipping...roots and all.." . I think most people will not agreed with you.

Please go to Hello!!! New from San Jose, CA
and Is this a crown rotting ? see the pictures in your own eyes.

If you feel you owe me a new plant or two, Please ship it to me with my "last" ordered. If you want me to ship those two plants back to you to get the refund, Never mind !!! I don't want to pay double the shipping plus take another chance, the odd is not on my side so far.

Thank you and have a nice weekend !!


Jim


He said earlier :
----- Original Message ----
From: "BALDANORCHIDS@aol.com"
To: h_yang@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 12:27:04 PM
Subject: Re: You've received a question about your eBay item, ORCHID BALDANS KALEIDOS...


We always pack the leafs up you have to....Please get a book on orchids because everything you are asking is normal..and you cannot repot orchids that are just shipped they will die to much trauma.And all our orchids are inspected before shipping...roots and all..We are sending you your invoice for your new order .2 are bare root species they are full grown species as big as they will ever get the others are potted do not repot them they have just been repotted,its fine if there are dead roots leave them alone...The only one you should repot if you like is the lake view splash..and that as well is full size..We have to check out the nurseries to see if we have anymore of the scarlet obrunzer.If not we will refund your money and you can ship the one you have back to us.

THANK YOU
BALDANORCHIDS

[mayres]

Looking at their web site the photos would tend to indicate they know how to grow phals! HOWEVER - this email response IMMEDIATELY puts them on my DO NOT ORDER EVER list! Sheeesh.

[jhy1]

Couple more exchanged emails. "Email dosen't lie"

[articuno75]

Has the crown blackened anymore or is this plant even savable? I would definitely see about replacements or refunds. Unreal how people treat Newbies.

[jhy1]

Hi,

Just received two more boxes from you. Three small Keikis look very healthy, I pot them already.
ORCHID HYBRID'SPLASH' WHITE,PINK,PURPLE,RED TIE DYED
in 4" pot look small with four leafs very healthy.

ORCHID SPECIES 'GINING ALICIA' PEACH X LARGE MATURE POT
in 4" square pot with two leafs plus one small new leaf, one leaf was bend at the base, I don't know it will recover or not ? One third of the roots were dried or dead, I re pot it already, it should be fine.

ORCHID HYBRID 'BALDANS JEWELS'FRAGRANT STARTING 2 SPIKE
in 6" pot with four leafs, one small new leaf and two spikes, leafs and spike looks good. It look like the plant want to claim out the pot so I start the whole re pot process. I'm surprised to found out 90% the roots were rotted, I took a picture then cut them off treat it with Cinnamon. and re pot it, the plant should recover but should I cut the spikes off ?



Tomorrow I will check all the plants I received last week, make sure they all have good roots.

Question : What should I expect the condition of the plants I purchased from you ( Very good reputation grower)? Should I re pot the plant when I received them ?



Thanks,



Jim





----- Original Message ----
From: "BALDANORCHIDS@aol.com"
To: h_yang@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 11:03:09 AM
Subject: Re: Yellow pinkish leafs


OK..

There are no pictures in this file you will need to send again as a zip..2.Do not compare leafs to other plants they all have different leafs just like people are all different..We have orchids with all shape and color leafs..That depends on the cross breed..and leafs all turn brown yellow and fall off...Just resend the pictures so i can see them and tell you whats going on.But please don;t send in that format we can't open them here..try a zip file..thank you and dont worry im sure it's fine if not e will send you a new one..

[jhy1]

Hi BaldanOrchids,

I attached few pictures of the plants I received last Fri.
ORCHID BALDANS KALEIDOSCOPE X SCARLET OBRUNZER HUGE
Above item is the one with yellow pinkish leaf. I left the feedback "wish have greener leaf". 9:30 am this morning, after I misted the plants, I noticed there is a dark spot in the center of the plant, look like it is a little cracked at the base of the leaf. Was this caused the leaf to turn yellow ? Is this will affect the new leafs grow ? will he died ? I noticed this leaf was pretty flat at the top, not like the other kind of pointed up or down, It's hard to describe but you can see it from the second picture(016.JPG).

The first picture showed the dark spot(012).

The third is to compare the leafs with my other plants(013).

The fourth is my other plant too(014).



Please let me know if the plant will be "OK", Can I let it bloom when he spike ? Or better let him rest to cut the spike off ? Any special care should I apply ?



Thank you very much and Have A Nice Weekend !!!



Jim



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----














Hi BaldanOrchids,

I attached few pictures of the plants I received last Fri.
ORCHID BALDANS KALEIDOSCOPE X SCARLET OBRUNZER HUGE
Above item is the one with yellow pinkish leaf. I left the feedback "wish have greener leaf". 9:30 am this morning, after I misted the plants, I noticed there is a dark spot in the center of the plant, look like it is a little cracked at the base of the leaf. Was this caused the leaf to turn yellow ? Is this will affect the new leafs grow ? will he died ? I noticed this leaf was pretty flat at the top, not like the other kind of pointed up or down, It's hard to describe but you can see it from the second picture(016.JPG).

The first picture showed the dark spot(012).

The third is to compare the leafs with my other plants(013).

The fourth is my other plant too(014).



Please let me know if the plant will be "OK", Can I let it bloom when he spike ? Or better let him rest to cut the spike off ? Any special care should I apply ?



Thank you very much and Have A Nice Weekend !!!



Jim



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----














Hi BaldanOrchids,

I attached few pictures of the plants I received last Fri.
ORCHID BALDANS KALEIDOSCOPE X SCARLET OBRUNZER HUGE
Above item is the one with yellow pinkish leaf. I left the feedback "wish have greener leaf". 9:30 am this morning, after I misted the plants, I noticed there is a dark spot in the center of the plant, look like it is a little cracked at the base of the leaf. Was this caused the leaf to turn yellow ? Is this will affect the new leafs grow ? will he died ? I noticed this leaf was pretty flat at the top, not like the other kind of pointed up or down, It's hard to describe but you can see it from the second picture(016.JPG).

The first picture showed the dark spot(012).

The third is to compare the leafs with my other plants(013).

The fourth is my other plant too(014).



Please let me know if the plant will be "OK", Can I let it bloom when he spike ? Or better let him rest to cut the spike off ? Any special care should I apply ?



Thank you very much and Have A Nice Weekend !!!



Jim


I just wondering is he mad of me or something, Am I asking too much ?

[jhy1]

Hi articuno75,

The leaf fall off thsi morning, I don't know I can save him or not, I will try my best.

[articuno75]

Where the leaf fell off, take a q-tip and dip it into peroxide. Rub it across the the broken area. Then take cinnamon and dust where the break is. This will disinfect the area and cautarize the wound, keeping the area sterile and preventing spread of anymore possible bacteria/infection. Hope this helps.

[patlee]

I know a man who has a large collection of Phals. He is a little over-the-edge when it comes to crown rot. He only waters his orchids before noon so they will have plenty of time to dry off before the night sets in. Maybe he's not so crazy, he never gets rot...

[pikevi]

Is the Phal. potted in Sphagnum moss or is there a mix beloww the top layer of moss?

If it is potted solely in sphagnum moss it may not be a good idea to keep the plant in the current mix/condition.

brookn: I am sure you are right. But if the orchid is in sphagnum alone do you think it may help a little to get rid of it and re-pot it is a mix? Just hoping it is the better of the two evils!!

jhy1: I think the problem is a bit more than the top leaf. As brookn suggested use hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) and take a straw and blow out any 'black' materials you see in the middle. The H2O2 will loosen any dead organic matter in the crown. And if there is a large enough hole in the bottom of the pot feel the mix/sphagnum and see if it is soggy. If it ,and if brookn re-assesses the situ and agrees , get rid of the moss and repot it in a mix.

Even though I don't have much experience it seems that the 'grower' is wrong here.

Good luck.

[brookn]

Hey pikevi, my thoughts are to just let it dry until the pot feels very light and the sphag is getting almost crispy. You would be surprised how quickly that can be achieved if a fan is on the plant. The sphag from the pic looks pretty good. What I would do is to let the plant acclimate to my environment, and just water carefully when it is dry (or at least very close to it). It needs to heal, and the problem with a repot is the disturbance of the plant will set it back a little. The adjustment to another drier mix will set it back even more. I have had Phals that came out of sphag do an almost total shutdown before they adjusted to the bark mix I use (it has sphag in it also). Others it did not bother in the least. If it is already ailing, it's like exposing someone with pneumonia to the stomach flu, then walking them in the cold for an hour, make any sense? Once it is on it's way to recovery, a repot can be done. If Jhy had told me the roots looked bad, I would recomend it, but some Phals really do well in sphag. The monster I have in it had roots in tightly wound sphag that was beyond sour, roots so big and long it had to go into a 7" pot, and I decided that if it liked it so much I would just put it back in sphag.

To me sphag works great for some of them, but I do not fuss over the plants all that much, I try to just look them over and leave them alone. They get attention when I have the time, cause my schedule is so hectic. All of my plants but 2 get this treatment, they get fussing because they are ailing.

[pikevi]

OK, brookn.

I was thinking about drying the medium as rapidly as possible too.

I am still learning!

Thanks for explaining.

[brookn]

Pikevi I am always learning, and I still ask the dumbest questions. I will write something and I think "Sheesh should I just come right out and say I bleach my hair and it is effecting my brain?" Cheers!

[pikevi]

LOL, Welcome to the elite club

[jhy1]

Hi Brook,

What is the leafs span of you monster Phals ? I love huge Phals, I'm always looking for the Monster.

I have few X-Large Phals grow in the spang, they are very happy and healthy, most of my Phals do not had dead roots except the plants I purchased from Baldan. I have a lots of Phals growing nicely in the bark as well, when I re pot them, I had better luck with spang. I know most people don't like spang, It just work better for me.

The "sick plant" just had shower with H2O2 then some dust of cinnamon, he is resting now.

Thanks, This is a great place to learn !!!!

Jim

[brookn]

Jh,

I call mine a monster because of the roots mostly and of course how nothing seems to phase it. It has fairly big leaves, but I have not given them a measure. I actually have another phal that has bigger leaves that I am convinced has some gigantea in the parentage, but in the scope of things I believe that both of them are really still teenagers. I hope all is well for your sick plant.

[jhy1]

Hi Brook,

Thank you for the replied and the care about my sick plant. I don't know he will recover or not yet, Songs like the grower won't send me a new plant, It's OK, At least I learned a lesson.

What is the life span of Phals ? what is the most leaf span for Phals ? Thanks,

Jim

[pikevi]

I don't know what the lifespan is but , if I am not mistaken, mayres has mentioned that it could be well over 20 years.(I apologise if I am mis-quoting him).

[jhy1]

Thank you !!!

[mayres]

Yes - I have seen a few that old. Quite remarkable they get, compared to the youngsters that most of us see on a regular basis. I have noted on one website (orchid grower/supplier) that they say the lifespan is "Indefinite". I see no reason why they could not potentially be passed on from generation to generation. Wouldn't that be fun? Of course the pressure might be tough on some - sure wouldn't want to kill great great grandfathers 100 year old phal! My wife and I have one plant (not an orchid) that we purchased when we got married 33 years ago that is still going strong. Wish I would have been introduced to orchids WAY WAY back then! I might (and I emphasize the word "MIGHT") have something really special by now?

[pikevi]

That is so nice,mayres. I wish I could have a glimpse of that 33 year old plant. My best wishes for another 33 years (or more) of marital bliss.

I have read some cultures in either Africa or Asia plant a tree when a couple gets married. I don't know what the tree is but I am sure it is a great way to help the environment (and the planet).

Thank you for posting the photo, mayres.