Phalaenopsis dies in s/h

[NancyG]

It happened so fast! I had replanted it 6 months ago because some of the roots had rotted. It had many long healthy roots and was a good size plant. New roots were growing. Of all the orchids I recently replanted into s/h this one took the longest to adjust. It had dropped 2 leaves initially but grew 3 new ones. Then all of a sudden in the last 2 days the new leaves started tuning yellow. It had a brown mark where one of the leaves had dropped off but it was hard not soft. I water with worm tea. I would flush out the container once a week and just kept the bottom reservoir full. It was in the pellets from First Rays.

Yesterday I was going to take the plant out of it's medium and check to see what was going on. I just touched the plant and all the leaves fell off. I took the plant out of it's container and the roots were all rotten except for one. I thought that a plant in s/h couldn't rot. What happened? Could the roots have grown down to the bottom reservoir and rotted and spread to rest of plant? Do I have to be careful of the others in s/h so this doesn't happen to them? They are doing very well right now.

I would welcome some advice. I was hoping s/h would be my solution to keeping my orchids happy.

NancyG

[janet_a]

condolences. i had two in s/h and they both lost all their roots. one is still hanging on by a thread in sphag n bag; the other came back in SnB and was in a pot, and then got stem rot and fell apart.

i took it as an object lesson not to try phals in s/h (at least not in my conditions).

[justloveorchids]

Thats scary but i guess it makes sense because i have several Phals that despite being repotted earlier this year when their roots were only half way down the pot they now have roots that have grown through the bottom of the pot

So I guess even if you put a pot within a pot you could still get some roots grow through into the reservoir of water

Maybe its the design of the reservoir bit thats wrong

[tom499]

I dont use the reservoir after nearly losing one of my oldest orchids through root rot.

I find using hydroton balls like normal mix does give good results

[justloveorchids]

Tom.........So am I correct in that you use normal orchid pots and simply use Hydroton balls instead of Orchid Potting mix

Is Hydroton a special form of the ECA ?

My local Hydroponics shop sell ECA but have not yet discovered what make .......does it matter ?

[tom499]

Not sure what ECA is.

Yes, I use it as normal mix, Its good and free draining between the hydroton balls, but gives good water retention.

Its probably best to use on thick rooted plants, but smaller hydroton balls would be fine with thinner roots plants.

[justloveorchids]

ECA= expanded clay aggregate of which Hydroton is one make

[WIB]

I don't know whether S/H is responsible for this effect. I certainly have had phals languish for a while in other media then die in a day. It's a really dramatic thing they do. Contrary to their reputation as an easy, beginner sort of orchid, I have found them rather picky, at least in my conditions. I think of them as my princess-and-pea orchids, much more fastidious than the paphs, cattleya-types, and even onicidum group.

[janet_a]

Originally Posted by justloveorchids

ECA= expanded clay aggregate of which Hydroton is one make

also

aliflor (?)
hydro klorel
primeagra

[arleneg]

Nancy,

Did you wash the clay pellets well? From what I understand, PrimeAgra, Hydroton, etc., need to be rinsed well, soaked, rinse again, then soaked in Physan 20/Superthrive (or KLN) solution, before using.

Were the new roots growing into the reservoir? If so, that could've contributed to rotting the new roots.

I'm just rambling my thoughts on here.

[MariahK]

I agree WIB they are my pickier plant as well my phaps, oncids and catts all thrive but any deviation with a phal and it dies and sometimes I saw no reason for the quick demise! where as my oncids are almost impossible to kill!

[Orchid664]

I have a number of Phals in S-H, both species and hybrids, and they are doing very well. Some have put their roots into the nutrient solution, but they do not rot. One thing Phals are picky about is the temperature of the water, they do not like cold water. I am growing in expanded clay in a 2-pot system and fertilize with MSU for tap water.

[jay]

I have most of my plants in Hydroton. I only have a few in PrimeAgra. I have heard mixed reviews about the PrimeAgra. There are some that say they stay too wet and can cause rot. I have not had that problem, but living in the desert drys things out very quickly.

I do keep an oscillating fan on the orchids at all times to help prevent rot. The only way that S/H is going to work is with a good air exchange. This oxygen at the roots is what keeps the rot away. If it is stagnant and clogged, then it is just like wet bark which will allow the anaerobic bacteria (rot) to take hold. (This is at least my understanding)

Jay

[patlee]

I have to disagree with WIB and MariahK. I have had a couple of paphs for two or three years and they just sit there and grow a leaf or two a year-- but they never flower. On the other hand, my phals flower regularly and profusely. They grow new leaves, loads of roots and this year I am the proud parent of a couple of keikis! They are just what the doctor ordered for a person with a limited collection and limited growing conditions.
Besides, I love the flowers!!

[WIB]

I just keep hoping that one day I'll get it right. I suspect that one of my problems is winter temperatures that are too cool in my house. All of my orchids are, more or less, windowsill orchids. I may try using a heater in the middle of the day to get them to a warmer temperature. I half thought of getting a seedling warming pad and putting it under the humidity tray. -- Bill

[Tony]

Nancy

I just moved a couple of my plants over to s/h two pot system. The instructions and the store that sold them to me told me not to put more water in the pot until the pot was dry. They also said it doesn't hurt to let it sit dry for a day or two. Maybe you just had too much water in the pot. Tony

[eldone]

I have been using Prime Agra for about a year now. I am using the single pot system with holes drilled in the sides of the pot just up off of the bottom. I did have some problems but that was attributed to using a fertilizer that contained urea as a nitrogen source. Urea has been identified as a link in pseudomonas disease in Phalaenopsis. If your fertilizer contains urea based nitrogen it will kill the roots which is what happened to mine.

I have also heard that some S/H pellets apparently will turn quite acidic even after the initial rinsing. Apparently they have to be soaked and rinsed several times prior to using them. I did not have this problem with the ones I have but I have heard that some of the newer batches do have this problem. This acidic condition apparently has a more adverse affect on certain orchids than others. I am not sure which ones are more sensitive but I thought it was either a Paph or Prag. It is my understanding that the lower PH does not affect the Phal as much as some of the others.

I also agree that air circulation is very important. I have also been told that it is almost impossible to over water using the S/H method. This is the reason that I switched over to S/H method.

I am still learning but have not thrown the towel in yet on S/H method of growing.

By the way did the leaves show any signs of shriveling prior to falling off?

[NancyG]

thanks everyone for replying

I did soak the pellets before using. The phal had been growing well for about 6months although the slowest to adjust to s/h. I don't use fertilizer just worm tea. It could be that I didn't let the worm tea dry off all the way and I usually keep the reservoir full. I thought that was the way you were supposed to do it. I won't do that anymore.

The leaves didn't even shrivel they just started turning yellow and when I went over to touch it they just fell off. Very disappointing.

I'll get this right one of these days.

NancyG

[janet_a]

the two pot system is tricky; i never knew how much water was actually in the thing. i'm sticking with the the single pot/holes-in-side system. and i also have a fan on 24/7. (iced cofee cups do quite well; just punch a couple holes in with an awl or ice pick.)

[morphiii]

Originally Posted by NancyG

thanks everyone for replying

I did soak the pellets before using. The phal had been growing well for about 6months although the slowest to adjust to s/h. I don't use fertilizer just worm tea. It could be that I didn't let the worm tea dry off all the way and I usually keep the reservoir full. I thought that was the way you were supposed to do it. I won't do that anymore.

The leaves didn't even shrivel they just started turning yellow and when I went over to touch it they just fell off. Very disappointing.

I'll get this right one of these days.

NancyG

Sounds like leaf or crown rot to me. Do you have a pic you can post, so that we can see?

[NancyG]

No I don't. I threw it away. It had a dark spot where the one of the leaves was attached to the main support. It was hard not soft. When I took the plant out of the container all the roots which had been beautiful when I planted it were sodden and mushy. I thought this couldn't happen in sh?

I keep all my plants outside except when they are blooming. They get good air circulation. The only thing I can think is that I should have let the reservoir dry out completely and even wait a couple of days before filling again.

It was such a beautiful plant!!!

NancyG

[11Orchid126]

I know that the current thinking is that worm tea, because it's so natural, can be strong without damaging a plant. Since I have been using it my experiences with it have led me to believe otherwise. I think that for some plants the ratio of tea to water must be very dilute or they suffer. Or perhaps they can take a stronger mixture on the leaves but not on the roots. The trick is finding out which ones without killing them. I would be interested in hearing if others have reached a similar conclusion.

[Tony]

Janet

Try the Luwasa pots. They have a two pot system with a guage so you can tell how much water is in it. I purchased mine from interior water garders. www.interiorwatergardens.com. Tony