How can I find out the composition of a hybrid?

[WIB]

How can I find out the composition of Dendrobium 'New Mao Gold'?

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by WIB

How can I find out the composition of Dendrobium 'New Mao Gold'?

To start with there are a copule of mistakes in the name of your plant. The name is Den. Mao Gold. I don't know where the "new" came from. There is no hybrid registered by the name New Mao Gold. Secondly, the name of the cross, or the grex, is not placed in single quotation marks. It is expressed without them like this: Den. Mao Gold. Single quotatiions indicate a cultivar name which is given when an orchid is awarded.

Now on to the composition. You can obtain complete parentage charts (which look a lot like a family tree, which essentially they are) along with species percentages from the Wildcat orchid database. It is available online for about $150 USD (I think).

Your Dendrobium is a 7th generation hybrid consisting of the following:
Den Mao Gold = Jiad Gold x Madame Uraiwan

Jiad Gold = Madame Chuli x Yong Kok Wah
Madame Uraiwan = Madame Chuli x May Neal

Madame Chuli = Spellbound x May Neal
Yong Kok Wah = Mary Trowse x schulleri
May Neal = Hawaii x schulleri

Spellbound = Valley King x Pakanu
Mary Trowse = Hula Girl x schulleri
Hawaii = phalaenopsis x tokai

Valley King = Mildred Kazumura x phalaenopsis
Pakanu = Ethel Kawamoto x schulleri
Hula Girl = Hawaii x discolor

Mildred Kazumura = Hawaii x stratiotes
Ethel Kawamoto = Shibata x discolor

Shibata = taurinum x tokai

Names in bold and underlined are the originating species parents. You can see that your hybrid contains 6 species: schulleri, phalaenopsis, tokai, discolor, taurinum, and stratiotes.

Your hybrid is:
50% schulleri
21.875% phalaenopsis
12.5% stratiotes
7.8125% tokai
6.25% discolor
1.5625% taurinum

You can find out all this stuff in Wildcat.

[Tess1]

wow kmarch!

[tom499]

But this will only work with registered hybrids right?

[Anton]

Sort of makes you sorry you asked, don't it ?

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by tom499

But this will only work with registered hybrids right?

Many hybrids have been made but not registered. We often see tags that list parents: Orchid A x Orchid B. Sometimes they are complex [(Orchid A x Orchid B) X (Orchid C x Orchid D)]. If any of the parents (Orchid A, B, C, or D) are named then you can go from there. But if an orchid is named, it should be registered. To say it in reverse, no orchid should be named without being registered. Any unregistered name is meaningless and is not authorative. Naming an orchid without registering it is irresponsible and should never be done.

[janet_a]

also

http://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/registe...chidsearch.asp

is fun to play with

[linda_shel]

The OrchidWiz software http://www.orchidwiz.com/servlet/StoreFront also allows you to do full reports on parentage. It has all sorts of other features including growing information from the Baker's sheets, and lots of lovely pictures.

[WIB]

Wow. No, I'm not sorry I asked! Thanks very much, kmarch for sorting out the terminology for me! I'm glad to know how it is done. I'll try to track down the components. The thing is behaving like a deciduous orchid (i.e., green stalks but no flowers). But unlike the descriptions I've read of the deciduous type, this one had racemes coming of the tip of the cane. I find dendrobium descriptions in the books to be the least helpful, because I never really know what I have. Again, thanks. -- Bill
P.S. It was labeled "New Mao Gold" in the store, and Google has some pictures of the same flower with that name, so I took it for granted. Beginner's error.

[brookn]

Wow kevin too cool for school hee hee! I am going to have to consider that purchase for in the future, very interesting.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by linda_shel

The OrchidWiz software also allows you to do full reports on parentage.

Thanks for this linda. Many of my orchid mates use OrchidWiz but I have never tried it so I didn't know if it could do this. Thanks for the helpful info!

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by WIB

Wow. No, I'm not sorry I asked! Thanks very much, kmarch for sorting out the terminology for me! I'm glad to know how it is done.

You're welcome Bill! Regarding the culture and habit of your Dendrobium, stratiotes, tokai, taurinum, and discolor are all antelope Dendrobiums coming from warmer more tropical regions where they receive intermediate to warm temperatures and year-round rainfall. Den phalaenopsis is (duh) a phalaenopsis-type Dendrobium which the AOS Dendrobium culture sheet (www.aos.org) focuses on.

Den schulleri is a bit of a phantom. While one of my dendrobium books lists it , the other one doesn't even mention it at all. I found an article online that indicated that since its initial discovery and collection it has not bee re-collected and that the name schulleri (or schuleri as it sometimes appears) had been applied to a number of early yellow antelope hybrids (but I can't confirm this information so i don't know how reliable it is).

Oooooo...a mystery....

[Andrew]

I can only find New Mao Gold listed by Kalapana Tropicals so you may want to contact them to see if they can clarify the parentage at least to a named cross. It may be Mao Gold or it may be a Mao Gold hybrid. While 'orchid etiquette' says that you shouldn't use unregistered names, it still happens. Commercial sources do on occassion give plants trademarked names (blame the wonderful world of marketing) which muddy's the waters considerably as these are given outside of the codes of the bodies governing nomenclature.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Andrew

While 'orchid etiquette' says that you shouldn't use unregistered names, it still happens. Commercial sources do on occassion give plants trademarked names (blame the wonderful world of marketing) which muddy's the waters considerably as these are given outside of the codes of the bodies governing nomenclature.

Affixing a name to an unregistered hybrid is irresponsible and potentially confusing, especially to hobbiests who may not be familiar with orchid names. The responsible thing to do is to list the parents on the tag of an unregistered hybrid and leave any unregistered names off.

Some time ago there was a thread here that mentioned a company that replaced the grex wiht the nusery's "brand name". This too is a highly unethical practice and damaging to the hobby as none of these plants can ever be shown, awarded, or even bred with.

It is neither expensive nor difficult to register a hybrid and failure to do so on any breeders' part constitutes laziness at best, unethical irresponsibility at worst.

[Bolero]

Kmarch, have you tried Orchidwiz??? I have wildcatt as well but I'm finding that Orchidwiz has some great features and see more "modern" in its usage.

;-)

These programs are great, especially for serious growers and judges.

[kmarch]

Yeah, earlier in the thread linda mentioned OrchidWiz. I have not yet checked it out. If it isn't too much trouble, maybe you could bring it to some judging and we could look at it together?

[Bolero]

Originally Posted by kmarch

Yeah, earlier in the thread linda mentioned OrchidWiz. I have not yet checked it out. If it isn't too much trouble, maybe you could bring it to some judging and we could look at it together?

Sure, which show are you next attending?

[kmarch]

I'll have to check and get back to you.