Phal may need help

[jdonnelly]

I purchased a large phalaenopsis in bloom a few months back. It's an older plant with - until yesterday -six very large green leaves. It has moss on the top and I have been letting is dry out on top and an inch or so down between waterings. I noticed last week the two lower leaves starting to get yellow and today they were all yellow and I was able to pull them off. There are now four leaves - but I noticed another of the larger, older leaves is starting to get the yellow tint. There are fat new roots staring and new leaf growth. Is there something wrong? This is my first orchid

[MariahK]

Sounds like it may be to wet and suffering from rot, I would suggest pulling it out and checking the roots, it may be that you have to much moss and so the roots are staying to wet. you may want to repot it in another medium if this is the case. But first check the roots if they are black and mushy that is rot. Or else it may be sick from something else. Pictures help alot.

[jdonnelly]

Thanks for your reply, I was watering about every three weeks - I thought I would be underwatering if anything. Is it OK to repot while the orchid is flowering? I will definately take a look at the roots as the other leaf is now bright yellow. I checked for pests and I don't see anything. I'm starting to think it may not like the location. It is on my desk in the office and only gets artificial light.

[tom499]

every 3 weeks?? thats not alot atall.

If the lower leaves were going a plain yellow, then falling off, this is pretty normal. phals dont have many leaves, usually 3-5 sometimes more. As long as there is new leaf growth then its fine.

rotting roots usually gives a look of dehydration with droopy leaves. The leaves dont just yellow and fall off.

viruses, bacteria, fungi all usually show other signs on the leaves.

Whats it potted in? It maybe worth a look at the roots, is it in a clear pot?

[jdonnelly]

Thanks for the reply,
It is planted in sphagum moss from what i can tell - the pot is black plastic. The flower spike is about 2 1/2 feet tall and there are still 5 big blooms.

[mayres]

I agree with the comments made earlier - check the roots soon. This is more than likely the problem. As also noted, a yellow leaf or two is normal for phals but when you mentioned a third it brought up a red flag that there is probably more involved. My guess is that you have significant root rot. Unfortunately it is not uncommon to buy them with the problem already existing, but just not manifesting itself to the rest of the plant as yet. Once the plant starts to re-establish itself you will see large greenish roots usually coming out at the base of your plant hoping to regain a grip on life. So, don't feel too bad if you find rotten roots - it may have been done before you. Trim away all the black and mushy/stringy roots and put your plant in fresh media. Depending upon the size of pot it is in you may even want to downsize the pot depending upon what good healthy roots remain. In severe cases with very few roots left it is common to also remove the flower spike (you can clip it off and put it in a vase - will not last as long as on the plant - but will be good for a short while). Good luck - mike
PS - please update your profile to show where you live - it helps so that we can give you better advice on culture. THANKS!

[cupcake]

Just personal but if I buy an orchid in moss then I remove it all as soon as I can. I prefer coconut husk or bark, far easier to keep watering under control, Judi

[PhalPal]

Hi jdonnally and welcome to the forum.

I agree you may have rotten root problems. My personal choice is not to sacrifice the plant in order to enjoy the blooms for a few more weeks. I would take it out of the moss, trim any black mushy roots and re-pot in a different media, cutting off the spike as well. Moss stays wet for a long time and is difficult to gauge at the root level. I have included a link below that is a tried and true method for knowing when to water, regardless of which media you choose.

I'm also a bit concerned that your plant gets only 'artificial' light?? If you mean just flourescent office light this will not make for a healthy phal. Lights need to be very close to the orchid plant to be of any benefit, like 12-18 inches. Losing three leaves is a real cause for concern and something is definately wrong.
Looking forward to chatting with you!

The infamous 'skewer method'

Skewer use for watering of orchids

[jdonnelly]

Thanks everyone for the support. I live in Chicago, Illinois so finding potting medium within the next few days might not be possible - can i take it out trim the roots and just leave it in the open air? What kind of medium should i put it back in?

[PhalPal]

Orchids live in the tropics with their roots open to air. We put them in 'dirt' for our convenience, not for the plants needs.

I would wrap the roots in a baggie with a few strands of moss and mist occasionally just enough to keep them slightly damp, not sitting in water. I have kept plant like this for a week waiting for mail order stuff to arrive and they did fine.
Now...if you want help finding a medium to re-pot in, you will find as many strong opinions as there are growers. Options for different materials are all over this forum. It may just come down to what you can find in your area. Whatever you choose, adjust your watering habits to the medium and your plant will do fine.

[mayres]

Back to the topic of artificial light. Your plant will do OK for a month or two in less than desirable light - if you want to have it in a place where you can enjoy it more fully. Understand it will be using up stored energy during this period and declining somewhat - possibly even inperceptively. For the plant to truly maintain and thrive under lights - such as the T8 or T12 tubes that are commonly found in offices and the like you will need to have your plant VERY close to the tubes - we're talking inches here - the closer to better - up to even a fraction of an inch. Of course with flower spikes this is rather difficult unless you can direct your spike off to the side and let them hang unstaked naturally - I find this usually works quite well. Good luck - mike

[jdonnelly]

Thanks everyone - you guys are great.
Well, I just bravely and carefully lifted the plant out of the pot - I don't see anything but fat white/pale green roots. Should i move it? I'm thinking they misinformed me when i bought the plant and it needs more light. What else could it be - i don't see pests.

[PhalPal]

Okay, with that new information, the problem must be not enough light. Like Mike said above, light bulbs must be very close to the plant to have any benefit. If all it is getting is ambient office light, that's not enough.

Most of us will move our orchids to a place where we can enjoy the flowers when they are in bloom. Where we put them is usually not the optimal place for the orchid, but they do ok for a short time until the flowers fade. I would take your orchid home and put it in a brighter location. No direct sun, but some light coming through a window will do. If moss is working for you, by all means keep using it. Your roots sound great. Keep in mind your water needs may be different at home versus in the office.

Keep us up on any new developments!

[jdonnelly]

Thanks to everyone - what a great forum.
I have moved it to a window - right now the only place I can find is facing west, will that be OK? Should I cut the spike so it can concentrate on new growth? I hope it isn't too late ,another leaf has started to yellow, can it survive with lots of roots? The crown looks ok.

[PhalPal]

Personally I would remove the spike and put it in a vase of water. I don't prefer to sacrifice a plant to save a few flowers. West is fine; I would put it fairly close to the window because light levels fall off severly with every inch. Since your orchid is not acclimated to much light, start it farther from the window (like 2 feet) and wean it closer and closer over a few weeks.
Don't be discouraged when that yellowing leaf continues to die. Once they start to decline there is no stopping it.

Disclaimer!!! I know a lot of us are having a most unusually hot summer and please keep this in mind when placing plants near windows. (goes for cold weather too)

[tom499]

Yes, in hot weather have the window open a touch. a small cool breeze will help keep the temperature down on the leaves, so they can get that extra light.

In winter a bit of cloth between the pot and the window really does help keep the chill off.

[Harvester]

Thanks for all the info on the yellow leaves dropping off.

My experience is similar. Bought the Phal in full bloom, 5 or 6 leaves, two spikes and about 6 flowers. It bloomed for a couple of months before the flowers dropped. Somewhere I read to cut half the length off the spikes for a possible reblooming.

Never rebloomed, but 3 or 4 of the leaves yellowed and dropped, and then it began to grow a new plant on one of the spikes. The new plant is developing nicely with three nice looking 'air' roots. But it has been at least six months since any sign of new spikes of flowers. (1) How can I help this plant to flower and (2) when should I pot the 'new' baby plant?

I live in Maryland and, after reading this thread believe the plant may need more light exposure. I have it in my very light-filled bathroom over a tray of pebbles that I keep water in, but it is about 3 feet from the window. I have kept the blinds mostly closed to keep the plant from direct sun. (3) Is a little direct sun in the morning OK?

Thanks for the great forum.

[PhalPal]

Harvester - you just may have enough light for your phal in the bathroom where you have it. The 'very close to the bulb' rule applies mostly to artificial light but is important no matter the source. I say this because I grow my phals in my dining room 6 feet from a very large, 6'X8' southern window. Per my light meter, they get no where near the light they need, yet grow and bloom and just look great. They seem to grow well in a very bright location; be careful with the ' little bit of morning sun'. Since phals are a low light orchid I wouldn't chance any direct sun. Update your location and we can better let you know what kind of direct light you have.

[mayres]

Harvester - check out this link regarding potting up your new baby/keiki - http://www.easyorchids.co.uk/site/content/view/30/71/

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Just to be on the safe side, you should always check for mites on the underside of leaves every time you see some unexpected behavior of an orchid. I have had all sorts of leaf loss problems with Phals, and in the end it was not mites, but one needs to always be vigilant for them. I some times think that any upset can cause leaf loss, well that is the only conclusion I can come to, as I have still not found the cause. So, I have been careful to not have too much light, a cause of leaf loss, not to allow water on the leaves that is too cold, sunken spots on leaves, and have started the use of a systemic fungicide recently that may be helping.
Checking For Mites

[Harvester]

Thanks for the response, guys! My phal does not appear to have mites or pests. I pulled the plant out of the clear plastic pot it's in and the root portions I can see look white-to-green with no sign of rot--I plan to repot in a spagnum and fir bark mixture later today and will check the look of the interior roots I can't easily see. Thanks for the link on potting my 'baby'; I will check it out.

What does it take to get it to bloom again? It has been seven months since the flowers dropped. T