My Phal leaves need help

[spicy0610]

Hi all,

I bought the yellow Phal more than a month ago and it started blooming well. In fact, all the buds are fully bloomed now (see photo 1). But recently I noticed that one leave (the one on top) is detached from the stem (see photo 2 and 3) and the leaves at that side started to get soft, limpy and wrinkled. Moreover, there are some white dried mark on the edge of the leaves. (even though there is no color change) The leave below that also seems like splitting from the center.

The leaves at the other side are still strong and firm (see photo 4). I am not sure what's going on with the plant, it doesn't seem stressed but how come the leaves broken off from stem? What should I do?

The other question I have is I sprayed worm tea on the plant, and it left a lot of residual water spot on the leave (which makes it look quite dirty), how can I clean them?

I really love this plant and don't want it to die after it blooms.

Thank you very much for your expert help.

kitty

[kmarch]

Dear spicy,

Welcome to the forum. Lots of helpful folks here. I'm confident you'll get some useful advice.

Don't worry about the split leaf. I have a big Phal who's newest leaf is split just like yours. It's been that way for 6 months+ without any adverse effects. Sometimes these hybrid Phals grow such big thick leaves that they can't support themselves and they split.

The limp leaves are a different story. they are limp because not enough moisture is getting to them. There are 2 things that can cause this: 1) underwatering (Phals like to be kept evenly moist and should not be allowed to dry out), or 2) overwatering (which causes the roots to rot making it impossible for the plant to take in water).

So check the roots by gently pulling the plant out of the pot or pulling away the potting mix (it looks like it is in sphagnum moss) so you can see the roots. They should be white or greenish or cream-ish coloured and firm/crisp. If they are, that is good and the problem is probably the result of underwatering. On the other hand, if the roots are black or grey and mushy they are rotted. The plant needs to be repotted and the dead rotten roots should be cut away.

So take a look at the roots and let us know what they are like.

[spicy0610]

Hi kmarch,

Thank you. I took out the sphagnum and found out that the side which has the limpy leave has rotten roots. (See photo) and the side with relative ok leave still has a bit better root. So what should I do now? Cut the bad root? Looks like a lot of root has gone bad. Is it ok if I cut them all? Since I don't have new sphagnum can I repot it back to the sphagnum that I took out? Hope I can get your quick reply soon, since my plant is in the sink now and I don't know what to do.

Will I stress the plant if I repot now since it is still flowering?

Thank you for help.

[fred]

I have had a good look at that sphagnum moss I would not re-use it
the moss looks off to me

do you have any fine orchid mix ?

[spicy0610]

No I don't have any right now. The stores around here is closed. But I should be able to get some tomorrow morning... maybe I shouldn't have "opened" it since I am really not ready to repot.

[spicy0610]

Now that I took out all the sphagnum moss and have a better look at the root. Seems like "lots" of the roots have gone bad. Should I cut them all? Will it survive? For tonight, I have no choice but to pot it back with the old sphagnum moss. Oh no, I am killing my plant. :_(

[fred]

ok here is what I would do for now place the plant back into the pot as it is and as soon as you can get some mix for the orchid as soon as you do get the mix soak the mix for a few hours in the mean time gently remove as much of the sphag as you can I even use twezzers when I do that then cut away the rotten mushy roots.
strain the orchid mix to get as much water from it place some mix in a pot then hold your plant in the pot and gently place more mix in the pot with your other hand.

to compact the mix gently tap the side of the pot and you will see the mix settle in the pot around the roots that you have left.

when you are done you can let go of the orchid as this should be enough support for the orchid.

I would then keep a close eye on the watering if the flowers start to wilt you may have to cut the flower spikes off.

if you need more help please ask

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Just put the old moss losely in the pot around the roots. If it is loose and damp, it will maintain the plant for a while. Looks like you have some good roots, so all is not lost. Are you sure you don't have a cat that may have walked over your plant?

[spicy0610]

Thanks for all the great advice. No cat have walked over my plant but I suspect the sphagnum moss is too packed when I bought it from the shop plus I watered it a bit too much and that caused a lot of rotten roots.

Eventually I went to Home Depot to get some orchid mix. I am presoaking the mix and will repot tomorrow. Since I cut quite a bit of the rotton roots do I need to repot to a smaller pot? Currently the pot is quite big for the remaining root I think. Please advice. Thanks again! Hope I can save the plant.

[fred]

It may well be better off in a smaller pot. so yes good idea

if the remaining root/roots are to long for the smaler pot when you hold the plant in the pot just slowly turn the pot so the root/roots will turn slightly so it will then sit better in the pot.

I think with a little TLC you will save the plant.

may be when the Phal is repotted you would like to share a pic with us again

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Smaller pot is prefered.

[PhalPal]

Hi Spicy - your plant is very salvagable and not to worry. Many phals come tightly packed in moss and it is very easy to overwater. I have saved plants with only one (or none) good roots once they were re-potted in a more suitable media.
Orchids in the wild live with their roots completely exposed to their environment. We plant them in pots for our convenience, not the plants. I have left roots exposed for a few days until I got around to potting them; I just mist the roots a few times a day.
When you are switching to a new mix, make sure you remove all of the moss from around the roots. Mixed medias dry at different rates and what you see on top will not be what is at the root level where it counts. A 4" pot is preferable for an orchid this size; they like their roots slightly cramped. The following link helped me greatly when I was very new. It is amazing how little water is needed by orchids. Don't hesitate to ask more questions; we love Newbies!
http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/new...f-orchids.html

[spicy0610]

Hi all,

This afternoon I soaked the root into worm tea for half an hour and then repotted the plant it into a smaller pot. The orchid mix that I bought from Home Depot is too fine I think (since I read some information that Phal like medium bark), so I went and get some sphagnum moss since I don't want to shock the plant too much by changing the media completely.

After repotting, I watered the moss to keep it humid. Am I doing it right? I have a few more questions though:
1) From the other thread I read in this forum, I should not water it for a while and put it in a more shady environment. How long should I do that for? 7 days or 2 weeks?
2) Can I still mist it with worm tea every day?
3) The flowers still seem ok, however should I cut the two spikes to reduce the stress to the plant?
4) As for the half detached leave, should I cut it out or just let it fall off naturally?

Thanks again for all the advices. Hope my plant can survive this shock.

[robb]

i am not an expert, but it might be a good idea to cut to the flower spikes, as the plant puts a lot of energy into maintaining the blooms, which could otherwise be used to heal and grow new roots. normally it is suggested to repot the plant after the blooms are done, but your situation is quite different!

[tizzycat]

Hi There,

I'm no expert, but I think I would leave well alone where the leaf is concerned. Also I'm not a lover of moss, as I find it too wet, but then I live in the UK and it probably doesn't dry out as quickly. Good luck, I'm sure your plant will survive.

[mayres]

Many different media's are used for phals - including coarse bark, medium bark, fine bark (alone and mixed with other medias such as perlite, sphag, charcoal, etc.), sphag, coir (alone and mixed), and even mounting with NO media. They all work if you have the conditions and culture to match. You can switch from one to another easily as well as long as you switch culture practices to match.
1) I would grow my phal in indirect light long term - as long as you are not right up against a window they can probably take early morning or late afternoon - but indirect would be safer.
2) You can mist your phal immediately, but don't do it late in the day and provide plenty of air movement so it doesn't stay wet. Many people question the value of misting - it may be more for "us" than the plant (?) Makes us feel like we are doing something beficial on a regular basis. Daily misting can certainly assist your aerial roots in absorbing moisture.
3) If your plant is struggling removing the spikes will assist in the recovery process. YoOu can put them in a vase of water and they will last for awhile, though certainly not as long as on the plant.
4) Whenever I get physically damaged leaves - just leave alone - they will turn yellow and fall off when they are ready. Note: if you get a black area that starts to enlarge or a grayish translucent spot that appears - these indications of disease you want to watch VERY diligently - they potentially can spread and kill the entire plant.
Good luck and enjoy! mike

[PhalPal]

Phals are unlike many other orchids in the way that they do not have pseudobulbs which act as a reservior to help maintain the plant. 'Keeping a plant on the dry side' really doesn't pertain to phals, esp those planted in moss. (impossible to do) Water next when the moss is slightly damp near the roots; this is where the skewer method is most helpful.

I have had great success misting with worm tea on stressed plants. Make sure you get the underside of each leaf. Don't allow moisture to remain in the crown as this can cause big problems. Using a Q-tip to sop this extra tea up is helpful.

Mike and I think a like, and I would also cut the blooms to save the plant. They last a decent amount of time in a vase.

Most of us will never cut a leaf off for aesthetic purposes. The plant needs as much leaf surface as possible to survive. Of course there are exceptions such as bacterial rot.

Continued good luck Spicy and let us know how it goes!

[spicy0610]

My orchid was ok for two to three weeks since repotting, I put it under shade and didn't give it too much water. But since two days ago, the leaves began to wilt. So out of curiousity, I took out the spag and look at the roots. And... found only one root is kinda green, all the other roots turned black, have a little white stuff stick on it and became soft and hollow. A moment ago I removed the spag and just let it breathe, I guess with only 1 very short root (like less than an inch left), I cannot repot it. Any last chance that I can save it? Or should I just buried and let it RIP? :___(

[chefatplay]

Spicy, I have a phal that was like the one you are describing right now. I have it potted in medium bark, charcoal and perlite mix. I also put some sphag around the roots only. It is surviving and there is a new leaf. If you haven't given up, don't. There's still hope.

Note: I have been advised the sphag blanket is not the best thing to do since water monitoring is difficult. I have inserted a skewer right into the sphag only and water only when the skewer gets drier. I don't intend on leaving the plant like this forever, but so far, this plant likes it.

Many here would suggest a spag and bag technique to help save the plant. Wrap in wet sphag and put in plastic bag to retain moisture. This is a way of keeping the plant very moist to ensure new root formation.

Good luck! I'm sure others will chime in, also.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

If you have only one inch of non-growing root, I would go the sphag and bag route. You need a bag large enough for the whole plant (no pot or mix) that can be sealed. Zip-lock bags are usually used, but you may not have one big enough, so a large clear bag of any type that can have its top rolled up to seal it will do. A small wad of mostly wrung out sphagnum moss is put in the bag with the plant. I don't recommend putting the moss around the base of the plant, because you will want to see this area to know when it is time to remove the plant from the bag. Moss touching the plant or not makes no difference. You will have 100% humidity in the bag, so the plant will not need a source of water at the roots/base or any where else. In this bag, the plant can be maintained indefinitely, so you are just going to be waiting until the plant makes up its mind to start root activity, either from the base of the plant (more likely) or along the length of the remaining root. At that point pot the plant up and you can put a baggy loosely over the plant for awhile until the roots have grown a bit, but not sealed, as the plant likes a wet dry cycle at the roots to be healthy, but not completely dry for a Phal.

[spicy0610]

Thanks for the tips Ellen and Cynthia. So if I put the whole plant in a zip-lock bag, do I need to spray it once in a while? Or just let it do the magic itself? Do I need to put the bag in a totally dark area or shady area or I can just leave it to get some sunlight at times?

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Only indirect light. Probably about what a Phal would normally need. Spraying will not help, as you already have 100% humidity in the bag. Openning the bag once every week or two to check on how the plant is going would be fine.

[sandra]

Cynthia, what about a phal with one good root potted in Hydroton (s/h pellets) with coir/perlite/charcoal on top? A nursery nearby recommended this for my plant. They grow their phals this way and as well, their catts (minus the coir mix). Would you recommend putting a baggie (loosely) over the plant for a while to encourage more root growth activity?

[jbigio]

Hi
In the past I think most of us have had some experience with a plant that gets split leaves. I have a Phala that has leaves that are about 4 inches across at the wide end and about seven inches long. Unfortunitly I don’t know what it is other than a Phala since it was a rescue from a fried that was trying very hard to kill it, but it wouldn’t give up. I saw on the net someone saying that a drop or crazy glue just past the point of the split on both sides of the leaf keeps it from splitting any more. I’ve tried it with this plant and it worked, and as of today no ill effects and it’s been a couple of months now. Then again I think this plant will out live me.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Well, you probably have good natural humidity where you live so potting may be OK, and the baggy over the plant to help is OK, but you must have some openning around the bottom to get a little air exchange. I think the complication is tracking the moisture level in the pot, which you don't want to stay continuously very wet.