Hard cane Dendrobium

[zonepusher]

I have one of the above in my "sad orchids" collection that I am transferring to S/H media but have a question on the canes. This particular plant has no leaves except for the 3 1/2 long new growth shoots. There are new roots growing as well.

Should I cut the canes down?

There are 16 canes, all but 5 are very shriveled and a yellow color. The remaining 5 are green and plump. This plant is PACKED into a small 4" pot thats full of roots.

Should I divide the new growths sections into separate plants?
Andi

[fred]

Whats My Dendrobium?
caring for Dendrobium Alexandrae

I have added the two links to give you some ideas on den canes another good idea is to read the culture sheet from the AOS web site.
http://www.aos.org/aos/uploadedfiles...redendrobe.pdf

Do you have a new growth from the base of the plant or do you have a Keiki with roots growing on a cane ?

may be a good idea if you can post a pic for us to look at.

the next size pot up would be ok I dont think I would divide the plant.

[zonepusher]

Thanks Fred.
I am really skeptical on the survival of this one. It does have new growth coming from the base of the plant and a scant few new roots growing. Most all the existing were rotted to the point that they came off in a clump when I rinsed the media out. I counted maybe 10 green roots that are about 2" long with green tips, and several new ones that have started. ALL these green and new roots are on one side and in a small area. I am not exactly sure what to plant this baby in as far as media ( even the horse manure idea is looking good to save it). Maybe I need to spag-n-bag this one but worried about further rot. I finally figured (remembered) out how to delete the pictures off the camera so now I have a fresh memory to start adding pictures again. I will take some in the morning as 36 hours is too long for me to be up and I don't trust my abilities at the moment.

Right now the Lil gal is in damp moss to add a bit of moisture.
Andi

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Don't worry about survival of hybrid Dens. These are VERY cyclical plants and may look dead every winter before new growth starts. Your plant is probably perfectly fine. The yellowing bulbs may be very old canes and should be romoved. But, to determine which should be removed, you will have to look very closely at the pattern of growth at the base of the plant. Starting at the new growths, count backwards. It is one year older for each bulb in a line. Bulbs that are 5 to 6+ years old should probably be removed, unless there is a new growth coming out of them, or a bulb adjacent. Ues a sterilized tool or just pull bulbs apart, then dust with sulfur or cinnamon.

Now as to media. First, I would like some other name than hard cane, as I never did figure out what was meant by hard cane, as they all seem pretty hard to me, so without a physical difference to trigger my memory, I can never remember if hard cane is warm growing Phal type, or cool growing nobile type. But I am digressing, as both type are probably not good for simi-hydro. Both need to get very dry during winter when they are not growing or blooming, with a much longer dry spell for nobiles . That kind of makes it awkward for simi-hydro which usually never dries out completely. Bark is good, but no matter what you use, put that plant back into the smallest pot you can stuff the roots into. Remember, during winter a sharp wet/dry cycle is needed, and a big pot drys too slowly. During growth and blooming, these plants do not need drying out, and will suck the moisture out of a small pot rapidly, so be prepared to water often.

[zonepusher]

Hold your stomach and hide these pictures from children. They are pictures of a very ill Dendrobium Andree Millar. As stated above, the majority of the roots came off in a clump when it was rinsed off. It does still have a few viable roots and some new growth so it might survive with your help. I am one of those who love a challenge and keep at it until all glimmers of hope are exhausted. I realize it will take many years before this plant can possibly bloom but all we have is time. The 3rd picture is a bit blurry as there was a wasp buzzing around my head. Wasps are great for pollinating my citrus and Plumeria but their sting does pack a wallop.

What steps should I take to save the Lil gal?

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Remove the dead canes. Looks to me like the plant needs to be divided, as the growth looks too oddly growing from one side of the plant to the other. Otherwise it looks to me that you should just go ahead and pot it up. I don't see any real problem. Again, I don't recomend S/H, unless you are going to grow it in a non-semi-hydro manor, and just use the rocks/pellets as a standard type mix.

[E-Jag]

Cynthia, allow me to make sure I correctly understand a point you made in your first response. I understand that nobile dens need a drying off period in the winter, during which time they should be watered very little. I thought, however, that phal type dens didn't require a winter drying. I'm very interested in this since I have a couple of phal type den's that I'm hoping will bloom this winter for the first time and I don't want to be watering them if they should be drying out. Could you confirm? Many thanks.

E-Jag

[zonepusher]

Originally Posted by Cynthia, Prescott, AZ

Remove the dead canes. Looks to me like the plant needs to be divided, as the growth looks too oddly growing from one side of the plant to the other. Otherwise it looks to me that you should just go ahead and pot it up. I don't see any real problem. Again, I don't recomend S/H, unless you are going to grow it in a non-semi-hydro manor, and just use the rocks/pellets as a standard type mix.

I am glad you said to divide it. ALL the good roots and new growth is on the same side. I may pot it up in a mix of small rocks in the S/H fashion but leaving out the reservoir pot/part of the pot by using a regular small pot.

The new growth is still looking good and appears to be growing.
Andi

[jerrymeola]

e-jag
I would continue watering your Phal Dens all winter. While Nobile are capable of taking a drying each winter, I water all mine throughout the winter. I have plentiful blooms on both types.
zonepusher
your den is common of what happens when it is not re-potted regularly. I like to take the oldest dry canes furthest from the new growth and twist them off one by one toward the new growth. 1-3 old growths can help a plant but more than that is just ugly.
Many people will not like my twisting off the old growth, but I find this takes most of the dying roots with the cane.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Not drying out like a nobile, but a pronounced wet/dry cycle. Think of how you grow Phals, you never let them get hard dry. When you grow Cattleyas, you should always let them get dry. For the warm Dens, it is Phal type watering while in growth or bloom, and Catt type watering, wet/dry, for when there is no growth or bloom. Now, I have a friend with a typical Phal type Den that is never out of bloom, so she is always watering like a Phal. I have a Den bigibbum,, generally considered a warm Phal type, that produced smaller growths every year when I was being a little more generous with water in winter, wet/dry, but not any length of time dry. When it finally reached a stage where there were three recent growths, all the size of greengiant peas, I knew I had to do something. I kept this guy really dry during winter. Probably watered once a month. All the tiny bulbs shriveled up and died. An older bulb finally started a new growth, a little late which worried me, but by now that new growth is already the second largest growth on the plant, with plenty of the season yet to go. I used to think that Dens did not like my special mix, which I know dries more slowly. Since I started making sure the warm Dens are very dry before watering again in winter, I have had no problem what so ever. So I guess the idea is that it is a relative thing. Dry, yes, but not for any length of time unless you see a problem for a particular plant.

[Orchid664]

I am growing den hybrids (not nobile) and some species in semi-hydroponics using expanded clay pellets and they do just fine. I do let them dry out before adding new nutrient solution. S-H is good for plants like dens that like to be pot-bound, since the medium doesn't degrade you can leave the plant in the same pot for years.

[E-Jag]

Cynthia/Jerry - Thanks much for your input. I think maybe around October I'll dial the dens watering cycle back a little but not to the point of drying out. They're in bark/clay pots and I soak them for an hour and a half every other day. Maybe soaking them once a week would be a happy compromise. Thanks again.

E-Jag

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

The time to change schedule is when the latest growths are maturing their last leaf. You will see a small terminal leaf that is fully expanded, with no new leaf inside it. That is when growth has ceased and dormancy begins. However, because hybrids are mixtures of a lot of species, some of these plants will favor an evergreen ancester, and will not stop growing, and therefore should not get as dry. This is why it is a good idea for you to inspect your plants and learn how to read their current status.

[E-Jag]

I'd never heard of a terminal leaf. Thank you, good information.

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E-Jag