More Cattelya problems...

[kel80]

I just noticed that the end of one of the leaves on my Cattleya mossiae is turning brown, and so is the pseudobulb. Here are some pictures. I noticed that some of the roots are also turning black. When I purchased this plant I was scared to do anything with it, so I just left it in it's original container. I'm thinking I might have to repot.

Not sure.

Thoughts????

[kmarch]

How fast it the yelowing on the bulb happening and how fast is the plackened tip progressing?

[sandra]

Kel, My biggest concern with my orchids are my cattleyas. I haven't been faced with the same issue you described but maybe you'll find something in these threads regarding the habits you should be following for your catts. They're very specific and in particular you MUST take it out of the pot and examine the roots. You MUST cut away all of the dead, rotted roots, re-pot it in fresh mix and keep it dry, no watering, misting only for a few weeks. Catts need to be dry by the time it's due for another watering and when you've cut down the roots, you're trying to accomplish 2 things: (1) stopping the spread of rot by keeping it dry and you must let it dry out completely, and (2) encourage new growth.

Take a good look at both these threads, both with a wealth of information that you'll find very useful.

The second thread will give you hope!!!

P.S. My catt (in the 2nd thread) is also now growing 2 new pseudobulbs!


My Poor, Once Beautiful Cattleyas

Hold The Laughter...please

[kel80]

Originally Posted by kmarch

How fast it the yelowing on the bulb happening and how fast is the plackened tip progressing?

Well, I'd say pretty fast. I noticed the tip blackening yesterday, but noticed the bulb problem today.

I've only had it for three weeks now. Last week I posted about the flowers dying, which is obviously normal. So I cut the stem as close to the leaves as possible. Plant is kept on balcony where it receives AM sun (from 8 am to around 11 am) and some afternoon sun (about 2 pm-5 pm).
I've been letting it dry out between waterings and allowing it to properly drain as well.

[kel80]

sandra, just saw your post now. I'll check out those posts. Thanks

[kel80]

Okie dokie...

Read through both of the threads. I've gathered two things for sure: one, my plant is not going to die. Two, I need to repot-and badly.

I also think that I will need to take it off of the balcony and leave it out of bright light for a while and not water it, only mist. I'm hoping this will improve the condition.

Can Cattleyas get sunburn like Phals??? Maybe that is what the dark spot is on the leaf?

Also, I finally found superthrive. What do we suggest in this case? Superthrive or worm tea?

[sandra]

Kel, when you cut away these deadened roots, don't be afraid to cut as much away as possible. In another thread, Jerry had mentioned that in Asia, catts roots are thoroughly and entirely cut away when they're re-potted. (After every bloom, it's recommended to trim the roots and re-pot.) I'm not suggesting you do this if you clearly see any healthy roots but the more you get off, the safer the plant will be. Remember, dead, rotted roots will spread the rot if they're not cut off and the rot that you may miss while removing won't spread because you're not going to water the plant for a few weeks which will give it time to dry up and be removed, naturally.

After you've trimmed everything away, soak it in Superthrive for about 45 minutes, then re-pot. You can start misting with the worm tea lightly in a couple of days and maintain this for a few weeks. Keep it out of direct sunlight while it's being kept dry. You can move it and introduce more light afterwards. Then and only then, start watering and make sure the plant is thoroughly dry by the time you water again.

Save those threads I posted to you. You won't go wrong if you follow the advice there.

[kel80]

Thanks Sandra. I actually cut and pasted a lot of info from there into my newly formed "Orchid File" so I don't go insane reading up on so much stuff!

I plan on doing the surgery tomorrow night.

I've also read various opinions on choice of medium. I was planning on using medium bark. What do you think? What about Miracle Grow Orchid Potting Mix?

[sandra]

Originally Posted by kel80

Thanks Sandra. I actually cut and pasted a lot of info from there into my newly formed "Orchid File" so I don't go insane reading up on so much stuff!

I plan on doing the surgery tomorrow night.

I've also read various opinions on choice of medium. I was planning on using medium bark. What do you think? What about Miracle Grow Orchid Potting Mix?

That will work fine Kel. Remember, catts are very forgiving and will revive with your TLC.

[kel80]

So does anyone think they know what is wrong with the leaf and bulb???

Should I just leave them when I repot or cut them both off?

[Aniko]

Cattleyas are sulky and does not like to be re-potted any time as Phalaenopsis do.
Disturbing the roots will set back the plant and even might kill it.
The proper time for re-potting is when a new growth start rooting.

I can't see well, but it seems that the plant is too deep down in the medium.The rhizome should not be covered.So far I can't see any reason for re-potting, I would focus on those spots... An update pic would help.

[kel80]

Originally Posted by Aniko

Cattleyas are sulky and does not like to be re-potted any time as Phalaenopsis do.
Disturbing the roots will set back the plant and even might kill it.
The proper time for re-potting is when a new growth start rooting.

I can't see well, but it seems that the plant is too deep down in the medium.The rhizome should not be covered.So far I can't see any reason for re-potting, I would focus on those spots... An update pic would help.

Yikes-I came home all ready to do the surgery-then read this post.

She's already out of the pot.

It is nothing but massive roots- and I actually had to cut the plastic pot to get her out. The roots are tightly packed together.

Not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing???

[brookn]

If the rooots are firm i believe it is a good thing. Sounds like you may have just had some fertilizer burn on those leaves. Good luck on the repotting.

[kel80]

Back to the board....

I've seen at least five of these nasty little bugs in there!

They are about 1/2 in long with lots of legs and really icky! That can't be a good thing......

[brookn]

It will be fine. Just get your repot done and give it a good spray. I repotted mine a while back, and sprayed while it was all damp, did not bother the plant a bit, has new roots, leaves good. Bugs may have been the reason for the spots after all. New medium will go a long way to helping, cause the old medium sounds infested. Just be sure to keep it out of the light after spraying. I sprayed mine, cause I thought that after potting it needed to be out of the light a while anyway why not. I am sure someone would probably disagree with me, but it has not bothered my plant a bit.

[prisana]

Kel, either sowbugs, or these little centipede-look-alike, I forgot the name. If these are what you have in your medium, they're harmless.

I think Brook maybe right in thinking it's only fertilizer burn ( too much fertilizer ) , it doesn't really look like sunburn to me ( leave burns look dry and brown, usually not black ), but I could be wrong. I had dark spots starting on 2 of my catts' older pseudobulbs , one turned out a rot that spread through out the rest of the bulb pretty fast ( had to be cut out ) and the other was nothing , just a mere discoloring. Good luck.

[Aniko]

Sorry, I was away from my desk.

Set back means delay in blooming.
This is not my personal opinion but a fact experienced by growers.Every care instruction for Catts says that the best time for re-potting is after blooming, when the new growth start to spread out roots.
In this period the time the plant activates its growing hormones and can easily replace the broken roots which occur.

Kel, I hope your plant will be fine in spite of all the troubles .

[sandra]

Kel, Now is a good time to repot your cattleya. Anytime after a blooming or when new roots are growing is a great time. If you've got rot, it's a vital time to repot. Don't be afraid to cut away all dead roots. I think that in one of the posts I attached last night is reference to the necessity of getting rid of them in order to help the plant along with new growth and to save it from death. Look at the 2nd thread where Kevin instructed me what to do with my plant. I had cut away every single root there was and thought it was a goner. Three weeks after repotting it and following the instructions, I've now got tons of roots and 2 pseudobulbs now growing. If the roots in your plant aren't brown or mushy, don't cut but you still need to repot to give it fresh media to grow in.

If you do happen to cut away all roots as I did with the one in the referenced thread I mentioned, it may require watering. As mine had no dead roots any longer to further rot, I'm assuming is why it took so well and is thriving now. I have another cattleya that I just repotted and had to cut away a ton of roots but there were some left on that I couldn't reach and because of this, I haven't been watering that one at all, reason being to stop the spread of the rot that's still there.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by kel80

Well, I'd say pretty fast. I noticed the tip blackening yesterday, but noticed the bulb problem today.

If it is progressing rapidly, by "rapidly" I mean noticbly from day to day, I would cut it off, cutting about 1 cm into healthy leaf. Treat with a fungicide or Physan, possibly cinnamon.

Is the bulb mushy? if so cut it off and treat as above.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Aniko

Cattleyas are sulky and does not like to be re-potted any time as Phalaenopsis do.
Disturbing the roots will set back the plant and even might kill it.

I'm sorry Aniko, but I disagree with this point. I find Cattleyas take readily to repotting and do not sulk. On the cotrary I usually see a stepped up vigor in their growth after repotting. Because of this I have been considering repotting my Cattleyas once a year. I typically repot them every other year.

I do agree however that repotting after bloom or as new growth starts is the best time to repot as their cycle proceedes uninterrupted. In my experience, I do not find Cattleyas sulky or prone to dying if repotted at the wrong time.

[kel80]

Originally Posted by kmarch

If it is progressing rapidly, by "rapidly" I mean noticbly from day to day, I would cut it off, cutting about 1 cm into healthy leaf. Treat with a fungicide or Physan, possibly cinnamon.

Is the bulb mushy? if so cut it off and treat as above.

Thanks for the input. The bulb isn't mushy at all, just that spot. The leaf is now drying out but the black hasn't expanded at all.

I took a lot of time last night to repot and she's looking good. The roots were really packed in there. I think I did a decent job, we'll see what happens.

Thanks everyone!

I do strongly agree with Aniko that the rhyzome is planted much too deep. At the most it should be half in, half out of the medium.

[kel80]

Do you guys remember this thread?

Well, I repotted the plant....and I put it up high away on my hutch so I would leave it alone and NOT mess with it.

I just checked on it now.

I HAVE NEW GROWTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Woo!!!

I am, however, concerned the way the Cattleya is growing. You will see what I mean after viewing the photos.

Thoughts?

[fred]

kel80
I am very pleased that your catt has new growth ( well done)

Please dont take offence to this question but

Why is the catt repotted on its side ?
Was that because the plant is top heavy ?

[kel80]

Originally Posted by fred

kel80
I am very pleased that your catt has new growth ( well done)

Please dont take offence to this question but

Why is the catt repotted on its side ?
Was that because the plant is top heavy ?

No offense taken, Fred. This is a strange one. It wasn't like that when I potted it. It did lop over to the side, but not as bad as you see in the photo. I do think it is because it is top heavy.

[Vivienne]

YEAH Kel! New growth is always a good thing, even if it grows in an odd direction. LOL

[prisana]

Super !! you have not one but TWO new growth !! The plant looks like it was pulled out of the medium tho ( got a hungry pet ? ) Just because I see loose medium around the roots , have you tried staking it ?

[kel80]

Originally Posted by prisana

Super !! you have not one but TWO new growth !! The plant looks like it was pulled out of the medium tho ( got a hungry pet ? ) Just because I see loose medium around the roots , have you tried staking it ?

Thankfully, the cats have stayed away from this one. Do I need to disturb it and plant it in deeper? Do you think the pot is too small?

I haven't tried to stake it yet. I should probably do that. It was staked when I purchased it.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Sorry I wasn't around when this thread was fresh. Aniko is quite right about repotting out of season. You can do anything to Catts in Florida, and they just keep going. Chicago and Arizona are not Florida, and those of you in Florida need to keep this in mind when you give advice. Fortunately the season for repotting for Kel is probably coming up soon as the new growths just now noticed will probably be rooting in another couple of months. If those new growths were another 6+ months off, this plant, depending on how much damage was done to the roots in repotting, could have been under severe stress for 8 or 9 months.

Kel, the proper way to repot is to place the plant in the pot such that there is room for 2 years growth infront of the most recent growth. If the plant would not have fit properly in the pot, you could have probably done this by either using a larger pot, or by removing some of the older bulbs at the back end. Three bulbs in a row is the minimum, but 4 is better, and 5 if you easily have room. Since going to a bigger pot means slower drying, it is probably best to try to find, in order of increasing pot diameter, azalea pots, then bulb pans. If by steaking the plant upright, you can make it so that the new growths will be able to drop their roots into the pot this year, then you can leave the plant undisturbed until the next set of growths start.

[sandra]

Save your regrets Cynthia. This was all considered.

Originally Posted by Cynthia, Prescott, AZ

Sorry I wasn't around when this thread was fresh. Aniko is quite right about repotting out of season. You can do anything to Catts in Florida, and they just keep going. Chicago and Arizona are not Florida, and those of you in Florida need to keep this in mind when you give advice.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Hi Sandra. When you talk about removing the rotted roots to prevent spreading of the rot, I assume you mean spreading to other roots. I agree with the extra dry at the time of repotting, and that is why I have never prewetted my bark (in the old days when I use to use bark), which drys very fast due to the lack of preconditioning. I have never, in 25 years of growing Catts, and thousands of Catt repots, with lots of rotted roots, ever seen root rot spread to rhyzomes (fungi vs bacteria). However, I have seen plenty of cases of bad rot in the roots with rotting mix, and probably mostly because of the rotting mix, seen the base of the rhyzome burn/blacken so badly that all the eyes on the plant were ruined, leaving a health looking plant that was esentially the 'living dead' because the plant could never produce a new growth.

[sandra]

Yes, to prevent the spread of rot to other roots and as well, to repot when all conditions are right. What are you potting your catts in now Cynthia?

Originally Posted by Cynthia, Prescott, AZ

Hi Sandra. When you talk about removing the rotted roots to prevent spreading of the rot, I assume you mean spreading to other roots. I agree with the extra dry at the time of repotting, and that is why I have never prewetted my bark (in the old days when I use to used bark), which drys very fast due to the lack of preconditioning. I have never, in 25 years of growing Catts, and thousands of Catt repots, with lots of rotted roots, ever seen root rot spread to rhyzomes. However, I have seen plenty of cases of bad rot in the roots with rotting mix, and probably mostly because of the rotting mix, seen the base of the rhyzome burn/blacken so badly that all the eyes on the plant were ruined, leaving a health looking plant that was esentially the 'living dead' because the plant could never produce a new growth.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Two parts small perlite to one part Canadian peat, plus about 2 cups of oyster shell per cu ft of mix to keep the ph from going super low. I pack it in pretty well, with the result that the mix wicks very well, so the wetness at the top of the pot is the wetness throughout. This mix requires repotting every year, but it is easy to remove with a jet of water from a hose end nozzle.

I can often repot with no damage to roots so the season for repotting is not limited unless I have to divide a plant, then the damage resulting from untangling the roots requires that I hold the plants till the season for new roots from the new growth. Not just waiting for new growths, but the actual roots starting from these newgrowths because some plants won't root on the new growth until it has fully matured, and even rested.

The other point I really need to make should someone else read this and go off to try this, is that the pot size must be kept small, as the drying cycle is mostly created by the roots of the potted plant sucking the water out of the mix, and they can't begin to do it in an excessively large pot. I allow for only one years growth, and try to keep the number of backbulbs down for the same reason, to keep the pot small. I am shifting all my rupicolious Laelias to clay pots with my mix, because they dry out much faster, which is a requirement for these plants.

[kel80]

This thread has nothing but confused me I'm sorry.
I don't know what I should do now. Should I repot the plant now to make it more stable, leave it alone, or ???

I'm afraid to touch it again, but obviously want whats best for the plant.

So here's a rundown on the plant:
Bought plant-plant seemed fine. Put plant outside on balcony. Received lots of sun/humidity. Watered normally, let dry out between waterings. Plant was potted in bark. Few weeks later noticed brown spot on leave and brown spot on bulb. Decided to repot. Put plant up away where it would be left alone-filtered light, no water. Noticed new growth. Plant seems to be growing funny. So now I come to whether or not I should repot (again, second time in almost a month) or just leave her be.

Sorry to be such a pain. I don't know why Catts intimidate me so much.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Kel, just prop it upright with a stake, or something that clips onto the side of the pot. You can make something that will do the job with a coat hanger and needle nose pliers. Just bend the end of a straight section of wire to form a paper clip type shape, and slip onto the pot edge in a position that will allow you to pull the plant up with some sting or twist ties. If possible, you could try to shift the front of the plant a little more to the centerline of the pot to give the new growths the most room possible. The least disturbance of the roots, the better. All you really need is to see to it that the new roots go into the pot, and you won't need to do any rearranging yet until the roots start and you see where they are heading. But do prop the plant up.

By the way, mossiae is supposed to be one of the easiest Cattleyas to grow.

Whoops, I meant easiest Cattley 'species' to grow.

[kel80]

Originally Posted by Cynthia, Prescott, AZ

By the way, mossiae is supposed to be one of the easiest Cattleyas to grow.

Oh, great! I feel even sillier now

Thanks very much. I look forward to her progress.