Problems with drying out

[mischa91]

I've had my new orchid about 1 1/2 months or so. The problem i'm having right now if that it seems to be drying out too much. It's probably due to the heating system and the dry air from that, i know my skin is very dry right now.

I've brought it to work with me so to see if a change in environment might help.

It's a phal. in the potting mix i got from lowes. It's in a plastic container which is inside a bigger pot, i leave water in the bottom but it's not really making a difference.

four of the leaves look healthy but one looks a bit dry, the root that has worked it's way out of the mix is dry, not sure about the rest of the roots.

Could it be that i haven't put enough potting mix in with the plant, so there's too much space between the roots and the potting mix?

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

[syndywindy]

There could be a couple things going on, but posting pictures could help to know better. first thing you mention is drying out. The top could feel and look dry to you but down in the pot could be quite damp. I would take the pot out of the outer pot, you don't want your plant sitting in water. There needs to be good drainage and air circulating for the roots. Have you checked the roots? If they have not had a chance to dry out at all, they could be rotted. Especially if the medium the plant is growing in is broken down. I would start with doing these things first to see what is actually going on and then we can help you better.

[mischa91]

Originally Posted by syndywindy

There could be a couple things going on, but posting pictures could help to know better. first thing you mention is drying out. The top could feel and look dry to you but down in the pot could be quite damp. I would take the pot out of the outer pot, you don't want your plant sitting in water. There needs to be good drainage and air circulating for the roots. Have you checked the roots? If they have not had a chance to dry out at all, they could be rotted. Especially if the medium the plant is growing in is broken down. I would start with doing these things first to see what is actually going on and then we can help you better.

Hi, I got a few pictures and hope it helps. I've taken the inner pot out and it's standing on my desk, i'll have to get a tray for it to sit on.

The roots look a little dry, not plump like they should be. The medium is fairly new, i repotted it when i got it.

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It was previously in my room at home which is colder than my work place. It wasn't in direct sunlight and the room didn't get much sun during the day. I've been watering about once a week.

[Ron]

Hi, the bark mix looks too me a bit too chunky, and if bark is allowed to dry out it takes days of soaking to rewet it.
Perhaps try some other mix, I personally use CoCo nuggets of 12 to 18 mm in size presoaked for a few day.
If it does dry out it can easily be reweted.

[mischa91]

I just googled coco nuggets and couldn't find anything, does it maybe come under a different name?

I thought the roots might not be getting enough moisture, is there anything else I could use? I looked around for coir (?) I think it was when I first got the plant and wanted to repot it but couldn't find it.

[Dendian]

I agree about the bark being too dry and probably too big. Until you get another media try soaking the plant for about an hour when you water it - then pour the water out and let it get air.

Coco nuggets or Coir are made of the same material - coconut husks. Not all coconut is created equal tho, some is too fine and will smother the roots just as badly as decomposed moss will.

Try hydroponics stores for the coconut husk chips or coco nuggets. That's where I got my bag. You will probably want to soak them overnight and rinse them a couple of times before using them - because of possible salt contamination, but I have had good luck using them with my phals (I added a bit of pearlite and packing peanuts at the bottom too).

[Smokerfamily]

Not necessarily true Dendian. Fine coco wont smother the roots if the mix and conditions are right. I have a Phal in a mix of coco peat, perlite, charcoal, and shell grit. This mix is very open and free draining but holds plenty of moisture. It means I dont have to water as often. My plants love it. I also have others in it including Cymbidiums, Dendrobiums, Cattleyas, Oncidiums etc. They all love it in my conditions. And thats probably the key, having the right conditions.

[mischa91]

Originally Posted by Dendian

I agree about the bark being too dry and probably too big. Until you get another media try soaking the plant for about an hour when you water it - then pour the water out and let it get air.

Coco nuggets or Coir are made of the same material - coconut husks. Not all coconut is created equal tho, some is too fine and will smother the roots just as badly as decomposed moss will.

Try hydroponics stores for the coconut husk chips or coco nuggets. That's where I got my bag. You will probably want to soak them overnight and rinse them a couple of times before using them - because of possible salt contamination, but I have had good luck using them with my phals (I added a bit of pearlite and packing peanuts at the bottom too).

Thanks. I found a hydroponics store quite near me so i'll go in the next few days if i don't get the chance today. I've got the plant in the sink soaking and my office is nice and warm this morning so i'll bring it back in here to dry out a bit once it's done soaking.

I'll look for the coco nuggets and re-pot it. we have so many packing peanuts here so i'll add a layer of those too.

Originally Posted by Smokerfamily

Not necessarily true Dendian. Fine coco wont smother the roots if the mix and conditions are right. I have a Phal in a mix of coco peat, perlite, charcoal, and shell grit. This mix is very open and free draining but holds plenty of moisture. It means I dont have to water as often. My plants love it. I also have others in it including Cymbidiums, Dendrobiums, Cattleyas, Oncidiums etc. They all love it in my conditions. And thats probably the key, having the right conditions.

Thanks for the tips. I'll see what i can find when i go to the store.

[syndywindy]

I agree now that I can see the images. A bit chunky on the bark although it can work. If you are unable to find anything smaller I would soak the heck out of it. If you potted up the plant without soaking the bark first, it won't retain much moisture at future waterings. I have used large bark for potting with no problems, it just needs to be soaked well before potting. You might want to see if you can find some charcoal or perlite to add also.

[mischa91]

Yeah, i didn't soak it first, being a bit of a brown thumb i didn't know i should. I've soaked it this morning and it's drying in my office.

I found a place near me where i can get both perlite and coir so i'll get some later in the week and re-pot it, i'll rinse the coir out well and soak it before i re-pot.

Luckily i don't think it's suffered too much just yet under my really inexperienced care. So hopefully after its re potted in something i can handle it'll come back to full health.

[englandfx]

OR what you can do is just cut the large chunky bark yourself into more smaller pieces

Also, if this is your very first phal orchid, don't be too sad or discouraged if it ends up dead. The majority of phal growers have killed their first orchid. True Story ^^

[syndywindy]

Originally Posted by englandfx

OR what you can do is just cut the large chunky bark yourself into more smaller pieces

Also, if this is your very first phal orchid, don't be too sad or discouraged if it ends up dead. The majority of phal growers have killed their first orchid. True Story ^^

Don't be a glum gussy! We are here to encourage not discourage. There is no reason to imply first time plants most likely will end up dying. I think there are plenty of people who would claim otherwise.
Mischa, just keep plugging along and I bet your phal will be just fine!

[mischa91]

Fact: my first orchid did die, this is my second. The first one unfortunately died due to following the instructions on the sheet it came with, you know 'add 3 ice cubes per week'. eeep. This time i re potted it when i got it to check out the roots, i just didn't realize the potting mix was too large. I am rubbish with plants most of the time so i thought this would be challenging.

It's a learning curve and i'll get it eventually.

I'm actually going to get a mini indoor greenhouse to grow some seeds and have a little veg garden in the spring. Another first and i'm sure that will be somewhat hit and miss too.

[Reg22]

The majority of phal growers have killed their first orchid. True Story ^^

I'd like to say that I have still NOT killed the first two orchids I got 8 years ago, a phal and a dend. I've definitely killed a few since then, but that was because of delving into genera I didn't know how to care for too fast.

Mischa, keep learning & you'll do great!

[mischa91]

Thank. Any tips you have to share are always welcome.

[mischa91]

Finally found some coconut coir today and re-potted the orchid. I let the coir soak for over an hour in a bigger pot before i re-potted the plant. Does it look better? I cut off the roots that didn't look good but there were some that looked healthy which is good.

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I noticed that the top of the coir is now quite dry so i'll need to learn how much to water and how often with this new potting material. Now that it's in a better material will it recover from the lost roots/lost plant stem?

[plantloverlisa]

Mischa, you can not be held responsible for killing the ice cube Phal. That is just a recipe for death.

[mischa91]

Yes it is, poor unfortunate plants with bad instructions. I'm glad i found this forum to help me better understand how to care for these plants.

[Dendian]

It looks like it does have more moisture in the pot - that's a good thing.

Is it chunky coir? It looks like it has air spaces - also good.

Is the lowest leaf above the coir? It looks a bit deep to me - but if the leaf growth where it comes off the center "stem" is above the media then its fine.

You will probably want to invest in a bamboo skewer or two - put it in the pot with the plant and when you think its almost dry - take it out (skewer method) and check it. It will tell you when its actually almost dry - and when it is still sopping wet in the middle. If it looks dripping wet - its still too wet to water again, if it doesn't look wet but still gets your fingers wet - wait, if it doesn't get your fingers wet and only feels cool - then water. If it doesn't look wet and feels warm - oops.

Give time and proper watering and fertilizing techniques, adequate light and people comfortable temperatures - it will recover. Loosing the flower stem is what it does naturally - so that won't bother it at all. It will grow new roots to replace the lost ones, and it will grow new leaves out of the top. That half-grown leaf may stop growing though - because of the lost roots. It may start a new leaf instead.

Looks better already!

[mischa91]

It's not really chunky, much less chunky than the bark. It has stringy bits and small chunks. It does have air spaces, i made sure when i was letting it soak to try and break it up quite a bit. The lower leaf was just touching it so i guess it was too deep, i skimmed a little off the top so the leaf is out of the mixture more now.

Will chopsticks work? i have some of those lying around. Thanks for the tips on how to check when it's too wet/dry. I'll keep those handy.

It'll be going back to work with me tomorrow, the lighting is better and the room is warm during the day and slightly chillier at night which is better than at my house which is warmer at night. I hope it recovers, it does look better now though.

[Cmk]

A relative of mine killed over twenty phals using the just add ice instructions.

[Dendian]

Yes, chopsticks will work - preferably new ones. If not - wash them well and soak them in a 10% bleach solution for a day, then in water until the bleach smell is gone. I don't think orchids like Chinese food.

Actually its the joint where the leaf meets the stem that is important to be out of the media - any water sitting there can cause rot. Rot in that area can kill a plant. Its called crown rot - but it can start from the side too.

[Brooke]

Before using the coconut you should soak it for a much longer period of time. Coconut has a high salt content in it which eventually hurts the orchid. It usually takes two or three 12 hour soaks, rinsing between the soaks, to remove all of it.

If you have access to a TDS meter you can check the soak water to see if you've removed it. The best coconut I've found was salt free in two soaks but most take three. This is from various vendors who all declare it has been rinsed.

Like Dian, your Phal looks to be potted too deep which could lead to stem rot.

Brooke

[mischa91]

Originally Posted by Cmk

A relative of mine killed over twenty phals using the just add ice instructions.

They have a good money making scheme going. Have the customer buy a beautiful plant and when it gradually withers and dies they blame themselves since they followed the instructions to the letter. So they go out and buy another and follow the same directions as before. Killing plants and buying new ones. My mam killed hers this way too.

Originally Posted by Dendian

Yes, chopsticks will work - preferably new ones. If not - wash them well and soak them in a 10% bleach solution for a day, then in water until the bleach smell is gone. I don't think orchids like Chinese food.

Actually its the joint where the leaf meets the stem that is important to be out of the media - any water sitting there can cause rot. Rot in that area can kill a plant. Its called crown rot - but it can start from the side too.

I have a pack of new ones. I raised it up some last night so now the stem is showing and i can see where ever leaf meets the stem.

Originally Posted by Brooke

Before using the coconut you should soak it for a much longer period of time. Coconut has a high salt content in it which eventually hurts the orchid. It usually takes two or three 12 hour soaks, rinsing between the soaks, to remove all of it.

If you have access to a TDS meter you can check the soak water to see if you've removed it. The best coconut I've found was salt free in two soaks but most take three. This is from various vendors who all declare it has been rinsed.

Like Dian, your Phal looks to be potted too deep which could lead to stem rot.

Brooke

It's been raised up some so i can now see where ever leaf meets the stem.

I have more coir on hand so i can start soaking and rinsing the next batch and re-pot again in fully rinsed medium. I thought soaking and rinsing for an hour would be fine, apparently not. Thanks for the advice. I wanted to add some packing peanuts to the bottom of the pot anyway and forgot to take some from work the other day so this will give me a chance to do that.

I should have a TDS meter on hand since i just got an RO/DI system in my house but i haven't gotten around to getting one yet.

[mischa91]

Well the effects of the drying out are starting to show.

I soaked and rinsed more of the coir i have and re potted it this morning in the hopefully salt free medium.

While i was re potting i noticed it has some nice healthy roots showing, full and green which made me quite happy, however, i think i was a bit heavy handed and might have loosened the top 2 leaves accidentally while moving it :/

So my question, with healthy roots can the plant survive if it looses a few leaves?

Here are a few photos, does it look healthy? Is it out of the coir far enough.

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I'm finding i'm really no good at this whole plant thing.

[syndywindy]

You are doing just fine! We all have to start somewhere and you will be fine. The plant looks good to me, phals will lose bottom leaves, so if they are the bottom leaves that you think you might have lossened up a bit, it should be fine. But maybe you didn't do anything to them and all will be well. Now that you have got it potted up well, put a skewer or your chopstick into the medium, and get it deep into the middle of the pot. While the top of the medium may look or feel dry, if you pull out the chopstick and it feels moist, no water. Wait until the chopstick is just barely damp or totally dry before watering again. Place you plant in a good location, phals don't need bright light, so once you find a good spot, leave it. I betting it will do great!

[mischa91]

Thanks. I am apparently a klutz and broke off the 2 top leaves. The rest of the plant looks okay so i'll leave it until almost dry then water again.

I have an extra stake handy to test the medium for wet/dryness.

It's going to stay on my desk at work so not in direct sunlight but it will get indirect light from the window.

I was thinking if i get another (because even though i seem great at killing/maiming them it's oddly addictive) i might try a different species from an actual grower, so i can start off with a healthy plant instead of one from a store that comes in incorrect potting media. I was thinking of trying a cattleya, i've been reading up and there seems to be some differences in the care; watering an such. If i do get one i'll post in the culture section and ask my questions.

[Brooke]

Mischa how far from the window is your desk? Two feet back from a SE window is only about 600 fc's. Any farther than that your Phal will not have enough light to grow.

If the top leaves were broken off and not lost to crown rot you will be able to grow new leaves. If you had crown rot, then you can hope for a new basal growth.

Brooke