Ready or Not- "deflasking"

[pikevi]

I bought a few flasks about 8 weeks ago. One , a Zygopetalum, has been deflasked. So far the 'babies' are doing OK.

I am just wondering if any of the three flasks in the photo is ready for deflasking.

I'd appreciate any suggestions/advice.

Thank you

[pikevi]

Since no one replied to my query regarding the readiness of the flasked 'babies ' to be deflasked, I took the three flasks to two local stores.

I just wanted to add what they saidif anyone is interested)

At least a few proto-pseudobulbs should be formed before the 'babies' are ready for deflasking. For the ones that don't form Ps. bulbs, at least a couple of leaves should show some likeness to the mature leaves of that species.

I hope it makes sense to those who are trying 'deflasking'

[brookn]

Lookin' good pikevi. Looks like your full house is going to get quite a few babies. Let me know when you are ready to share!!! I am not ready to attempt flasks yet, you are brave lol.

[Aniko]

Sorry Pikevi - I don't know much about this topic...

[jerrymeola]

The advice you got is interesting and triggered memories from my experience.

I never grow from flasks as the effort is not worth the money on a commercial scale to me.

I did buy 300 Encyclia tempensa plugs from my supplier that does grow from seed and clones. This is a very small plant and has small pseudobulbs. Maybe 10-15% of them did not have pseudo bulbs, but the leaves were as long (3-4 inch's) as the others.. Thinking back now, I realize I had high losses on these and had much better results with the rest, which were larger and had pseudobulbs.

[pikevi]

It is OK, Aniko.

brookn: I have no idea where I am going to keep all these orchids. I think I am having a bout of a compulsive disorder

jerrymeola: You are so right. These falsks, apparently wont be ready for another 4-6 months, it seems.. I will file these attempts under 'gathering experience", LOL

[Ellen]

Pikevi,

I didn't see this post earlier, but those flasks don't look too bad to me. Did you deflask already? The person who gave you the advice is right that you need to wait until the plants have mature looking leaves and - most importantly - roots, but I have deflasked oncidiums and lycastes that had no p-bulbs coming out of flask, but developed them almost immediately. These did have good roots and mature-type leaves when deflasked. My general rule of thumb is to get plants in flask if possible (as you did - not in the baggies) so that I can leave them to grow for as long as they need to grow. Unless the flask gets contaminated, the plants can stay in there until they're too big for the flask. The down side is that for some plants, the bigger they get the more their roots become entangled, making it difficult to separate them, so there's some optimal time that you will figure out after dealing with a few flasks. Like everything else, you learn by trial and error.

[prisana]

I'm another one that didn't see your post !!--but like most , I don't know much about flasking and de flasking I'd like to try that one day, right now I'm not confident enough with the tiniest yet.
I've heard of a grower that grew his seedlings, instead of in compots, he had them in individual cells. He said their growth do much better when the time comes to put them in their own pots. The cell-growing pans looked a lot like the seed-starter greenhouse trays they sell at nurseries... Maybe when I'm brave enough, I'll try something like that ...
You are one brave man .

[pikevi]

Thanks Ellen and prisana.

I have not deflasked these three yet. It seems that it may be sept or so before I can do it.

Ellen , I may come to you for further advice when I decide to deflask these three flasks

[flowerchild]

Originally Posted by pikevi

Thanks Ellen and prisana.

I have not deflasked these three yet. It seems that it may be sept or so before I can do it.

Ellen , I may come to you for further advice when I decide to deflask these three flasks

If you need some room to keep some of the deflasked plants let me know K? Cindy

[Julie_M]

I would agree with Ellen and the vendor you consulted that those can stay in there for quite a bit longer.

I usually deflask when the roots have completely invaded the agar and the biggest plants in there reach the top. Yes, it is harder to deflask when they are larger, which is why some advise breaking the flask, but they can then better cope with life outside the flask. (Try adding water, swirling it around to loosen the agar, pour out very gently, and repeat until most of the agar is out -- plants are then easier to remove. Remember that patience is a virtue, although if you are growing plants from flask, you must surely already know that. ;-)

When you do deflask, I would recommend you pot them in community pots. I've experimented with community pots and singles, and the difference is incredible. Community-potted plants are easily twice as large as the singles, even though most of the singles were larger to begin with. It's also easier to keep compots wet enough for seedlings. All of mine have now been compotted and most are already looking better. Compots also take up a lot less space than singles.

As well, another issue to remember is that temperatures in September will be cooler - seedlings do best with temperatures around 25-27C with minimum nights around 20C, which might mean purchasing a heating mat.

Hope this helps.

Julie

[pikevi]

You are on the top of the list, flowerchild

Even the ones I deflasked , now seem to show some signs of stress

I will post the pix soon.

Julie_M: Thanks for the advice. How do I add water? should I use a syringe and inject the water? How do I ensure that the sterility is not compromised?

I was told to keep them in a warm place and away from direct sunlight which I am doing now.

[Bolero]

I am new to deflasking as well so this thread is interesting.

Might go off and buy that flask of cuthbertsonii now......or maybe not!

[Julie_M]

Pikevi,

Adding water is actually for when you're ready to deflask, at which time you would open the top of the flask, add ROOM TEMPERATURE or slightly warmer RO water and swish, then empty and repeat. This loosens up the agar and will make getting your seedlings out that much easier. For now, warm and bright, but no direct sunlight, is great advice. I keep my flasks 12" under two 40W fluorescent bulbs, which is also where I put the deflasked seedlings.

You mentioned that your already deflasked seedlings are showing signs of stress -- what kind of seedlings are they, what kind of light and temps do you have them under and were they hardened off (flasked seedlings are used to perfect temps and humidity; it's generally recommended to harden them off gradually, which I do by putting them in one of those mini plastic greenhouses, on which I gradually raise the lid over the course of a month)? You also have to make sure that they stay just a bit damp at all times. They're too young yet to stand periods of drought.

Hope this helped.

Julie

P.S. When you're ready for some new flasks, take a look at Green Canyon Laboratories. He has some great species, the plants are incredibly vigorous and he gives the best instructions on how to deflask and care for those seedlings. Out of the eight flasks I purchased last year, I have yet to lose a single plant, which is pretty amazing when you think about it.

[pikevi]

I got it now!!

I was wondering if I should be adding water from now on

I was new and very foolish( not that there is any change) when I deflasked the first two. I think they were cattleyas. They were doing OK for a while but now I see some of them becoming brown.

I hope one or two would survive at the end. I feel sorry for them but I had to learn two.

I do have them in mini-GH trays. I took the plastic canopy out to take the picture.

Posting photos for you to look at.

[Ellen]

I find that with Cattleyas you really need to compot them and grow them in that way until they have pseudobulbs, and preferably a couple of growths, before potting them out individually. If your Catts aren't doing well you might try taking them out of the individual pots and putting them all together in a compot or two, in sphag. The covered box setup that you have them in looks very similar to what I use. Some other types of orchids, paphs and phals, for example, seem to do better if they're potted out individually right out of flask. Phal species do best for me when mounted right out of flask.

I agree with Julie M that a good sign of plants being ready to deflask is when the roots have completely invaded the agar, so that's what you should wait for on your remaining 2 flasks. When it comes time to separate them, a good way to do it is by swishing them around in water so that the roots come apart naturally. If you simply cannot separate 2 plants, then just plant them as one rather than trying to force them apart. You'll be surprised how much easier, quicker, and less stressful it becomes each time you deflask.

[Julie_M]

I'm definitely with Ellen on compotting. Those pots are way too big for the plants and you'll likely find that, as with any other orchid that is overpotted, you have some root rot, which seedlings really can't afford. You'll probably be able to fit at least 5 seedlings per pot. I also use pure NZ sphagnum moss, with styrofoam peanuts in the bottom of the pot.

Julie

[pikevi]

Ellen & Julie_M:

Wheteher I am going to lose some (or all) of them I am going to re-pot them as 'compots'.

I hope I can do it before next weekend: if not they have to survive another 5 days as they are.


Thanks for all the advice.

[Glitter]

Very intersting topic!

I've been wondering about flask and have been wondering if it's something I should try to buy. Where did you buy these flask from?

[pikevi]

I bought mine at an Orchid Show at the Royal Botanical Gardens here in Ontario. I don't remember from whom. I think the grower is from Niagara falls or the vicinity.

I think my first attempt may end up in a failure.

But good luck to you.

[Julie_M]

Glitter,

You may want to start with community pots, which are relatively recently deflasked seedlings.