indoor watering technique ?

[orchidorchid]

Hello all !
I am a new Ogeek
Little history......I have acquired a few dozen lovely orchids......strays, I guess you would say. I have always had a couple of plants around me, but, now that this collection has developed its own spirit, I have taken an interest in actual culture and care.
I am truly perplexed with the abundance of reading material.....more specifically on indoor watering techniques and the potential problems of rot, etc.
My one question is this.......everything that I read, says to take great care when watering.....not to get water in the crowns, use lukewarm water, water early in the day so that evaporation may occur & good aire circulation, etc.

Well then, how are these greenhouses watering thousands of plants. I see hoses for sale & such. They cannot possibly be standing at a sink all day, soaking each pot for a minute or two......or walking down the aisles with
Q-tips !! or can they ??

So, my plants are all indoors. I live in the desert with about 3% humidity and on a good day, maybe up to 10%. I run both warm & cool mist humidifiers in the winter months for both the orchids comfort and my own
Heat does not go on until late in the season & average indoor temps are probably running between 68 to 74 degrees.
I water them intuitively, no schedule. And yes, I stand at the sink and dunk them. I use distilled water which is heated and then cooled. Water out of my tap is SOFT. I have a reverse osmosis system, but only use that on rare occasions since the tank capacity is not large and the water runs ice cold.
Who can I dunk completely or water from above ??? I really want to do the right thing by them, since they have given me so much joy & beauty.

Any suggestions or tips would be so greatly appreciated. Just have not
found the right reading material on indoor watering techniques.

This Ogeek thanks you experts out there !

[Emma Grey]

First off, hi and welcome! I water by letting each plant soak for a bit every Monday, and then I water more during the week by either using a pitcher or by running the plants under the faucet in the bathtub when I don't see condensation inside the pot (I use plastic pots). The amount of time between waterings depends on the size of the pot. I don't worry about getting water on the leaves/in the crowns of my phals because I run a fan during the day so I know that the water will dry by nightfall.

I guess my point is: don't worry about getting water on your plants. Just make sure they'll dry by nightfall so the water doesn't sit in the crevices of the plant. You can do that either by watering earlier in the day or by running a fan to create air movement and speed evaporation of water off of the leaves.

[jsehorn]

I agree with Emma about not worrying much about water on the leaves. I usually water in the evenings since that is when I have time, but I run a fan at all times, so I don't worry about getting water on the plants. It's really only a concern if the plants are wet and cool, with poor air circulation.

[-k-]

Hello Orchidorchid, nice to have you aboard!!!

Stray orchids huh!!! Sounds like my kind of orchids
What kind of orchids do you have there and do you have culture sheets for them and how long have you had them
I've included a link for a thread on the skewer method it's great for determining when to water! I have also included a link to a thread for orchid culture which may also be of assistance to you.

Skewer use for watering of orchids

Culture Sheet Links From The AOS

Personally for me during the winter months when all plants are indoors I do truck them over to the sink and give them a good soaking with the faucet when they're ready. Eh... it takes a little time but not each one needs watering at the same time so it's not too bad... And hey these are our orchids were talking about so it's worth the invested time!!! During the warmer months I keep some outside and use the hose in the morning when they need it, the water dries from the leaves during the day.. Be sure to post some photos of your plants and ask any questions you may have, the people are wonderful on this site that are very hapy to help!

[orchidorchid]

Thanks to all for such quick, friendly replies !
My fears are lifted. I do not mind soaking them, but as the collection has grown, I have
worried about wet leaves, especially the more reading I do
I have several cat crosses, dendrobium & epidendrum. My favorite forms are the maxillaria & encyclia, tho I do love `em all !!! Most are rescues. They seem to find me When I figure out this site, I will post some pix. Again, so happy to have new
family here !

[-k-]

Nice selection you have going there!!!

Some added thoughts I wanted to mention.... Reverse osmosis is a great option for watering, it may not be a bad idea to fill up some gallon jugs and let them warm to room temp. Even if it's a pain to do it for every watering you could do it once every few waterings to clear out any build up of salts / minerals from your tap water... A good reliable rule of thumb I go by for indoor watering is if I water at night I keep the leaves dry, don't want to temp fate..but that's just me!

[Emma Grey]

Jsehorn - Good to know! Thanks.

[katrina]

I soooo wish the "don't get water on the leaves" myth would die. It has a teeny bit of truth in it but it's been twisted and distorted into something that isn't accurate. More importantly, it freaks a lot of newer growers out.

Let's think about this for a minute...in nature is rains not just in the morning...but also at night. Plants can be exposed to overhead "watering" any time of the day or night and it's perfectly fine. They don't perish by night time rain and they certainly don't burn up if it's rained and then the sun comes out and shines on the leaves. (another myth I wish would die...sun on water droplets will burn leaves)

A few of the posters hit the nail on the head here...the problem comes in when plants are left w/a lot of water on their leaves/in crowns and the conditions are cool and damp..over overly wet....and there is poor air circulation. One night of that isn't likely going to do damage to a healthy, vigorous plant. However, if the plant is weak to begin with...you could have trouble via bacterial issues setting in...eventually causing rot issues. And/or, if the practice is repeated time and again it could result in bacterial or rot issues.

I water in the evenings when the plants are inside. I grow under T5's and they are super drying. After trying a number of things to combat the dehydrating effects of the lights, I've found evening watering...where the roots "go to bed" damp is the best solution. I have 2 ceiling fans in the space as well as a few other fans to circulate the air. My leaves and spikes move and sway from all the air movement...add in the drying effects of the lights...nothing stays wet for long periods.

Watering the leaves is good for the plants. It washes the leaves of dust and debris that can clog the pores and interfere w/it's ability to respire as well as it's ability to photosynthesize. It's good for the plants.

In the dry climate of AZ...watering the entire plant is going to be good for your orchids. Just make sure you don't have pools of water sitting in the crowns of your phals when the lights go out.

[rcb]

Kat, to add to what you wrote.

You bring up a good point about healthy vs not healthy orchids, healthy orchids tend to resist disease better.

Also people have somehow extended the myth from just Phals to all orchids.

It rained here late afternoon the other day pretty hard. I know the orchids I still have outside (no true warm growers) were still dripping wet that night. And it went down to 39F.

I didn't worry, they have survived two winters before when being wet and cold at night.

orchidorchid brings up how do nurseries keep all their plants from dying when they are watered from above. Well, first of all, they keep their plants healthy as much as possible, they give them the proper growing conditions which keep them healthy, and they have good air flow.

Whenever I see people commenting on keeping the leaves dry while watering, I always picture in a my head an orchid in the wild with an umbrella to keep itself dry.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by rcb

Whenever I see people commenting on keeping the leaves dry while watering, I always picture in a my head an orchid in the wild with an umbrella to keep itself dry.

I have had the same vision. The myth needs to die.

Excellent points Renee!

[Ray]

Another watering-related myth is that "orchids have to dry out between waterings". If that was factual, then those plants living in rain-forests would all be extinct.

One of the keys to all orchid culture is maintaining free air flow to the root system, as much of their gas exchange goes on through them, unlike most terrestrials.

I have theorized the following as the source of that myth:

When we water three things happen to the liquid:

1. Most of it pours right through the medium.
2. Some is absorbed by the plant and the medium particles.
3. Some is held between the particles of potting medium by surface tension.

That last category - the "bridging" water - can be the issue.

If the particles of potting medium are large, the spaces between them are too, and water will only be held in the areas where particles are close to each other, leaving an open space in the middle. If, on the other hand, the spaces between particles are small - too fine of a medium, compressed moss, decomposing medium, or a mix of coarse and fine ingredients (the fines fill in the spaces between the coarse ones), etc. - then the bridging water can totally fill the voids, cutting off all air flow, eventually suffocating and killing the roots.

But, if we "let [it] dry between waterings", that bridging water will be absorbed or evaporate, opening up the free air pathways again, and the orchid will be fine.

In other words, it's not the orchid that has to dry out, it's the medium!

[Ray]

One other in-home watering tip: As you are a sink-dunker, DO NOT immerse multiple plants in the same solution. That is the ideal way to share plant pathogens, so if one has an issue, in short order they all could.

[orchidorchid]

You folks are WONDERFUL ! Now I am wondering why I never
joined a forum before ? All the ideas spilling forth, are things
I have thought about.....love the orchid umbrella vision ! Now,
I have found fertile ground.........
Again, the biggest thanks to all.

[dannym4243]

I so agree with Katrina and Ray. I have lived in the tropics for years and it rains like hell there and yes indeed it rains day and night sometimes with very little wind after the rains and yet [/I]I used to just nail my orchid plants to trees and I don't remember ever losing on because of over watering. So go figure?
Thanks for the thread.
Danny

[-k-]

I would like to clarify something that's bugging me... Although I do agree plants in nature get rained on day or night without issue. My concern is this regarding indoor watering... In my neck of the woods when the cold weather hits the windows let in a draft and my growing space can get a bit chilly at night. Why then would I want wet leaves to sit in that over night, couldn't this cause cell collapse or other possible problems? I have had this happen to my Phal once during winter with wet leaves...So now I try to keep the leaves on the dry side if I water at night, not to mention any exposed wet roots will also get on the chilly side...
Growing indoors is not like growing in the wild so comparing the two really doesn't hold up... We only try to mimic the proper conditions as best possible, but everyone’s growing conditions vary...even if only slightly so shouldn't this be taken into consideration?

[katrina]

I think you missed what I was saying K. I water at night because of the dehydrating effects of the lights. I wasn't recommending everyone water at night. It works for me but it might not be the ideal for everyone.

The major point I was trying to make is that it's not bad for plants to have water on their leaves. The myth that exists (and I've seen it all too often) is that we shouldn't get water on the leaves of orchids...this just isn't true. Quite the opposite actually.

If things stay damp/moist for long periods in your growing space then yes, watering early in the day is ideal for you...but you can still water the entire plant w/out worry that something horrible will happen to the plants.



BTW -- During the day my grow space is in the upper 70's (right now) - low 70's when it gets really cold outside (due to the heat of the lights) and then once the lights go off the heat does not kick on until it drops to 60 degrees. It does get cool at night in my space and I've never had a problem because of it. But again, rarely are the tops of the plants wet by the time the lights go out. they might be a little damp but I definitely don't have pools of water sitting in phal crowns. When they are outside in the Summer...I have no control over Mother Nature and she often times sends my plants to bed soaking wet.

Oh, and last year I didn't have the heat kick on until 58 at night but I'm changing that this year because of the bulbos sitting in trays of water. No problems from it last year but I did notice they seemed to slow down more than I'd like so I'm thinking slightly higher temps will help offset any slowed growth. I hope that makes sense.

[-k-]

Ok... now I'm with you, just wanted to clarify better. . . And to your point, when I first started growing orchids I was freaked out and always made sure to soak up residual water on the leaves, now I do not. But I do take care not to allow water to stay on the leaves in winter at night. . . Granted it only happened once where one of my phals. suffered leaf collapse because I left it wet and it got hit by a cold draft. (Yeah some of my windows stink!) But the plant room is seperate from the rest of the house, so ehh...
Back to point...I just want to ensure folks understand how to manage cultural / care requirements as it relates to thier own growing environment. The diversity of growing practices is great but imo can become quite overwhelming at times when ones tries to relate it to their own conditions and finding a nice happy medium between them all. . .
Overall...you're absolutely right... plants should have their leaves watered for all the reasons you mentioned! It's like equating taking a shower but not washing your hair...

[katrina]

Originally Posted by -k-

... plants should have their leaves watered for all the reasons you mentioned! It's like equating taking a shower but not washing your hair...

Actually, it'd be like never washing anything but your feet.

You said it...there can be great diversity from one space to the next...even in the same neighborhood. As I've said before...there is no one size fits all w/any of this but there are certain conditions each plant requires and we each need to figure out how to accomplish that w/in our grow space.

Glad we're all on the same page here!

[orchidorchid]

Oh my goodness, I am delighted that my question has triggered this exchange It is very good to read all these thoughts and hear your experiences. I continue to dunk at the sink.....now with no fear of getting leaves wet. It will be an interesting winter, as I have just acquired some water loving, warm growers.....hummm. Hoping that I will be
able to share some bloomz with all of you wonderful Ogeeks.

[Jenny Ryan]

I have never heard of T5's. I assume they are some sort of light source.
I usually put my Phallys under the kitchen tap and also wipe the leaves gently.
Dry atmosphere here mostly. I don't worry about where the water is.

[orchids4me]

I am glad this got brought up the discussion here does clear up things

And yes T5's are a light fixture and type/size tubes. A much nicer verson of the old shop type lights (the shop lights are T12 and T8) T5's are more designed for growing . Check out some of the threads under the topic of lights or grow lights in the forum....

[Ron]

Hi, lot of helpfull comments above, my Orchids are grown in a greenhouse, so this is how I try to grow my orchids.
check out my link at
Watering Orchids overhead!

[Leafmite]

I would recommend being careful with some cattleya hybrids when new growths are forming. During cooler temps, certain cattleyas seem especially at risk for black rot, especially if the new growths begin under the media. I just went through that. A few cattleyas and hybrids were completely unaffected while others needed quite a bit of treatment. One is still under observation, one cattleya succumbed. They were all growing vigorously before the outbreak. Last year, a little water got into a growth and I got a terrible brown rot that nearly killed that cattleya. So, while I don't worry about water on my phals or anything else, I am now super careful with the cattleyas. I think some cattleya hybrids are just genetically less resistant.
Leafmite

[0ana]

I think these myths have something to do with the differences between the conditions under which the orchids grow in the wild and the ones in the home of the orchid lover.
In the wild there's very often a lot more air movement than in a home or GH I think, especially if there's no fan involved.

I for instance live in a place that can be very hot and dry during summer, but very wet and quite cold and dark in winter.

If in winter I'd water the leaves of my orchids (esp. the ones that are not mounted) in the morning, they wouldn't have time to get dry until evening, especially not in the crown area and it is there where the problems show up very easily.

I've had someone living in the house watering the crown of a Phallie ( convinced they're doing me a favor) and I've lost it.

Its roots were fine and plump, and the leaves were falling one by one leaving a black and rotted crown behind. I've tried to clean that as much as I could, let some Hydrogen peroxide fizz in there and then used a fan to dry it, put some cinnamon on, it didn't spread but it didn't save the last leaves either.

Now I'm left with a spider of some dry and some green and plump roots, a stub of a crown and I'm not sure if anything green will come out of there.

So if the roots had no problem (I've checked them immediately after the problems have started and there was not one mushy root), it must have been the water in the crown or else I don't think I get it anymore (this was a Phallie that has been with me for 3 months before the trouble started, btw, and it looked impeccably until the leaves started falling one by one).

[violetta]

Originally Posted by 0ana

I think these myths have something to do with the differences between the conditions under which the orchids grow in the wild and the ones in the home of the orchid lover.
In the wild there's very often a lot more air movement than in a home or GH I think, especially if there's no fan involved.

I for instance live in a place that can be very hot and dry during summer, but very wet and quite cold and dark in winter.

If in winter I'd water the leaves of my orchids (esp. the ones that are not mounted) in the morning, they wouldn't have time to get dry until evening, especially not in the crown area and it is there where the problems show up very easily.

I've had someone living in the house watering the crown of a Phallie ( convinced they're doing me a favor) and I've lost it.

Its roots were fine and plump, and the leaves were falling one by one leaving a black and rotted crown behind. I've tried to clean that as much as I could, let some Hydrogen peroxide fizz in there and then used a fan to dry it, put some cinnamon on, it didn't spread but it didn't save the last leaves either.

Now I'm left with a spider of some dry and some green and plump roots, a stub of a crown and I'm not sure if anything green will come out of there.

So if the roots had no problem (I've checked them immediately after the problems have started and there was not one mushy root), it must have been the water in the crown or else I don't think I get it anymore (this was a Phallie that has been with me for 3 months before the trouble started, btw, and it looked impeccably until the leaves started falling one by one).

You should keep watering the roots, as long as they are green and alive, a new plant may grow from the crown.
I had a Phal with a terminal spike, inevitably it ended up like yours. I kept watering the roots, and in the end I was rewarded

http://i44.tinypic.com/9qgyme.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/fycvhs.jpg

And then one day I accidentally cut off the tiny plant from the roots and it died
Still, it made me realise how tough and stubborn orchids can be!

[rlilia]

Originally Posted by katrina

I soooo wish the "don't get water on the leaves" myth would die. It has a teeny bit of truth in it but it's been twisted and distorted into something that isn't accurate. More importantly, it freaks a lot of newer growers out.

Let's think about this for a minute...in nature is rains not just in the morning...but also at night. Plants can be exposed to overhead "watering" any time of the day or night and it's perfectly fine. They don't perish by night time rain and they certainly don't burn up if it's rained and then the sun comes out and shines on the leaves. (another myth I wish would die...sun on water droplets will burn leaves)

A few of the posters hit the nail on the head here...the problem comes in when plants are left w/a lot of water on their leaves/in crowns and the conditions are cool and damp..over overly wet....and there is poor air circulation. One night of that isn't likely going to do damage to a healthy, vigorous plant. However, if the plant is weak to begin with...you could have trouble via bacterial issues setting in...eventually causing rot issues. And/or, if the practice is repeated time and again it could result in bacterial or rot issues.

I water in the evenings when the plants are inside. I grow under T5's and they are super drying. After trying a number of things to combat the dehydrating effects of the lights, I've found evening watering...where the roots "go to bed" damp is the best solution. I have 2 ceiling fans in the space as well as a few other fans to circulate the air. My leaves and spikes move and sway from all the air movement...add in the drying effects of the lights...nothing stays wet for long periods.

Watering the leaves is good for the plants. It washes the leaves of dust and debris that can clog the pores and interfere w/it's ability to respire as well as it's ability to photosynthesize. It's good for the plants.

In the dry climate of AZ...watering the entire plant is going to be good for your orchids. Just make sure you don't have pools of water sitting in the crowns of your phals when the lights go out.

Hello, here's a lovely discussion about being careful with watering plants and avoiding crown rot.
My question is on the other side of it. I live in the apartment and have no idea how humid or dry the air is. I assume it could be dry because the water in the saucer dries up in a day or two. So I added pebbles and water as suggested.

I'm now wondering shall I also buy a humidifer? Or better (for me ) - a desk fountain? Would it make a difference? How close/far should I put it by the orchid? I only have four on the table near the window but would love to get more in a future!

Lilia

[Emma Grey]

Hi Lilia,

I got a nifty digital thermometer/hygrometer on Amazon so I could measure the temp and humidity in my growing area. You might want to start there so you can see how your home stacks up. It may be that the humidity is fine w/o a fountain, or that you do need to try to bump of the humidity.

[rlilia]

Originally Posted by Emma Grey

Hi Lilia,

I got a nifty digital thermometer/hygrometer on Amazon so I could measure the temp and humidity in my growing area. You might want to start there so you can see how your home stacks up. It may be that the humidity is fine w/o a fountain, or that you do need to try to bump of the humidity.

Hi Emma,
Thanks for the suggestion. I certainly will have a look! Could you possibly post a picture of yours so I have a better idea?

Lilia

[Emma Grey]

This is the one I have, and it seems to be working well.

[vanda_obsession]

I grow my plants under red/blue LED lights I bought almost 2 years ago. I typically water when I can with my busy schedule (work full time, school part time + 1 part time job in between) I run two small fans ( Holmes® HNF0410A-RM 4 ) 24/7 to help with the drying especially if I water too heavily or to dry the water out of the crowns. I bought mine at a local store for about $10 a piece, I've seen them on that website for less than that... But they are pretty good little fans