HELP!!! Black spots on Phalaenopsis

[Risalegre]

Hello to everyone!!! I'm new to the forum and been related to orchids only for the last 6-9 months...
My growing conditions are mostly 68-72°F (20-22°C) and the relative humidity is approximately 60%. These conditions are practically constant all year round. The growing media differ between tree bark+peat moss or LECA+charcoal.
Find attached some pictures of my Phals, that seems to be affected by a dark/black spots on the leaves, I have indicated the concerned area of the leaves on each picture.
I'm really worried for the Phal that has only one leaf left and it is turning yellow (pict 0390a)
I would like some expert advice on what can be affecting the plants and how it can be cured: can it be fungal disease? how can it be cured? take into account that one of the plants has one one leave left and its yellowing... and honestly I do not want to loose it.. I will do everything that will be required to recover it.

Please feel free to ask any question that you may have.

Thanks in advance for your help and support,

Alex

[mayres]

Can you tell us something about the cultural conditions these plants are getting? Are they indoors or out? How much sun (if any) do they get and what time of day? If they are indoors, how close to window(s). What time of day do you water? What kind of air movement do you have in the area (if indoors). My first thought after scanning the pics was to consider some pathological organism (?). The yellowed leaf issue can be caused from too much light (?). I know you want to save it, but it looks questionable to me at this point. With some additional information you'll probably get some additional ideas......

[orchids4me]

I see the whole problem. Thos planters have no drainage holes in the bottom so most leaf problems tend to start with the roots. If you un pot those I'm pretty sure you have major root rot going on.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. The ones you have left repot into pots with drainage and check your roots.
Good luck, I hope they are ok.....

[Risalegre]

Dear Mayres,
The plants are indoor like 2 ft behind a south facing windows, getting sunlight behind a soft curtain from the morning up to the middle afternoon.
I water them twice a week in the morning. The air movement is good since there is a fan working all day long at 10 ft.
Suppose that there are pathological organism, is there something that can be done with Physan 20?
Regarding the yellowed leaf I'm not sure about the too much light since there are other phals close and they look ok.
I hope this gives a better and more clear picture.
Thanks,
Alex

[Risalegre]

Dear Orchids4me,
The plastic pots where I have the plants have several drainage holes, I did them manually before putting the Phals in.
When I repotted them, as you said, I found several rot roots which I trimmed and kept the good green healthy roots.
Is there any possibility to stop the pathogen, probably by soaking or spraying with Physan 20 and then stop completely the watering until new roots appear?
Thanks,
Alex

[Leafmite]

I would check the roots. The medium might not be drying in the middle. I pot my orchids in lava rock and I put the largest chunks in the middle and bottom to allow good airflow around the roots and help with even drying. Using styrofoam packing peanuts in the middle and bottom works well, too. My home stays on the cool side so I had to switch to plastic net pots to help things dry out. I use isopropyl alcohol to stop rot on stems and leaves but don't use this on roots. After treating with the alcohol, I often use cinnamon. In the wild, phals have their roots exposed to the air. Mediums are basically used to keep humidity up around them. I hope this is helpful. Orchids can be a little tricky at first but once you figure them out, they are extremely rewarding. I wish you much luck!
Leaf mite

[syndywindy]

I also was going to mention checking the roots. Your plants don't look that terrible other than the one with only one yellowing leaf. Also I noticed your pots are on the large side. Are you able to repot into smaller sized pots? When you overpot you run the risk of having the medium dry out on top and around the edges of the pot, but inside in the middle of the pot could still be quite damp. I try to pot my plants into a pot big enough for the root mass with just a bit extra for growing room. Also, if you have phals, these are lower light plants and maybe a south window, even with a curtain might be too much for them.
Also, before I forget, welcome to the forum!

[Risalegre]

Thanks to all of you for great ideas and suggestions!
I followed the recommendations and I cleaned the black spots on the leaf and on the base (not the roots) with isopropyl alcohol, after that I put some cinnamon on the affected areas.
Then, I repotted it on a mix made of chunks of charcoal on the bottom and leca on the top, see attached pictures. Before repotting, the mix was boiled for 30 mins to kill any germs/disease, let it cool down and the soaked overnight adding Superthrive and KLN rooting concentrate. Once the Phal was removed from the old mix I soaked it in water with Physan 20 for more than 30 minutes.
After repotting, I moved it to a more shaded place (not behind curtains) with increased air circulation.
I would say that from now on mainly I need to focus on root growth, what would you suggest?
Having this in mind: what do you suggest from now on regarding watering? Should I keep on the dry side (watering with rooting hormone without fertilizer once every 14 days?) until I see some new root growing? and after new roots shoots out increase the watering schedule to normal?
Any advice is very appreciated since I'm trying everything to recover this beautiful Phal.
Please feel free to comment,
Thanks,

Alex

[krpot]

I have a phal which looks similar to the one in the first pic. I've been keeping it separated from the others and have given it a couple physan treatments but the spots are still there. The plant doesn't seems to be phased by the spots so far it just keeps growin'.

[Risalegre]

Hello to everybody out there!
Related to the problem I have with the Phal on the pictures above, I was thinking if it can be a good idea to take it out (and keep it out) of the new medium so the 2 small roots remaining can dry quickly and there is no more risk of rotting... To avoid dehydration I will move the plant to a low light place and spray rooting hormone diluted in water (KNL + SuperThrive) twice a week .
Do the experts believe this can be a good way to induce root growth on this Phal?
Any suggestion is more than welcome,
Thanks
Alex

[orchids4me]

Alex,
How much stem is there below the leaf (single leaf one) this is the one were discussing at this point (right ?)....
I can't see the crown area in the pics up there. The reason I'm asking is because if potted to deep it will get crown or stem rot. Its really hard to tell.
If it were mine I'd try mounting it or put it in a small pot. Just big enough to contain what roots it has left. And I would use loose to medium. But not packed moss in that pot and just keep the moss lightly damp (like taking a wash cloth and wringing it out damp and pot it in that or mount it leaf down on a hanging mout with moss pad under and some over what ever roots it has. Both ways can work for this one.
Is there new growth or a leaf coming out of the crown of the plant ???

[Daethen]

I agree, the pot is still huge for what roots must be left. If you decide to leave it bare root, you are going to have to mist it at least twice a day I would think. Pots need to be only big enough to just hold the roots + a tiny bit of extra room.

[Risalegre]

First of all I would like to thank you all for the quick reply and the good advice you have gave me.
Coming back to business:Yes, the one I’m referring to is the single leaf one.
Unfortunately there is no new growth or a new leaf coming out.
I took it out of the pot to show you the crown area and the roots condition (see the pictures attached). The brown powder all over the crown is the cinnamon used last week.
The problem is that I do not have any small pots (I should have them in 2 wks) or a good piece of bark where to mount it. I have some peat moss, probably this can be helpful.
I have noticed that on the edge of the roots where I sprayed the cinnamon last week there was like a drop of water… seems the roots are getting mushy…
As usual, any advice is more than welcome, Thanks!

[jsehorn]

If you manage to save this one, which is probably somewhat unlikely, it's going to be years before it blooms again. Have you considered calling this one a lesson hard learned, and just getting a new one and starting over?

[Brooke]

I would remove all of the cinnamon from the root area. Cinnamon acts like a seal against moisture entering an area. I can't tell from the picture if the roots are viable or not but if they are live, they can branch since the growing tip is missing. The newest roots would appear from the base of the current leaf.

Do you mean peat moss that looks like soil? You can grow a Phal in it IF you understand it will take a long time for it to dry out. It would help if you had an inert material like broken up peanuts in the mix - a 50/50 ratio. Small perlite or small bark would also work but again a 50/50 ratio.

If that is your only pot, reduce the depth by using peanuts in the bottom. Wider than tall is always better than tall and narrow so the media can dry out faster. If you want to wait for a smaller pot, use a damp paper towel wrapped loosely around the stem and roots, moisten when dry.

Brooke

[Risalegre]

Dear all,
Happy New Year and thanks for your great support overall...
I regret to inform you that unfortunately the Phal treatedon this thread past away some days back...
Now... I need to buy some new ones and give them a try...

Thanks again,

Alex