New Here LOTS of Question's about Phal #1

[Glitter]

These are pictures of a Phal I just bought. Within days..things have changed and I'm determined for this to not die off. When I bought it several of the buds were shriveled up. And those are falling off. But now there is a yellow leaf I noticed this afternoon. When I bought them the lady was bringing the out to display ...and they were soaked is WATER! So I drained them as soon as I got them home and left them outside and now the soil type stuff is just moist. And of course, I've put the Bamboo Skewers in there to determine the wetness inside.

My questions are above each pic.
Here's a pic of the entire plant. There are two different plants in the pot producing two bloom stalks from each plant. Should I seperate these as I think it's kinda crowded in the pot.


Question: What caused the shriveled up buds and them falling off? Was this just transport damage? Or was the plant over heated during shipment? Also, will this continue to grow fresh buds that will bloom if I fertilize? Any specific fertilizer I should be using?


Question: What caused the yellowing of the leaf? Over watering? Do I need to remove it? If the contents of the pot are too moist, should I repot this with new medium now? Also, are these roots normal for a Phal? they are over growing the pot.

[brookn]

hey glitter,

I am a newbie also, but I think you may have bud blast (don't quote me on that). you can probably do a search on bud blast and find the info you are looking for, i have my own questions about it myself. I am thinking that the plants are a little crowded, and the yellow leaves are tricky, this can be caused by too much water or not enough, and also lack of good light. hopefully the experts can help you more than I can, you just seemed so worried that something was wrong. It doesn't look as though the plant is in imminent danger of dying, just needs some tlc. might try a search on yellow leaves also. i don't think it is a good idea to cut the leaf off. looks like you will probably be repotting them soon. i believe that it is normal for the roots to do that and they look okay to me kinda look a little dry. the blooms are really pretty though.

[Julie_M]

Hi Glitter,

In order:

1) yes, do repot both plants separately. You should be able to wait until they're done blooming, though. Be sure to repot them in pots that are JUST big enough to accommodate each plant's roots.

2) buds drying and falling off is referred to as bud blast. Reasons for it are numerous, but overheating is one. Avoid huge temperature extremes or swings and air drafts. The plant could grow more buds, but it will either extend the spike or branch. This is not a given, but can happen if you leave the spike have the flowers are done. No matter what, though, it will not reflower from those same nodes where the buds were, no matter which fertilizer you use. You can use a balanced fertilizer, but dilute it to about 1/4 the recommended strength.

3) again, any number of reasons. Phals do lose older (aka bottom) leaves as a matter of course. If it's just one, it's ok. Do keep an eye on the medium though and don't water again until it is dry, including in the middle. Do a search on this forum for "skewer method" and that'll help you determine when to water again.

Hope this helps.

Julie

The bud blast can be from going from a very humid atmosphere to a dry one, or because of a dozen other reasons. Losing the leaf may be because of how the plant was treated even before you got it. You say the lady brought it out and it was in water. Well, it might have been that way long before you ever saw it. The bamboo skewers will keep your watering on track.

[Glitter]

Yes! Looked it up...and that's it! A bud blast. So that quesiton is answered. I bet this was caused from changing climates. I'll hope this will cotinue to bloom with new buds.

[Glitter]

Thanks for all the replies! I'll keep you posted on this plant. I fear that it sat in water too long so I'm a little nervous of it's ability to make it.

[kmarch]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

Originally Posted by Glitter

Here's a pic of the entire plant. There are two different plants in the pot producing two bloom stalks from each plant. Should I seperate these as I think it's kinda crowded in the pot.

I would not seperate them because I think a larger display with more spikes and flowers is much more desirable than only one spike with a few flowers. I respectfully disagree with Julie on this point. There is no compelling reason to split the plants; no rot or disease that is endangering both of them. I have seen enoromous baskets of Phals - 6-8 plants in one huge hanging pot so they don't choke eachother out. I'd leave them as they are. A bigger display with more flowers is prettier.

Originally Posted by Glitter

What caused the shriveled up buds and them falling off? Was this just transport damage? Or was the plant over heated during shipment?

When a Phal's environment is changed (by bringing the plant home, or sometimes taking it to a show, or by any means) buds sometimes blast. It's just what they do. Even when I would bring a Phal home from my favorite nusery just that change in conditions would cause some bud loss. It is very typical and no cause for alarm.

Originally Posted by Glitter

Also, will this continue to grow fresh buds that will bloom if I fertilize?

No. Blooming isn't really a responce to getting fertilizer as much as it is a natural part of the plants annual growing and blooming cycle. After these flowers die off you may cut the spike back to the first "node" and get more flowers that way later. The "node" is a joint or "knuckle" on the flower stem. There are usually 2 or 3 of them. After the flowers all drop off, you can cut the flower stem just above the top node. Sometimes the plant will grow a new flower spike from that node. Sometimes the stem will just die off and after it is dead and dried up you can cut it off. When i do this, my Phal blooms twice a year. Otherwise they typically bloom once a year.

Originally Posted by Glitter

Any specific fertilizer I should be using?

I don't fertilize Phals because the mix I use (see below) contains lots of organic material. Opinions differ on this point.

Originally Posted by Glitter

What caused the yellowing of the leaf? Over watering? Do I need to remove it?

Phals, even big ones seldom have more than 4-8 leaves at once. By the look of it your plant is quite healthy, the rest of the leaves are green and crisp looking. Old leaves die off naturally and i notice your yellowing leaf is an old leaf. I believe it is just dying off naturally. Again, very typical and no cause for alarm. If it were a new leaf yellowing then there would be cause for concern.

Originally Posted by Glitter

If the contents of the pot are too moist, should I repot this with new medium now? Also, are these roots normal for a Phal? they are over growing the pot.

Phal roots will grow all over the place however i find that if they like the mix yuo have, they will head straight for the mix and grow down into it.

Get a good Phal culture sheet like the one posted on this forum or the one available on the American Orchid Society website. You will see that Phals like a gently and evenly moist potting mix. They dislike both drying out and beign water logged. The time to repot is after the blooms have all faded. Soak the pot and all for a few minutes to make the roots more pliable and less brittle. Pull the plant out of its pot and inspect the roots. Cut off anything that is grey-black or mushy. Healthy Phal roots are whitish-tanish-greenish, firm and crisp. I would choose a pot slightly larger than the one it is in now.

For my Phals i use a mix of medium fir bark, medium perelite, medium charcoal, medium coir chips, a little ground peat, and a little chopped sphagnum.

Once the plant has spent some time adjusting to your conditions, it will probably start to grow and with proper conditions will bloom again for you.

Happy Growing!

[Glitter]

Ok....The "node" is a joint or "knuckle" on the flower stem. There are usually 2 or 3 of them. After the flowers all drop off, you can cut the flower stem just above the top node. Sometimes the plant will grow a new flower spike from that node.

i can't figure out where the "node" is. Can you tell me where it is on this pic of this plant?

[kmarch]

The nodes are difficult to see on your pics but I did find one. First pic, far left inflorescence, between the two green clips. I've cropped it out and here it is:

[Glitter]

Thanks kmarch!

So they look like where flowers use to be? I'm assuming that's what it was? A place where it bloomed years ago?

I'm new at this and have a bunch of questions. I've tried searching the net for my answers, but nothing is out there that specifically answers my odd questions.

Thanks!

[tom499]

This is one of the reasons why i like to buy orchids out of flower. As long as you can trust the seller of their type etc i find its cheaper, because not being in flower brings down the price, and also, you wont have any chance of bud blast, where you would have to wait for the stem to die off and then wait for a new one, a flowering size plant would have been chopped back and already be readying itself to bloom again, so its not that long a wait

i also get a bigger satisfaction about a plant i've had to nurture for 6 months to get it to flower

[kmarch]

Glitter,

No, these are not where flowers used to be, on the contrary, they are where another flower stem could come from if your plant feels like producing. From the look of it, your inflorescences are new, this years, and not years old.

Feel free to ask your other questions.

-K

[Julie_M]

Kevin,

Believe me, disagreeing is what forums are all about! Glitter is a new grower and we want to augment his/her chances of succeeding. IMO, a larger pot to accommodate the roots of two plants = medium that stays wet longer, especially at the center = greater chance of root rot.

I do agree with your statement that a number of plants together makes a gorgeous statement. I tend to leave my plants in individual pots and will put blooming plants in a larger basket or pot and cover the tops of those pots with Spanish moss. Nothing permanent, and oh so flexible, and that display changes as different plants bloom.

Julie

[kmarch]

Last time I repotted my Phals (a few months ago) most of the roots were growing inside the pot but around the sides anyway, not in the middle of the pot. In nature Phal roots spread out far and wide, wrapping themselves around branches and things. From what I observe in cultivation they do the same thing but get diverted when they reach the inner wall of the pot. All this to say I would be suprised if there were very many roots in the middle of her pot. I bet most (all?) of them are just inside the pot wall and out of the pot. If Glitter's Phals fit this pattern there'd be no roots in the middle to loose.

I would not recommend a big pot, only one just large enough to accomodate the roots, it's a little difficult to judge but maybe only about an inch or so larger than the current pot. That small of a change will probably not make a significant difference in the amount of water held at the center. I'd recommend a translucent pot so the roots can be observed. In my pinion there's no compelling cultural reason to split the plants up. Phals can grow in large multi-plant clumps.

[slippery_biscuit]

After reading this thread last night, I realized I had put one of my Phal's in terrestrial mix a couple of months ago. I must have been confused (still learning) and was thinking it got the same treatment as a Paph. This morning I removed it and sure enough, all roots in the mix are gone.

On the positive side the plant (remarkably similar to Glitter's) has been blooming since the holidays, looks to be healthy, and has sprouted three aerial roots and more are on the way. Since the plant is not getting anything via the potting mix, perhaps this would be a good time to mount it? I've several other mounts, so no deviation in performance from me to care for it...

Glitter, regarding your shriveled buds.. another Phal of mine was purchased Dec '05. It bloomed for 5 months, then again in fall '06. It sent out a secondary spike which was blasted. It has since sent out another spike and the buds are now begining to open. This thing just seems to go and go.


Thanks, Jeff

[kmarch]

Dear slippery biscuit,

Can you clarify what you mean by "terrestrial" mix? If it is what I'm thinking of your Paphs should not be in it either. Paphs are not terrestrials. I grow both Paphs and Phals in the same mix: med. bark, med. coir chips, med. perilite, med. charcoal, chopped sphagnum, peat (just a little), and if I have it vailable, a bit of clean sand and shredded oak leaves.

[slippery_biscuit]

"Terrestrial Orchid Mix" is what the bag says. It has bits of this and that, but most significantly is that is has what I'll just call "dirt" in the mix. Looks like I'm still well settled in on the learning curve. I've read where the Paph's were described as "terrestrial" and the first bag of potting mix I bought for orchids said as above. Those to things plus a bunch of ignorance and there you have it. I reread the potting mixture description for Paph's and have seen the light. As in light, airy, moderate moisture retention... humus/mulch sorta thing. No dirt. Thanks for pointing this out and giving me something else to do tomorrow.

Now back to that Phal... maybe okay to mount it? I don't know what those roots would want to grab onto. I'll do a search for Phal mounting particulars but the timing is what I really don't know about, given the current root situation.

j

[kmarch]

Yes, the Phal. I have seen mounted Phals in both nuseries and in a few hobbiests' collections. I have never grown a mounted Phal myself. I'm told by both the hobbiests growing them and the nusery that fairly high humidity and more frequent watering is necessary. This would make sense as its needs are the same, it's still a Phal and needs a bit of moisture. There is a thread on this forum (I saw it a couple of months ago but can't seem to find it now) that has many pics of mounted Phals. They all had some material like sphagnum around the roots.