'sticky discharge' on a Phal.

[pikevi]

Hi,

While watering the Phals today I noticed that one leaf on one Phal had beads of exudes on both sides of the leaf. The discharge seems to be more on the under side, I believe.

I do remember seeing a thread mentioning about discharges( may be one of Cynthia's) but I could not locate it. I am sorry about that.

Is it a disease caused by a virus or parasite? Or is it another problem associated with plant growth? The plant is , in my eyes , healthy otherwise( healthy looking leaves and healthy roots). Though the number of flowers on the spike is pretty small (just 4 and two unopened buds)

I am attaching three photos. It was a bit hard to get a 'clear' contrast of the exudes since it is almost colourless. BTW, it is slightly sticky but NOT, gummy.

Any advice? ( or a direction to the thread that deealt with it), please.

[I will try to get a clear photo tomorrow(daytime) if it is not clear enough.]

[mayres]

I'm not suggesting that this is the case with your plant, but the only time I have noticed a sticky substance like this on my phals is when I was battling mealies. I'm thinking that maybe at the point of entry into the leaves veins to suck up plant juices the end result after they move on is a "bleeding" site? Hopefully someone has a non-pest reason for your issue?

[kmarch]

The sticky substance is essentially orchid sap. Sometimes you will find a little bead of sap on the tip of a perfectly leaf sometimes as it is growing. I see it usually on my Cattleyas. This is no cause for concern. Your situation seems a little different though as there are so many beads of it all along the length of the leaf. I suspect there is a very small sucking insect, perhaps a mite of some kind. The beads are forming where the critter fed. If this is what it is, the treatment is fairly benign. Give the plant a spray all over with somethign like an insecticidal soap (safe for indoors). Mites are usually fairly easy to get rid of. About 4 weeks ago i found a few in the crown of one of my Phals and got rid of them with only one application.

[pikevi]

Thank you, mayres and kmarch.

I will do that as soon as I get off the PC. It has already been 'quarantined' and sitting away from all others.

May be I will give all the other Phals a good spray this evening.

Thanks so much for the prompt responses

[kmarch]

Ah yes, quarentining is a good thing to do also. i sequester plants that have nasties.

[janet_a]

yeah, my phals get honeydew on the spikes, not the leaves. i'd be a little concerned about stuff on the leaves.

[pikevi]

Hi,

Under close examination I found that another phal had a few droplets of discharge too. Gave both a through bath in safer's soap.

I hope I don't have to destroy them One bloomed under my care!

[kmarch]

pikevi,

I would be really suprised if you had to destroy the plants, I really don't think it's this serious. I would also be suprised if the safer soap bath doesn't clear it up right away. The mites (if that is what they were) are so tiny you often can't see them just their aftermath (as you have seen). Keep an eye on them. Another bath in a week or so might be in order to clear up any survivors but I' think they'll be fine.

Cheers

[pikevi]

Thanks kmarch.

Won't the soap damage the roots? Or should I avoid spraying into the medium and onto the roots?

Is there any type of orchid where safer's soap should NOT be used?

[kmarch]

Well I spray the tops and bottoms of the leaves and some soap definitely does get on the exposed roots but it doesn't seem to have any effect on them, even the new root that is currently growing. I've not soaked a pot in it, just used it as a spray. I have safely used safer soap on Paphs, Cattleyas, Phals. I"ve not needed to use it on much else. It does seem to work quite well on the soft-bodied pests like mealies or mites, aphids too. It seems to have no effect on scale. So I'm afraid that's the extent of my safer soap expertise.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Mite post: Checking For Mites

[pikevi]

Thank you kmarch, Cynthia.

I will closely watch if it is going to spread.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

I highly recommend that you get a 4x to 10x jewelers loupe, or strong magnifying glass. Here is one that I like a lot: second item on page 74. http://www.surplusshed.com/catalog/ss_catalog_s06_w.pdf
You can inspect the underside of the leaves on all your plants to see which ones the mites like, and only have to treat these, tho I think that flat mites, the type you undoubtedly have, are a lot less picky about the plants they attack than spider mites. The good news is that they are bigger than spider mites and easier to see. But when you can actually see the bugs, it gives you a much better idea of the job ahead of you in getting rid of them.

[kmarch]

Cynthia,

You mentioned Neem Oil is harsh on more delicate-leaved orchids. What do you recommend for mites on those plants?

-Kevin

[pikevi]

Thank you Cynthia.

I had a vague recollection that there was such an entry. I could not ,however, locate it then.

I do have a couple of magnifiers.

Will update when the condition clears.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Kevin, I have only recently come to the realization, and with a good degree of certainty, that neem oil has been the cause of problems with some orchids. I am currently working on a pretty extensive spider mite attack in my GH. I am only treating the plants that actually have mites on them, and this is only a viable approach with a jewelers loupe to actually determine which are infected. So far, none of the infected orchids are the ones that are severely harmed by the neem. Infact, my first spraying of individual infected plants this time around was done with a neem/pyrethrin combo and no damage was seen. The orchids that don't like neem are all the fine terete leaved leaved orchids, Irrespective of genus, the fine leaved plants related to chrondroryncha (sp?) and cochleathes, and there is a warning from one orchid society about neem and Paphiopedilums, tho I am wondering if they are giving the neem credit for doing damage, when it may be the pyrethrin ib the combo ready mixes that are quite common that is really the bad actor for Paphs.

I have some Kelthane locked up in the basement, that I think works on mites, but am reserving that for when I need something other than neem. Every time you try something new on a highly mixed collection, something seems to always have a hard time with it. For non-mites pests, imadaclopride seems to be pretty safe on everything, with a few flowers possibly fading early.

For what it is worth, spider mites don't seem to like Catts, Vandas, Oncidiums (tho still checking because of the large variation in Oncidiums), the tough leaved Dens including nobile, Phaius, and a variety of other species, too numerous to mention.

Those that spider mites really like are the thin leaved Dens (and boy do they), Cymbidiums, Sobralias, Cycnoches family, evergreen Calanthes, and I am still searching thru the GH and will undoubtedly find more.

[pikevi]

Just an update:

The discharge is gone on both plants.

Just washed it with 'safer's soap and let it dry. Applied neem oil with a cotton swab. And when I checked today there was no oozing at all.

Thanks for the advice, kmarch, mayres and Cynthia.

Attaching a photo of the 'cleared' leaf.